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Unread 11-09-2013, 07:23 PM   #16
gunshw301
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Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with a 2.5, but the 2.5/auto combo really sucks with anything larger than stock tires.

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Unread 11-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #17
deathtrap
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I wouldn't lease a vehicle I was planning to use off road. They charge you for dings and scratches. And you will have Less then nothing at the end.
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Unread 11-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #18
irnmadn88
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Define off-road. As in, where do you expect to take this vehicle?

Horses for courses as they say.
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Unread 11-09-2013, 09:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew4392 View Post

Are older Wranglers capable off-road vehicles? I've read the 6-cyl is very reliable. How about the 4-cyl?


Thanks!!

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I can't believe Armageddon hasn't arrived asking that here!
I kid, I kid.

Yes they are capable. By leaps and bounds. I'm on my 2nd YJ and fall more in love (and hate) with it each day.

Try and find one for 3-4k and use the other 2k on a tune up and some lift and tires.

But for sure go with an older-ish Jeep. 91-99 is the window (91-95 will be a YJ, 97-99 a TJ). The 4.0 is nice, but so far I'm ok with my 2.5. Not a demon on the highway, but holds freeway speeds fine right now, and that's all I need her to do around town. Offroad it's a damn billygoat and I can keep up with JKs locked f/r on 35s/37s through some pretty fun stuff.

Cheers
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Unread 11-10-2013, 06:54 AM   #20
chevy2169
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Jeeps are reliable if they are taken care of and maintained. A stock jeep is very capable off road, especially with a good set of tires. I'm running 32s on a 2 inch lift, not much different than stock and mine goes anywhere I need it to within reason. Know your limits and learn to drive the jeep and you can have serious fun without modifying it at all.
Also I'd advise against a Land Rover, they are expensive to maintain if budget is what you're after.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 09:57 AM   #21
Demp
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Originally Posted by NonRubicon View Post
... Also seeing as you are in California you need to be aware that the 6 cylinder 4.2L (87-90) has a computer controlled Carter BBD carburetor setup that cannot be swapped out for any other carb. The system is a complex Rube Goldberg contraption that can be finicky to deal with and a PITA to diagnose. Plus, some parts for the OEM carb setup are no longer made and are only to be found as used/junkyard deals. So if considering a 89-09 4.2L to drive on the street, take into account that if you want a 4.2L with better performance/reliability than the stock Carter BBD setup, an upgrade to Howell TBI or Mopar MPFI are your only options. Else, swap in a 4.0 MPFI engine from a newer YJ. ...
^This. While they were good carburetors, their age is showing and parts are hard to find. Trying to replace OEM ends up with a close approximation that is a nightmare to run perfectly.

The YJ didn't and I don't think the CJ came with any option for lockers, neither had advanced systems like Hill Assist, and had classic 5 speed manuals.

My dad has an 89 with the 4.2 seeing over 270k miles. It still runs good considering the carburetor on it but idles a little rough. I drove a 93 4cyl that ran pretty good for the hills and dirt trails where I lived. The 4.0 Inline 6 is considered one of the best off road engines made, and saw only light changes in design in it's entire run (EFI, Computer Timing etc).
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Unread 11-10-2013, 04:18 PM   #22
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funny. no big tires, no roll bars, no seat belts, no lockers the Rubicon Trail. 60 hp and no fear. i can remember this........though it was in 1970

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Unread 11-10-2013, 05:42 PM   #23
drew4392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrows View Post
I can't believe Armageddon hasn't arrived asking that here!
I kid, I kid.

Yes they are capable. By leaps and bounds. I'm on my 2nd YJ and fall more in love (and hate) with it each day.

Try and find one for 3-4k and use the other 2k on a tune up and some lift and tires.

But for sure go with an older-ish Jeep. 91-99 is the window (91-95 will be a YJ, 97-99 a TJ). The 4.0 is nice, but so far I'm ok with my 2.5. Not a demon on the highway, but holds freeway speeds fine right now, and that's all I need her to do around town. Offroad it's a damn billygoat and I can keep up with JKs locked f/r on 35s/37s through some pretty fun stuff.

