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Unread 05-10-2012, 10:39 AM   #1
DCunh00k3d
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Lose control/Dampner/Stabalizer/ETC ETC

Hi all, I am new, but feel that I needed to be heard! I AM SOOOO FRUSTRATED and was wondering if anybody has had the same problem! I LOVE JEEPS, my 3rd one, but unfortunately have never been so embarrassed or disgusted to own an American made car
I recently just submitted this to Jeep, obviously you can feel my frustration since this has been going on since late last year=

To Whom It May Concern,


I am writing you regarding my 2010 Jeep Wrangler 4 door Sahara. I have never had so many problems with any vehicle, be that new or old. I am so disappointed to say the least and am at a lost for words.
I have had several problems regarding this vehicle, especially with the dealership/service and the remarks. The treatment is disrespectful, mainly I feel b/c I am a woman, and manly b/c I feel they assume I do not know about cars.
My most recent occurrence can date back as far as late Oct/early November of 2011... I brought my vehicle in and stated I did not feel safe in this car, and that it would sometimes lose control out of nowhere, then resume back. They checked it, and said they couldn't find anything. I brought it in twice more, again nothing, where I had one of the service managers say to me, "If the computer can't find it, we can't help you!' I asked him, "When I end up in a ditch, will your computer let you know?" I emphasized how I did not feel safe and felt endangered for my life driving this vehicle. Also, I had complained that my fog lights were out, and a faulty was found in the switch, they repaired it, and I asked, "Couldn't my fog lights have gone out prematurely due to a faulty on your end?", They said, "Yes, however, it is not our problem." I had also said that one of my lighters wasn't working, they said it needed a fuse and it would cost me $35.00, I refused since I know they cost 0.15, however when I got back into the vehicle, both lighters were out now, and when I brought it to the managers attention, he said, "Do you want us to fix it?", I said, "Yes, of course, I need at least one charger (lighter)!" He said, verbatim, "Ok, but it's going to cost ya!" I was livid and expressed it. The nerve to say something was going to cost me that was working when I pulled in and he knew it and said that anyway!! What a low-life! And this is who represents your company!
Now, back to my original and most important dangerous problem, FOURTH VISIT, I brought a male with me, and he went under the carriage in front of the service manager, he pointed out that the carriage was loose and walked him over to a new Jeep, they were tight and sturdy. Also pointed out that the axle seal was leaking. Now, let me ask you, why would it take me FOUR VISITS, MANY MANY MANY MONTHS LATER, MANY MILES LATER AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, MY SAFETY AT HANDS for a complete stranger to find this and point it out to your men who are trained qualified technicians? Is it because the computer didn't read it? Shouldn't the mere fact that I stated, "I feel my life is in danger when I drive this thing. (couldn't be verbatim)" be substantial enough? Or does Chrystler Corp not care about the safety and well being of their customers? Does it take something to go terribly wrong as in the Toyota incident to try to cover it up, fix it, correct it? By then, it would be too late for many unfortunate families, perhaps even your own.
Now, they said they fixed this! Ha, I am at a lost of words, and do not know what to do, any suggestions? I cannot turn my car to the right and drive without it shaking
I am not happy and I believe this goes under a lemon law, never mind that I cannot drive it, fear something will happen to me and refuse to go back to the dealership.
I will not even tell you about the past and when I was called a liar when the men dented my car yet then they realized they did do it, or about how I left my car there b/c they told me to bring it back on Monday cause the part would be in, yet after dropping it off at 7 in the morning, I get a phone call at 4 in the afternoon that they have to order the part? I had no vehicle for days. I can go on and on, but I want to focus on the here and now, b/c I am done, this is my 2nd 4door since the production in 2007, not bad, huh? AND THIS IS WHAT I GET? My family has purchased several vehicles from this company, but refuse to ever again. My poor father to have his daughter who he knows is tough as nails call him crying because the car lost control for no reason, no speeding, no bad weather conditions, no winds, no turns, just a flat surface and fear. It is a joke to say we can't help you unless the computer tells us. That is how you treat a human being?
I get 15.2 miles per gallon, I have also complained about that, they said, "They can't help me, the year the vehicle was made, the engine was too small." Ohhh.
I can go on and on, however, why bother?
I need this problem corrected immediately.

......... I AM AT A LOST

Can anyone please help me? Has anyone else ever had this problem?

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Unread 05-12-2012, 07:47 AM   #2
jay-h
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I would guess you wrote this while you were very upset. However if you want to see some action from the company, you probably need to make your case. Here are a few thoughts.

