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Unread 08-12-2013, 06:36 AM   #1
TimboTJ
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Tire wear with 2" lift....need a adj. track bar?

Tired of my tires cupping and going out of round. Seems like if I miss one rotation and let it go beyond 4-5000 miles, they will cup and go out of round and forever shake between 50-55 mph. (running BFG 33 x 10.5, first go around was the A/T's, now the KM2's). Only got about 31,000 miles out of the A/T's, but that was my fault as I over inflated them. Now, the KM2's are at 45,000 miles and probably don't have enough tread to pass the next inspection next May.
But both sets have cupped and as I was told, were basically "un-balance able" as they went out of round.

So, when I got my first set of BFG's, I installed a 2" coil space lift, 1" body lift, and a 1" motor mount lift. Replaced the shocks at the same time. No vibes coming from the back end.....BUT, should I have installed an adjustable track bar to get the axles back where they should be? Will this increase the mileage of my tires and will they no longer cup? The stock set of tires that came with the Jeep brand new (prior to my lift install) from the dealer never cupped. Are the axles no longer pointed exactly straight ahead? It sees very little off road use.

2002 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5-spd. Dana 44 rear end, , 3.73's. 2" coil spacer lift, 1" body lift, 1" MM lift.

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Unread 08-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #2
jay-h
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While people will debate the value of track bars, it's safe to say that a stock bar is not good with a lift.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 11:14 AM   #3
TimboTJ
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Care to elaborate?
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Unread 08-12-2013, 12:02 PM   #4
Unlimited04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimboTJ View Post
Tired of my tires cupping and going out of round. Seems like if I miss one rotation and let it go beyond 4-5000 miles, they will cup and go out of round and forever shake between 50-55 mph. (running BFG 33 x 10.5, first go around was the A/T's, now the KM2's). Only got about 31,000 miles out of the A/T's, but that was my fault as I over inflated them. Now, the KM2's are at 45,000 miles and probably don't have enough tread to pass the next inspection next May.
But both sets have cupped and as I was told, were basically "un-balance able" as they went out of round.

So, when I got my first set of BFG's, I installed a 2" coil space lift, 1" body lift, and a 1" motor mount lift. Replaced the shocks at the same time. No vibes coming from the back end.....BUT, should I have installed an adjustable track bar to get the axles back where they should be? Will this increase the mileage of my tires and will they no longer cup? The stock set of tires that came with the Jeep brand new (prior to my lift install) from the dealer never cupped. Are the axles no longer pointed exactly straight ahead? It sees very little off road use.

2002 TJ Sport, 4.0L, 5-spd. Dana 44 rear end, , 3.73's. 2" coil spacer lift, 1" body lift, 1" MM lift.
the track bar has no effect on tire wear. did you have an alignment done after you installed the lift? if so, post those specs. if not, why the hell not?

along those lines, did you correct caster with adjustable lower control arms or cam bolts? did you reset toe-in? what's your camber?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
While people will debate the value of track bars, it's safe to say that a stock bar is not good with a lift.
the stock bar is perfectly fine with a 2" lift. in fact, its the best option for most people since aftermarket front track bars will cause major interferences with the diff or tie-rod. recently, there has been one aftermarket track bar shown to clear without the need for bumpstop extensions, but it can't be adjusted short enough for a 2" lift.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 12:47 PM   #5
TimboTJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
the track bar has no effect on tire wear. did you have an alignment done after you installed the lift? if so, post those specs. if not, why the hell not?

Last alignment:
Left Front: Caster 6.15 deg. Camber: -0.45 Toe: 0.17
Right Font: Caster 6.09 deg Camber: -0.47 Toe: 0.15

Left Rear: Camber: -0.5 Toe: 0.45
Right Rear: Camber: -0.6 Toe: -0.10



along those lines, did you correct caster with adjustable lower control arms or cam bolts? did you reset toe-in? what's your camber?

Don't think caster has been adjusted, it is slightly different before lift, but both before and after in within spec.

