Rambo1965's Water Injection Thread - Page 3 - JeepForum.com

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post #31 of 48 Old 07-10-2011, 05:40 PM
prosneek
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I am going to be honest. That doesn't mean that i am ignorant. Y'all used a couple of big word in there and got very technical and scientific with this. Not being an engineer or having the in depth experience as some of you, i didn't understand some of what was said. But what can it really hurt to try this? I used to drag race and we had "cold buckets". They were a box designed to hold ice and your fuel line would run through it before going to the carb. This would cool the gas and help with combustion. If that worked, then why not this? Isn't it basically the same idea just in a different way? Cooling the air/fuel mixture? They have nitrous purge lines to vent off the hot nitrous.

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post #32 of 48 Old 07-10-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosneek View Post
I am going to be honest. That doesn't mean that i am ignorant. Y'all used a couple of big word in there and got very technical and scientific with this. Not being an engineer or having the in depth experience as some of you, i didn't understand some of what was said. But what can it really hurt to try this? I used to drag race and we had "cold buckets". They were a box designed to hold ice and your fuel line would run through it before going to the carb. This would cool the gas and help with combustion. If that worked, then why not this? Isn't it basically the same idea just in a different way? Cooling the air/fuel mixture? They have nitrous purge lines to vent off the hot nitrous.
Not the same thing.

Running the fuel thru a cooler makes the fuel slightly denser. Denser fuel means a little extra fuel gets into the cylinders.

Mixing water with the air gets you that much less fuel into the cylinders. It's like cutting Scotch with water.
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post #33 of 48 Old 08-20-2011, 12:32 AM
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Well I've got an extra $25 lying around. If this works then it pays for its self in fuel savings. I'm going to see if I can get to Lowes this week and get this going on my 91 yj with the 4.0.

Ill post up my results.
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post #34 of 48 Old 08-20-2011, 07:40 PM
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Wow, Just wow.

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post #35 of 48 Old 08-21-2011, 05:01 PM
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So my thought is you need vapor for the system to work correctly right? Well why not hook it directly to the exhaust instead of the open air? The heat from the exhaust should force the water into a sort of boil, and wouldn't that make the system more effective? Does it ascend with better atomization or does it just remain the same?

And on the atomization note, would it be better if the water was atomized more? You could use an injector bought off of craigslist for $30 or so bucks, or even a new one from the store. Would that be better for the mpg?
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post #36 of 48 Old 08-21-2011, 08:17 PM
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Just got back from the hardware store with all the stuff to get this going (minus the glass jar)

I've also found an answer for zmcmil its not specifically for a Jeep but the concept is the same.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
Its generally for turbo charged or super charged vehicles but stock vehicles still see the benefits as you see with rambo
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post #37 of 48 Old 08-25-2011, 09:06 PM
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But in a turbo car, you INJECT the liquid water directly into the intake stream at high pressure. You don't hope it evaporates as you create a vacuum leak to pull air through it.

In racing situations, a proper water injection setup will go through a gallon of water in less than a couple hours; not a cup a week.

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post #38 of 48 Old 08-25-2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmcmil2121 View Post
So my thought is you need vapor for the system to work correctly right? Well why not hook it directly to the exhaust instead of the open air? The heat from the exhaust should force the water into a sort of boil, and wouldn't that make the system more effective? Does it ascend with better atomization or does it just remain the same?

And on the atomization note, would it be better if the water was atomized more? You could use an injector bought off of craigslist for $30 or so bucks, or even a new one from the store. Would that be better for the mpg?
Wow, you might be on to something. Maybe you can take it a step further, and just run the exhaust pipe right back into the carb. 100% recirculation for the best mileage.
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post #39 of 48 Old 09-15-2011, 12:15 AM
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This is a cool idea. I might have to try it and see if it helps out at all. If it doesn't then no harm done.... Hopefully but if it breaks something then I can upgrade to something better.
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post #40 of 48 Old 09-16-2011, 12:06 AM
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I've gone through one tank so far (enjoying the extra power. Its quite noticable)

So far I went from 14 mpg to 16 (that was not caring about gas) this tank I'm going to not gas it everywhere...

Pree water driving nice I could push 15.5 I'm looking forward to seeing it now. Will update in a week or so.

By the way, this was on my 1991 yj with the fule injected 4.0
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post #41 of 48 Old 09-17-2011, 10:24 AM
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I was going to stay out of this, but can't. It's early on a Saturday and I'm bored.