Separate your problems. It seems you have at least 4: dealer responsiveness, electrical issue, oil leak and handling problem. Address each one separately.

Try to give at least approx dates (from your receipt if you don't remember). Include the facts: who you talked to, what you told them, what they told you and the results of that service.

You need to describe the issues more clearly to the reader. Does it 'wander', does it jerk eratically when you hit a pothole, is the problem worse in the rain etc.If you feel that looseness is an issue, you might consider paying a private mechanic to evaluate it and give you a written report (be honest about your intention when dealing with the mechanic).

Many states have lemon laws, but you need to check how to use them. There are often a number of steps that you need to perform first.

Keep your correspondence with the company to the point and business like.
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Unread 05-12-2012, 08:03 AM   #3
paul84043
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Sorry for your experience, but I feel that you should be blaming the dealer, not Chrysler. Also, you could have called or taken your jeep to any other jeep dealer and they would have honored your warranty and from the sound of it, treated you better.
The suspension issue sounds like classic death wobble, which is nasty, is dangerous, and is typically caused by loose suspension components.
Vehicles are complicated machines and even new ones have problems. It's all in how the dealerships deal with these problems that makes return customers.
I would file a complaint against the dealer clearly stating times, dates, names, And specific grievances. And then I would take my business to another dealer.
I do think that a certain mindset will try to write off a female, but there are great dealers out there who do seem to care.
Did you specify which dealership this is? Maybe someone here can recommend a different dealer in your area..
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Unread 05-14-2012, 01:58 AM   #4
mcdull
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I think unfortunately Chrysler had already stated that "Death Wobble" is normal, might be it should be Chrysler to be blamed on.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/20/j...s-of-congress/
All manufacturer vehicles equipped with a solid axle are susceptible to vibration and, if experienced, it can be corrected by performing minor maintenance items, such as properly balancing or changing the tires, or a front end alignment, installing a new steering dampener, or by tightening or replacing other loose or worn parts. In fact, most reported incidents – in all manufacturer vehicles equipped with or without a solid axle – are often linked to poorly installed or maintained after-market equipment, such as lift kits, oversized tires, etc.
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Unread 05-14-2012, 03:14 AM   #5
WhiteOut
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Quote:
All manufacturer vehicles equipped with a solid axle are susceptible to vibration and, if experienced, it can be corrected by performing minor maintenance items, such as properly balancing or changing the tires, or a front end alignment, installing a new steering dampener, or by tightening or replacing other loose or worn parts.
This is 100% true. Except for the steering stabilizer part, a SS will never sure death wobble and is not needed for proper or safe operation of any vehicle.

Last edited by WhiteOut; 05-14-2012 at 03:29 AM.. Reason: Rest was pointless as OP wont care.
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Unread 05-14-2012, 03:56 AM   #6
andy02
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I think your biggest issue is lack of specifics. Saying "I don't feel safe in this vehicle" tells the tech nothing. I don't feel safe in a Smart Car. Does that mean that there is a problem with the vehicle? Going in and giving the tech specifics gives him/her direction. If the vehicle wanders, they are going to look at alignment. If the vehicle shakes violently after hitting a bump, they are going to look at front suspension and steering. If the vehicle shakes all the time, they are going to look at driveline.

As for the lighter issue, if it is a fuse and you know it is a fuse, why not just replace the fuse? They aren't expensive as you said yourself and the dealer is going to charge you 0.5 hours labor as well as the typical shop fees. It doesn't matter that it took the tech all of 5 minutes to change the fuse and check to make sure that it is now working. The minimum rates are set. You getting upset is not going to change that.

How long had the front end components been loose? Pointing it out on the fourth visit after "many months" leads me to believe that the problem wasn't all that severe. If it was, you would have been into the dealer far more often. The dealer probably felt the same way which again, gives them very little to go on. At that point, you are just the angry woman that comes in every once in a while complaining that your vehicle doesn't "feel safe."

As for the leaky axle seal. How long was it leaking? How bad is/was said leak? Being that you were talking about front suspension components being loose at that time, I would assume you are also referencing the front axle? Was the seal fixed or do you even know?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 05-14-2012, 06:10 AM   #7
paul84043
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Also, to blindly carpetbomb the entire solid axle world and simply say that Death Wobble is "normal" is completely retarded. There are MILLIONS of solid axle vehicles out there that work just fine. The problem is that when you DO get the wobble, suspension pieces start shaking around volently and ruining their mounting points giving you more places for the wobble to initiate that may not be anywhere near the initial loose component.