Cheers
Great testament for the 4 cyl. I remember my buddy's mid to late 90s 4 banger going up almost anything. Think I'd be happy with that. Is the tranny as durable on the 4cyl vs. 6cyl??


Quote:
Originally Posted by irnmadn88 View Post
Define off-road. As in, where do you expect to take this vehicle?

Horses for courses as they say.
Nothing crazy. Rutted, rocky, muddy, and/or steep-ish roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermantownJeep View Post
I got my 2.5 new in 95. It's fine. But there is no reason the buy a used 4cyl. After 20 years, the difference in cost is negligible. BUY A 4.0!
I read on here that the carburetor is problematic and tough to diagnose/repair due to the fact that parts are not made for it any longer. Maybe that was for the earlier Wranglers... late 80's... I read the 6's are very reliable, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshw301 View Post
Here is my very basic advice.

Forget the 4cyl jeeps if you want an auto

93-95 yj 6cyl auto

1998-2003 tj 6cyl

Both yj and tj are capable, tj has more bolt on mods (at a higher price generally) yj less bolt on mods (at a lower price generally)
Curious... are the 4cyl trannies less durable?



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBootlegger View Post
Finding a "stock" 1987 will be pretty hard lol. Theres always a few mods or "repairs" the PO did lol. As to the 4cyl, that's what I have and off road it is comparable to a 6cyl, but the difference is on the highway, where the small 2.5L will lack power big time (unless it's got stock tires, but who has stock tires). YJ's have leaf springs on all 4 and have solid axles, which, in my opinion and many others is a superior design. Its proven, simple and effective. If you want confort though, don't go for a Jeep buddy, unless you go with one of those so-called "Jeep" JKs with heated seating and air bags and coil suspension lol.
I drive my DD for comfort Jeep will be for fun.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #24
drew4392
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Originally Posted by 2jhanna View Post
With a budget of $6000, you can even get a good condition 97-99 TJ.
Nice! Glad to know I can, with decent luck, find a TJ. I'd be happy with a YJ, but won't complain about nicer creature comforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2jhanna View Post
Just a sample from your area. But manual.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv...151281241.html
Proof. That's great. Thanks for pointing this one out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NonRubicon View Post
The early YJ Wranglers are capable off-road vehicles. In stock form they are good, but with a little modification they can do much more. It's part of the reason that they hold their value so well as people can reasonably ask $6000 for a vehicle that may be up to 26 years old and have 130,000 miles on it. How capable depends on how you modify it.

There are some things to consider when considering an early yj (1987-1990). Older Jeeps will likely need more TLC to get them to the level of reliability that one expects from a brand new vehicle (some states consider the early YJ to an antique for registration purposes). Also seeing as you are in California you need to be aware that the 6 cylinder 4.2L (87-90) has a computer controlled Carter BBD carburetor setup that cannot be swapped out for any other carb. The system is a complex Rube Goldberg contraption that can be finicky to deal with and a PITA to diagnose. Plus, some parts for the OEM carb setup are no longer made and are only to be found as used/junkyard deals. So if considering a 89-09 4.2L to drive on the street, take into account that if you want a 4.2L with better performance/reliability than the stock Carter BBD setup, an upgrade to Howell TBI or Mopar MPFI are your only options. Else, swap in a 4.0 MPFI engine from a newer YJ.

