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Unread 03-27-2012, 10:30 AM   #31
alex100
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this is all i have to say..


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Unread 03-27-2012, 10:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshw301 View Post
Hands down, the '96 wrangler was the best.
Yeah, but the prices on them are crazy, with the rarity and all..
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Unread 03-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1998tjsport View Post
I'm not saying they are a ton more money to mod, but most things cost at least as much as the other jeeps, Sometimes more.
The parts are the same price, but you need a lot fewer of them. I want to run 35"s on my TJ someday, so I'm looking at $3000+ worth of new axles, either a new lift or a highline/fender kit worth $1000 or so, SYE kit, CV driveshafts, probably steering upgrades...all said and done, it'd probably cost me as much to put 35"s under my Jeep as I paid for it in the first place, doing it right.

JK? 3.5" lift kit, and new gears if you got one with a low gear ratio.


Quote:
To me if two out of the 6 years in production they had serious engine issues I will consider it unreliable, same thing with the 05 and 06 TJs with the OPDA issue. They can be a great motor but Chrysler some how made it bad.
In both cases, Chrysler didn't make it bad-parts suppliers made them bad. But not much consolation to those affected.

You can definitely build a more off-road capable rig from scratch with a TJ or YJ. $9000 worth of low-mileage TJ and $9000 worth of quality suspension and tires is still less than a good used early JK, before the mods start. But, money aside, the JK is, in every empirical measure, the most capable vehicle Jeep has ever built.
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Unread 03-27-2012, 11:23 AM   #34
1998tjsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
The parts are the same price, but you need a lot fewer of them. I want to run 35"s on my TJ someday, so I'm looking at $3000+ worth of new axles, either a new lift or a highline/fender kit worth $1000 or so, SYE kit, CV driveshafts, probably steering upgrades...all said and done, it'd probably cost me as much to put 35"s under my Jeep as I paid for it in the first place, doing it right.

JK? 3.5" lift kit, and new gears if you got one with a low gear ratio.




In both cases, Chrysler didn't make it bad-parts suppliers made them bad. But not much consolation to those affected.

You can definitely build a more off-road capable rig from scratch with a TJ or YJ. $9000 worth of low-mileage TJ and $9000 worth of quality suspension and tires is still less than a good used early JK, before the mods start. But, money aside, the JK is, in every empirical measure, the most capable vehicle Jeep has ever built.
I am not disputing its capability, I agree it is indeed a very capable jeep. But it still costs the most and has the worst track record for reliability. Still a great jeep and I will own a JKUR one day. I am just saying its not a dead reliable as the old 4.0s.
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Unread 03-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #35
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One thing that no one else mentioned, but kind of danced around: The JK is larger. If you want more room, it's more comfortable. It might be a problem on some trails that are sized to barely let older Jeeps through.

Re: the 3.8L problems., Outside of poor parts quality on a couple of years, what makes them unreliable? I've found most problems with "unreliable" engines in other platforms had to do with maintenance (more like lack thereof) than any inherent problem.
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Unread 03-27-2012, 11:01 PM   #36
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I am not getting the unreliable sentiment from people that do not own a JK or have first hand experience with a JK to make that broad of an assesment.

Latency in the throttle by wire is the perceived weakness of the engine.

Poor factory gearing choices exacerbate the automatic transmission's annoyances. Regear the differentials and the problem is solved. Again not a problem with engine.

A small number of engines were assembled in Mexico in late 2007 into early 2008. Of this small number, a small percentage of them had their rings installed with the end gaps all aligned resulting in higher oil consumption, which incidentally is covered by warranty which begs the question, what's the problem?

The only area of real I reliability is the use of both metric and standard fasteners which lead to some standard bolts being in metric holes and vice versa. Again, not an engine problem but instead a chassis problem easily fixed.

My previous Jeep was a 95 YJ with 4.0L automatic. It was much simpler and easier to work on with an abundance of space under the hood. I miss those characteristics. On the other hand I have taken my JK across the country which I never could in my YJ due to harsh bucking horse ride, deafening in cab noise, and leaking top.

The 4.0L was a good engine, but was far from perfect despite what many people claim.

I can't get past the ugly interior, especially the box gauge cluster of a TJ to own one. It is butt ugly and not well laid out. I like the interior of a CJ, when it is not covered in rust. My JK interior is nice, almost too nice. I have been taken small steps to bring back some of the utilitarian feel to it.

I had horrible death wobble for a long time in my JK which made me hate it. I finally fixed it and did some things and recently fell in love with it.

I can do more with my JK because it is more versatile. My YJ was horrible with towing but my JK is decent.

JK- easy to live with on a daily basis, go anywhere do anything
YJ- weekend toy, possible secondary vehicle
TJ- somewhere in the middle, often owned by people with JK envy who start countless threads about JK owners being snooty and not waving

None of these Jeeps are flawless. None of these Jeeps are POS. You can't go wrong with any of them as long as stay away from 4 cylinder models. Sorry 4 banger guys, but the 4 cylinder engines limit so much what you can realistically do.