What a shock, you mean I actually have to MAINTAIN my vehicle?
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Unread 05-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #8
DCunh00k3d
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Hi all, TY for your help regarding this matter. Yes, it is indeed the classic "Death Wobble" , http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/20/j...rs-of-congress Fascinating article and information. I would like to say that it is only the dealership, however, I have spoke to corporate and I asked them why I wasn't told about this matter. I am taking it to another location, however, I am also looking into getting another vehicle and whatever I have to do. This is UNACCEPTABLE. I did tell the service men why I didn't feel safe. I did explain that the car would lose control for no reason, i explained much. It originally happened few and far b/t which is why I have ONLY (to some) been to the dealership FIVE times for the SAME problem in EIGHT months. Do the math, that's a little over once a month on average... As far as I'm concerned, THAT'S FIVE TIMES TOO MANY. Is that an angry woman? Ha! I don't pay for incompetency, do you? lol, Anyway, i'm just busting them, this has been a cover up and should have been addressed, corrected and professional THE FIRST TIME. I suggest reading the autoblog I have listed. Also I am reading this fast, however Andy, i have no problem changing a fuse, I can even change the oil in your car if you'd like me to, or blow whatever smoke it is that you want to hear, however, I WILL NOT be made a fool of, or told I have to pay for something that was working when I pulled in. I'm not a pee on, if you choose to pay for something that was functioning before you got there, I can give you a list of my stuff?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/20/j...rs-of-congress

http://answers.edmunds.com/answerque...estionId=16258
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Unread 05-17-2012, 05:40 AM   #9
andy02
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Since you felt the need to specifically call me out, I am going to do the same. I am going to respond to your incoherent ramblings as best I can.

Quote:
Hi all, TY for your help regarding this matter.
No Problem, that is what we are here for.
Quote:
Yes, it is indeed the classic "Death Wobble" , http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/20/j...rs-of-congress
Okay, so now we know. Notice that you did not point that out in the first post?
Quote:
Fascinating article and information.
Glad you think so.
Quote:
I would like to say that it is only the dealership, however, I have spoke to corporate and I asked them why I wasn't told about this matter.
I have no idea what this incoherent sentence is trying to say. What was only the dealer? Further, since when is Chrysler required to tell you that Congress is looking into something? Hey, I know Chrysler didn't call you so I'll let you know now that Congress is looking into Social Security.
Quote:
I am taking it to another location, however, I am also looking into getting another vehicle and whatever I have to do.
Good. Can I suggest a Smart Car? They are safe.
Quote:
This is UNACCEPTABLE.
If getting a new car is unacceptable, whey are you looking into it? Or where you saying that the situation was unacceptable? The way you write makes it sound like the former.
Quote:
I did tell the service men why I didn't feel safe. I did explain that the car would lose control for no reason, i explained much.
So you told them but came in here just saying that it felt unsafe and wanted to know if anybody else had the same issue. Somehow, I think if you speak like you write you didn't explain much of anything coherently.
Quote:
It originally happened few and far b/t which is why I have ONLY (to some) been to the dealership FIVE times for the SAME problem in EIGHT months.
Again, something you didn't explain in your first post. Usually, when someone has death wobble (DW) it happens a bit more often. Some of us (myself included) that have dealt with it before could get the Jeep to do it on command. In other words, we figured out just what specific road condition set it off.
Quote:
Do the math, that's a little over once a month on average... As far as I'm concerned, THAT'S FIVE TIMES TOO MANY.
I did the math, it comes out to once every 1.6 months just so you know. I find it interesting that you say you took it in five times and that was five times to many. So you never should have had to take it in? Have you ever owned a vehicle that didn't require at least some sort of service? I haven't.
Quote:
Is that an angry woman?
Yes.
Quote:
Ha! I don't pay for incompetency, do you?
Nope, that is why I am not paying you.
Quote:
lol, Anyway, i'm just busting them, this has been a cover up and should have been addressed, corrected and professional THE FIRST TIME.
Who was covering anything up? It is a well known issue that some Jeeps have. There are about 20 different places that DW can originate. You are not the first to get it, and you sure won't be the last. when I had it, it came from a track bar bushing that was worn out but didn't show signs of being worn out until I took it apart.
Quote:
I suggest reading the autoblog I have listed.
Most of us have, long before you came around here.
Quote:
Also I am reading this fast, however Andy, i have no problem changing a fuse, I can even change the oil in your car if you'd like me to, or blow whatever smoke it is that you want to hear, however, I WILL NOT be made a fool of, or told I have to pay for something that was working when I pulled in.
Holy run on sentence Batman! Let me address this line by line. If you have no problem changing a fuse, why didn't you? No thanks on the offer to change my oil, I prefer to do my own maintenance because I don't pay you for your incompetence. You don't have to be made a fool of, you do that pretty well on your own. Sometimes, stuff breaks. Does that make it the dealers fault? I was going to ask if you felt the same way about light bulbs but I fear I already know the answer.
Quote:
I'm not a pee on,
Please keep your freaky bedroom antics out of this thread. This is a family friendly forum. Maybe you were trying, unsuccessfully, to type peon?
Quote:
if you choose to pay for something that was functioning before you got there, I can give you a list of my stuff?
Fuses, lightbulbs, and other little things are not covered under warranty. Basically, what you are saying is because the vehicle was at the dealer, it is the dealers fault that it blew? I would venture to guess that it didn't even happen while it was in possesion of the dealer. More than likely, it happened when you plugged in whatever device you were plugging in. Otherwise, the circuit is open the entire time. No electricity flowing through it means the fuse can't blow! If it had some other electrical issue such as the fuse constantly blowing every time a new one was put in, means that electricity was flowing to ground through some means other than the plug. Again, I don't expect you to know that as I don't pay you for your incompetence.