Rear wheels seem to be point to the right. How do you adjust toe and camber for rear wheels?


the stock bar is perfectly fine with a 2" lift. in fact, its the best option for most people since aftermarket front track bars will cause major interferences with the diff or tie-rod. recently, there has been one aftermarket track bar shown to clear without the need for bumpstop extensions, but it can't be adjusted short enough for a 2" lift.
It just seems to me that any lift will pivot the axle to one side thus no longer pointing straight ahead.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 12:54 PM   #6
Agent620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimboTJ View Post
It just seems to me that any lift will pivot the axle to one side thus no longer pointing straight ahead.
It still points straight ahead, its just off to one side more than the other after lifting. You would have to have different length control arms in order for it to not point straight ahead. The pivoting is more the axle rotating due to lifting and that affects the toe in. Which is fixed by an alignment.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 01:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimboTJ View Post
It just seems to me that any lift will pivot the axle to one side thus no longer pointing straight ahead.
the axle still points straight, and the axles being off center has nothing to do with tire wear. the only place the off-center axle changes alignment is in thrust angle, and that change is still very minimal.

an off-center axle is mostly an aesthetic thing, and a clearance issue depending on tire size and wheel backspacing.

6+ caster is good for 33s. Camber is fine.

Toe is usually where the tire wear issue of cupping usually comes from. It may be out of spec since your last alignment. You can check it yourself, read here. You should also inspect the ball joints and unit bearings to rule those out.
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Unread 08-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #8
TimboTJ
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But I still think the rear axle HAS to point off center because the axle pivots with a coil spacer lift and stock track bar.......since the rear control arms attach to the frame forward of the axle, the axle HAS to pivot from this point (due to the "shortening" of the rear track bar with the 2" coil spacer lift), thus pointing them off center.....but probably just a tiny amount.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 03:58 PM   #9
ShogunTJ04
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A 2" spacer does move the rear axle by about a half and inch. I've never rotated my tires. Every time I rotate my tires, I get the shimmy around 55mph. I still got about 40k out of my BFG ATs. I'm probably going to get about 25k with my Interco Boggers, but that's a tire issue and they're mounted with the tread in reverse in a poor attempt to reduce wear.

I'd agree that it's probably misalignment. I didn't have an alignment done after I had my lift installed and it drove like crap and shook uncontrollably until I had it Road Force Balanced and aligned properly.
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Unread 08-14-2013, 06:17 AM   #10
TimboTJ
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Is there a way to align rear axle? Like a cam bolt on the control arms, or somehow shortening or lengthening the rear control arms?
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Unread 08-14-2013, 10:08 AM   #11
Unlimited04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimboTJ View Post
Is there a way to align rear axle? Like a cam bolt on the control arms, or somehow shortening or lengthening the rear control arms?
you can only adjust thrust angle, pinion angle and axle position relative to the frame with adjustable control arms and an adjustable rear track bar.

you can not adjust toe or camber alignment, which is what effects tire wear in the rear.
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Unread 08-16-2013, 11:10 PM   #12
AEVBrute
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do you have a tire that is too wide for the wheel?

when you lift, the front axle will normally shift to one side, most time the passenger side. the adjustable track bars or track bar extension or relocation pieces made will move the axle back. They make them for the front and rear on a TJ. The axle shifting will make the relationship between the front and rear tires change almost like the vehicle is dog legging. You can imagine what that can do.

Out of round is usually a tire that hops and is not a result of the vehicle but as a result of the tires manufacturing.

Take it to a good front end person and check the castor and of course tow. The machine will also tell you if the front and rear tires are running parallel. To give you an example my castor was so screwed up that when I towed the vehicle like behind an RV the steering wheel would not recoil when I turned and then went straight again. It is like a shopping cart with a wheel turing the wrong way. I am sure you get the pic. They make 2" and large adjustable track bars. axles move side to side starting with a 2 inch lift that is why they rate the track bar by inches of lift.
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