As far as beginner off-road abilities go, having fancy gadgets like downhill brake assist and hill start assist, 8 speed transmissions and all the like are nice luxuries, but they don't make a person a more capable off-road driver, they just make the vehicle easier for a wider range of people to use. Knowing the limits and abilities of the vehicle you are driving, and having the knowledge and skills to utilize the vehicle to it's best abilities is more important than gadgets and gimmicks. Think of some of the new fangled gadgets out there today as the vehicle equivalent of auto correct. Auto correct let you blindly type words into your computer/phone without paying real close attention to the keyboard and voila! It's been corrected. BUT... it leaves you with the habit of sloppy typing, and when found without the benefit of a computerized autocorrect, you are at a disadvantage.
Really helpful info. Thank you. So these could-be-challenging carburetors... are they only found on the '87-'90 models?? Or, are they standard on all 6-cyl models up to '09? From a reliability, fewer things have a chance of needing repair perspective, is the 4cyl a better way to go? I read the 6cyls are very reliable, but the carb issue concerns me a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy2169 View Post
Jeeps are reliable if they are taken care of and maintained. A stock jeep is very capable off road, especially with a good set of tires. I'm running 32s on a 2 inch lift, not much different than stock and mine goes anywhere I need it to within reason. Know your limits and learn to drive the jeep and you can have serious fun without modifying it at all.
Also I'd advise against a Land Rover, they are expensive to maintain if budget is what you're after.
Yea, I'm becoming more familiar with how well these Wranglers can perform. Good to know in relatively stock trim they can tackle a lot. LR would be a new RRS that would replace my DD and serve as a here-and-there off roader. I'm definitely leaning towards a second vehicle (wrangler) in addition to my current DD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demp View Post
^This. While they were good carburetors, their age is showing and parts are hard to find. Trying to replace OEM ends up with a close approximation that is a nightmare to run perfectly.

The YJ didn't and I don't think the CJ came with any option for lockers, neither had advanced systems like Hill Assist, and had classic 5 speed manuals.

My dad has an 89 with the 4.2 seeing over 270k miles. It still runs good considering the carburetor on it but idles a little rough. I drove a 93 4cyl that ran pretty good for the hills and dirt trails where I lived. The 4.0 Inline 6 is considered one of the best off road engines made, and saw only light changes in design in it's entire run (EFI, Computer Timing etc).
This carb issue... I've searched for threads about this. Are there years I should avoid (think NonRubicon mentioned 87-90)?



Thanks everyone! Really helpful. I appreciate it.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #25
drew4392
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nevermind... just learned that the fuel injection started in '91... thats where I'll look
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Unread 11-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #26
drew4392
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nevermind... just learned that the fuel injection started in '91... thats where I'll look
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Unread 11-10-2013, 06:13 PM   #27
irnmadn88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew4392 View Post
Nothing crazy. Rutted, rocky, muddy, and/or steep-ish roads.
So you want more of an expedition type vehicle as noted by your choice of either a Jeep or Land Rover.

An overland or expedition type vehicle is set up some what differently than a rock crawler.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #28
rebelbowtie
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I'd want something with more space than a YJ for an expedition vehicle.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 07:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew4392 View Post
Really helpful info. Thank you. So these could-be-challenging carburetors... are they only found on the '87-'90 models?? Or, are they standard on all 6-cyl models up to '09? From a reliability, fewer things have a chance of needing repair perspective, is the 4cyl a better way to go? I read the 6cyls are very reliable, but the carb issue concerns me a little.
Whoops. I made a mistake in my post with that reference to 87-09, I meant 87-90. Sorry about that. The Carter BBD (and the 4.2L engine it was put on) was discontinued when the fuel injected 4.0L was introduced for the Wrangler line in 1991.

Provided you can afford to put in Howell TBI, the 4.2L can be made reliable, but it will cost you about $1200 for the CA legal Howell TBI kit. Doing a MOPAR MPFI upgrade isn't really financially smart (unless you must have a 4.2L), as you could swap in a rebuilt 4.0L in for less than the cost of a MOPAR MPFI kit (~$2400).

Between the two, the MPFI 4.0L (1991-1995) are much more reliable than the factory carbureted 4.2L (1987-1990). The roll bars styles are different, but the roll bars can be swapped.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 07:22 PM   #30
tyvanwie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie
I'd want something with more space than a YJ for an expedition vehicle.
X2. But I don't think TJ's have much more space, if any, and LJ's are going to be too expensive.
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