Thanks for posting it again, just in case we didn't get it the first time!

I am at work and that site doesn't display properly here. I assume it is filled with more of your incoherent ramblings?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 05-17-2012, 07:25 AM   #10
TheHuntsman
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Spell check. Just sayin'...
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Unread 05-17-2012, 12:56 PM   #11
DCunh00k3d
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Andy, Andy, Andy, I see I must have have hurt your feelings? Do you need a tissue?
Although I said I was just "busting them", I see you took what I said to heart.
I don't know, Andy, you're just way too much of a scholar for me, I just can't keep up!
As of April 13rd, Congress addressed to Chrysler that they need to inform their customers of this issue. If you would have clicked on the link that I purposely placed twice so therefore there wasn't any confusion, you would have seen that.
I won't go any further - for me to reply to your ridiculousness would be just "silly".
All cars have problems, do I think that something called the "Death Wobble" should have been corrected after all these years? It's obviously has raised the attention of many. The name alone is apparent that it can't be that good. If that is "ACCEPTABLE" to some, then God Bless. I personally wouldn't of bought a brand new vehicle had I known I would have brought it to the dealership so many times and it has progressively gotten worse.
As far as my fuse, are you kidding me? LOL
I didn't know about the "Death Wobble" when I originally posted to the forum. I haven't been getting any notifications that people have responded to this thread and when I found out what it was, I logged back on to see if I can find any more information regarding this.
Now that I have explained myself and shouldn't of even had to, I hope I didn't hurt anybody else's feelings - lol - my Lord!
Thanks for everyone's input, truly has helped. Thanks for being such a great sport, Andy, I really didn't expect for you to not know what the little icons with a tongue sticking out, or "just busting em" or whatever other little innuendos I had wrote to let you realize it was all in good fun.
I'm working on that. Lol, trust me, educated is definitely one of the gifts I lack, as is a sense of humor. LOL (that is an innuendo, btw!)

Live life with a grain of salt, no one gets out alive!!!! ;P

Have a Happy Day!

(especially you, Andy, I do mean it!)

Last edited by DCunh00k3d; 05-17-2012 at 02:00 PM..
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Unread 05-17-2012, 01:58 PM   #12
DCunh00k3d
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Andy, Andy, Andy, I see I must have have hurt your feelings? Do you need a tissue?
Although I said I was just "busting them", I see you took what I said to heart.
I don't know, Andy, you're just way too much of a scholar for me, I just can't keep up!
As of April 13rd, Congress addressed to Chrysler that they need to inform their customers of this issue. If you would have clicked on the link that I purposely placed twice so therefore there wasn't any confusion, you would have seen that.
I won't go any further - for me to reply to your ridiculousness would be just "silly".
All cars have problems, do I think that something called the "Death Wobble" should have been corrected after all these years? It's obviously has raised the attention of many. The name alone is apparent that it can't be that good. If that is "ACCEPTABLE" to some, then God Bless. I personally wouldn't of bought a brand new vehicle had I known I would have brought it to the dealership so many times and it has progressively gotten worse.
As far as my fuse, are you kidding me? LOL
I didn't know about the "Death Wobble" when I originally posted to the forum. I haven't been getting any notifications that people have responded to this thread and when I found out what it was, I logged back on to see if I can find any more information regarding this.
Now that I have explained myself and shouldn't of even had to, I hope I didn't hurt anybody else's feelings - lol - my Lord!
Thanks for everyone's input, truly has helped. Thanks for being such a great sport, Andy, I really didn't expect for you to not know what the little icons with a tongue sticking out, or "just busting em" or whatever other little innuendos I had wrote to let you realize it was all in good fun.
I'm working on that. Lol, trust me, educated is definitely one of the gifts I lack, as is a sense of humor. LOL (that is an innuendo, btw!)