I once knew a guy with 4 cylinder YJ with a top speed of 40 mph. His tires were only around 31" plus or minus an inch or two.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 01:38 AM   #37
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I use 5th gear all the time and do an indicated 60mph no problem on the freeway as long as it is not a big hill, and that is with 33's stock gearing and the TBI 2.5 not the multi port. I don't think the 4 banger was that guys problem, unless I have the only 4 banger that makes decent power.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 09:11 AM   #38
gunshw301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot
I am not getting the unreliable sentiment from people that do not own a JK or have first hand experience with a JK to make that broad of an assesment.

Latency in the throttle by wire is the perceived weakness of the engine.

Poor factory gearing choices exacerbate the automatic transmission's annoyances. Regear the differentials and the problem is solved. Again not a problem with engine.

A small number of engines were assembled in Mexico in late 2007 into early 2008. Of this small number, a small percentage of them had their rings installed with the end gaps all aligned resulting in higher oil consumption, which incidentally is covered by warranty which begs the question, what's the problem?

The only area of real I reliability is the use of both metric and standard fasteners which lead to some standard bolts being in metric holes and vice versa. Again, not an engine problem but instead a chassis problem easily fixed.

My previous Jeep was a 95 YJ with 4.0L automatic. It was much simpler and easier to work on with an abundance of space under the hood. I miss those characteristics. On the other hand I have taken my JK across the country which I never could in my YJ due to harsh bucking horse ride, deafening in cab noise, and leaking top.

The 4.0L was a good engine, but was far from perfect despite what many people claim.

I can't get past the ugly interior, especially the box gauge cluster of a TJ to own one. It is butt ugly and not well laid out. I like the interior of a CJ, when it is not covered in rust. My JK interior is nice, almost too nice. I have been taken small steps to bring back some of the utilitarian feel to it.

I had horrible death wobble for a long time in my JK which made me hate it. I finally fixed it and did some things and recently fell in love with it.

I can do more with my JK because it is more versatile. My YJ was horrible with towing but my JK is decent.

JK- easy to live with on a daily basis, go anywhere do anything
YJ- weekend toy, possible secondary vehicle
TJ- somewhere in the middle, often owned by people with JK envy who start countless threads about JK owners being snooty and not waving

None of these Jeeps are flawless. None of these Jeeps are POS. You can't go wrong with any of them as long as stay away from 4 cylinder models. Sorry 4 banger guys, but the 4 cylinder engines limit so much what you can realistically do.

I once knew a guy with 4 cylinder YJ with a top speed of 40 mph. His tires were only around 31" plus or minus an inch or two.
You had a great post up until you mentioned the 2.5, then you sound like a hypocrite. You own one? Have first hand experience (other than your buddy who might or might not have had 31's or maybe could get up to 40mph.

Why make a post saying [QUOTE="Prot"]I am not getting the unreliable sentiment from people that do not own a JK or have first hand experience with a JK to make that broad of an assessment.

Then do the same about the 2.5l. No its not as powerful as the 4.0, but it can travel down the road at a decent clip on 31's " plus or minus an inch or two. "

To quote you again " regear the differentials and the problem is solved."


Sorry I am already having a bad day and for some reason your post struck a cord. No hard feelings, just had to say my piece.



For some reason the quote bubbles got messed up, but you get the gist.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #39
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Unread 03-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #40
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So Anticanman which one is best? Wait I know!! It's whatever one you are driving, right?
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Unread 03-28-2012, 09:30 AM   #41
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So Anticanman which one is best? Wait I know!! It's whatever one you are driving, right?
I actually stated the JK is my favorite even though I have a strong sentimental attachment to the Yj. The tj is better than the Yj in the rocks but the dash makes me feel like I'm being crushed.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #42
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I can fix my YJ with scavenged parts from the lawn mower...

So easy to work on..

Besides I would take any Jeep that's paid for.

PAYMENTS SUCK!
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Unread 03-28-2012, 06:33 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot
TJ- somewhere in the middle, often owned by people with JK envy who start countless threads about JK owners being snooty and not waving
When I bought my jeep I had the chance to buy any jeep old or new. Only 2 jeeps grabbed my soul, the scrambler and the LJ. If the jk had a model that had a 103" WB I would have considered that. I don't care for a v6. I never have. I grew up on an inline 6, bought inline 6's and can work on and with them. Give me 180 hp in a 6 and my soul is free....... Besides the LJ shares some parts from AMC, the jk is German.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 07:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
Besides the LJ shares some parts from AMC, the jk is German.
The only thing that's German in the JK is the NSG370 6-speed manual tranny (sourced from Mercedes), which was used in later model TJs and LJs as well. That means all 6-speed manual LJs are German too, according to what you're saying.
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Unread 03-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #45
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Sorry the four cylinder guys get butthurt so easily.

I was expecting flack for criticism of TJ interiors instead.

I am curious about rear wheel horsepower and torque of a four cylinder.

What I meant by not understanding unreliability from non firsthand accounts is I have no idea what people are talking about about the 3.8L not being reliable especially not saying what is unreliable about it. If they were actual owners or had friends that owned a JK then perhaps they could enlighten me on what is unreliable about and perhaps I should be on the lookout for.
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