Since you cannot supersaturate the air, you're getting no more water vapor in the air than you are on a day that the humidity is high. It's simple science. Humidity is the amount of water vapor in the air, and you can't get above a certain threshold. By reasoning of this post, on a humid day (hot, because warm air holds more moisture) you should get better mileage than on a dry day.

Bet if you just took off the water canister thing and left the open tube there sucking air, you'll gain the same results. I'd test, but I don't have an archaic 4.0.

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post #42 of 48 Old 09-17-2011, 11:10 AM
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An engine with EFI is always going to run at stoichiometric once the motor goes into closed loop operation. If there is a vacuum leak, then the O2 sensor sees a lean condition and richens the mixture accordingly. So while a vacuum leak might increase the engine rpm it will not 'lean out' the mixture. well maybe for a few milliseconds LOL.
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post #43 of 48 Old 11-30-2011, 03:44 PM
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so i've got a 95 yj with the 4.0 engine. i was hoping to test this out and see if i can raise my 12 mpg freeway by juuuust a little but when i looked at my intake i saw no unused vacuum ports. should i put a splitter on one of the existing and give this a shot?
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post #44 of 48 Old 11-30-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyoyo109 View Post
so i've got a 95 yj with the 4.0 engine. i was hoping to test this out and see if i can raise my 12 mpg freeway by juuuust a little but when i looked at my intake i saw no unused vacuum ports. should i put a splitter on one of the existing and give this a shot?
No.

As in no, you shouldn't give this a shot. Water injection has some benefits; water vapor injection does not. Fortunately, this isn't really either; it's nothing more than a complicated method of creating an intentional vacuum leak. You can do the same thing by taking a thumbtack to one of your vacuum hoses.

Good luck!

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post #45 of 48 Old 09-18-2015, 09:17 PM
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While this isn't an ideal set up it DOES add some humidity to the intake charge. There are better ways, and a good system can be built for under a hundred bucks that rivals the commercial systems. All they take us a used fuel pump, a fuel injector from a multiport system and a simple 555 ic circuit configured as a pulse width modulator (pwm) to drive the fuel injector, which is used as the vapor injector, An optoisolator between the pwm and the Tachometer output of the ignition system. Depending on the injector you are using, you may need to set up a transistor switch on the output of the pwm, between a switched ( by your ignition switch) 12 volt source and the injector. Then you set the system to spray once per RPM, and adjust the width of the pulse for optimum performance. For those of you who are lost on this info it is easily found all across the internet, on various electronics sites. Just remember, you are working with a 12volt negative ground power source so the circuits you make may need a 5 volt regulator added to their input power. Again, this is extremely simple. If you are building a vapor injector and expect peak performance, and low cost, the research is well worth it. The funny part is this is actually how both your fuel injection and ignition systems function in a very simplified manner, in today's vehicles, so its worth the learning experience even if you are just researching it.
Now going back into this dinosauric thread:
Humidity DOES increase horsepower and fuel efficiency, Ask anyone who tracks weather conditions and fuel economy, particularly if they live on the western shore of an extremely large body of water such as one of the great lakes or on the eastern sea board. Next for it to work most efficiently water vapor needs to be injected at the throttle body, On forced induction engines (super or turbo charged) it works to cool the intake charge which is known to heat up due to compression and exhaust heat transfer on the turbo charged units as well as chilling the burn of the fuel, increasing the burn time of the fuel, creating more power per engine stroke, which also results in increased MPG (hint for you, folks it Miles Per Gallon. that already plural so you don't add an "s" to it, that just makes you look dumb). In most instances, you wont need it in winter time, due to increased O2 content in the atmosphere (cold air is dense hence every cubic inch of air below 32 degrees contains a substantially greater amount of O2 than a cubic inch of air at 70 degrees, when the warmer air is expanded), this is why cold air intakes work to increase power and fuel economy. However if you wish to use it year round, when temperatures drop below freezing, just use the blue windshield washer fluid/antifreeze. I experimented with water vapor injection back in the seventies. The lack of reasonable cost injectors was the single greatest issue. The setups that depend on vacuum or utilize nozzles that shoot a jet of water don't function in optimal manners, and always end up problematical. Using a fuel injector that sprays a micromist such as one designed for a multiple port system does, literally sprays a fog, not a jet. A system set up as I described, can inject a constant fog or be adjusted down to literally nothing at all. If your engine needs more vapor, its simple to add an second third or even fourth injector in parallel to the original, and it doesn't depend on engine vacuum, rather, it works off of engine speed, making it supply the vapor in a consistent manner.

And YES I know its an old thread, but with the volatility of fuel costs today this thread needs a very serious revisit.
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