Live life with a grain of salt, no one gets out alive!!!! ;P

Have a Happy Day!

(especially you, Andy, I do mean it!) [/QUOTE]
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Unread 05-17-2012, 06:02 PM   #13
bcski
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such fun, do the mods here ban???
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Unread 05-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #14
andy02
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Quite the contrary, you didn't hurt my feelings at all. I actually find this all very funny. What you did do, was make me go back and re-read the autoblog to see if there were any updates. It seems that you might be mistaken, nowhere in the article does it say that there is a a ruling by Congress or the NHTSA. At least this time, you seem to write at least slightly coherently in that what you wrote is readable. However, you say that you "won't go any farther" and then continue on writing a whole paragraph. It seems, at least by your writing, that you have at least calmed down a little. Now that that is the case, we can start to look for a solution if that is what you would like. In the very least, we could give you a couple of things that you can have the tech look at. There are a few things that we, as enthusiasts, have learned in dealing with DW that a dealer probably wouldn't know. It seems that Chrysler doesn't either as they say that it could be a stabilizer. As WhiteOut said earlier in this thread, it can't be caused or fixed by the stabilizer. So lets get started on finding a fix for you. First, a kind of definition, DW is the inability of the front suspension to control the normal oscillation of the tires.

The first thing you should do is what is known as a dry steering test. With the engine off, have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth between about 10 and 2. As they do so, take a look at all the joints on the front suspension. Pay particular attention to where the track bar attaches to the axle. The track bar is the solid bar that runs from the drivers side frame rail to the passenger side axle. This seems to be a popular spot for DW to originate. You should see no play of the bushing or the bolt. While doing the dry steering test, also look at all eight control arm attachment points. You should see no play in those either. If there is play in any of those, it needs to be repaired. Sometimes it can be as easy as tightening a loose bolt, other times it requires new bushings. In more extreme cases, the bolt hole has been wallowed out and needs to be fixed.

Next while still under the vehicle, take a look at all the steering joints. You should find no play in any of those joints. There are four points in the steering in which DW can originate. Those points are between the joint between the pitman arm on the steering box and the drag link. The joint where the drag link meets the tie rod, and where the tie rod meets both steering knuckles. Note that it is normal for the tie rod to be able to rotate around its axis slightly. If everything looks nice and tight, we can then move on.

Third, test the ball joints. To do so, jack up the front of the Jeep. Once you have the tires in the air, alternately push and pull on the top and bottom of the tire. You should find no movement. Then, take a pry bar (your tire iron works) and place it between the ground and the tire. Pull up on the pry bar. You should again, see no movement besides normal deformation of the rubber of the tire.

If all else fails, have the tires rotated and balanced as well as an alignment done. It is up to some debate as to if DW can originate there.

For the most part, something up front is loose. The tests I have outlined should find what it is. Once you know what it is, it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. As DW occurs more and more, it wears out other parts faster meaning that there are more points in which it can originate. I fixed a Cherokee while I was in Germany in which the owner had let it go so long and it happened so often that it required a complete overhaul of the front end. Everything had play in it. Usually, DW can be mitigated by preventative maintenance. That is, get under the Jeep and put a wrench on every bolt. I do this on my personal Jeep at every oil change.

I sincerely hope this helps you to solve the issue. I know that DW can be scary but it can be fixed.

Have a great day! I know I am.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 05-17-2012, 10:50 PM   #15
DCunh00k3d
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Thanks Andy, my day was GREAT! I exercised for like 6 hours then ate ice cream! Lol
I'm glad we kissed and made up :mwah: lol
If you actually go to that URL and continue to follow this story, you will find it later goes on with 4 other videos regarding this. Whatever, this is old and we are past it!
I'm just trying to gather as much information b/c I have indeed had the run around these past 8 months and it isn't a good feeling to say the least!
I have printed what you wrote and will definitely address it with the service manager.
I appreciate your help and glad to see we r buds!
For the most part, I have done all those things you said, and I know I am looking for the originator now! Just stinks!

Have a Happy Dayyyy


Dana
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