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Unread 08-28-2013, 09:56 AM   #31
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Hand throttle. No need to imagine :-)

And like I said earlier, I won't argue that autos aren't functionally better. In many cases they are. But better isn't always more fun. Locking an auto in 1st/2nd really isn't the same. I have wheeled with an automatic. I didn't care for it because it took away some of the driving challenge. But in the end, this is a discussion of preferences. This is an old debate and in the end the automatics are going to win. That being said, I like my Jeep because it is primitive, mechanical and silly compared to most other modern vehicles. The manual only makes it more so.
Autos are functionally different. They are not functionally better. I've built very capable rigs around both transmissions and neither is superior. There is a large cost difference to get the manual as capable though.

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Unread 08-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #32
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My comment was far more general than off-road specific. The fact of the matter is that the clutch pedal will all but disappear in the future.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #33
Tom95YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine

Autos are functionally different. They are not functionally better. I've built very capable rigs around both transmissions and neither is superior. There is a large cost difference to get the manual as capable though.
I will agree with this all my wranglers are manual my Xj is an auto. With the wranglers I wish I had an auto at times with the Xj I wish I had a manual at times.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 04:57 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tom95YJ View Post
I will agree with this all my wranglers are manual my Xj is an auto. With the wranglers I wish I had an auto at times with the Xj I wish I had a manual at times.
It would be nice to have a torque converter on a manual at times. (Also a park position wouldn't be bad either)
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Unread 08-29-2013, 09:22 AM   #35
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I drive a manual transmission car as my daily to work and I love it. Trafficky conditions do get annoying but the overall experience is much much better. I can't speak for manual off-roading but I can see how an automatic would have some serious upside.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 09:27 AM   #36
TJDaveX
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I wish this subject would come up more often.
I learned to drive in a manual.
Have owned many vehicles with both manuals and autos.
My two previous off road rigs were manuals.
My F250 is a manual.
I shift 13 speed unsycronized manuals almost every day at work.

But do I ever love my auto in the Jeep. I will never go back to a manual for an off road rig.

There. I am sure I have swayed everyone to buy an auto, or do a swap.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 11:10 AM   #37
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Autos are easier, actually more efficient and more expensive to fix.
Manuals are loads more fun, give you the ability to drive not ride in the drivers seat, and also require a third leg when you are doing serious off road and hill climbing.

Your choice, they both have their pros and cons.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 12:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadslram View Post
Autos are easier, actually more efficient and more expensive to fix.
That's likely not been true for awhile if the prices for rebuilding manuals are an indication.

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Manuals are loads more fun, give you the ability to drive not ride in the drivers seat, and also require a third leg when you are doing serious off road and hill climbing.


No one who drives an auto in terrain that requires any skill would ever say they are not driving. That's typically the comment that sends these discussions spiraling out of control when made by the clueless who drive manuals.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine

No one who drives an auto in terrain that requires any skill would ever say they are not driving. That's typically the comment that sends these discussions spiraling out of control when made by the clueless who drive manuals.
So true, I watch lots of auto guys have difficulty just because they don't know how to drive technical stuff with an auto.

Auto or manual...your gonna need both feet to drive.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 12:58 PM   #40
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And heel-toeing is no excuse or advantage haha
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Unread 08-29-2013, 01:01 PM   #41
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I say that because every bit of driving you do on a trail with an auto you still have to do with a manual. But with an manual you also have to determine which gear, how to start on a hill, how much gas and clutch pedal to give for enough power without slip..etc.
On the road an auto is set and forget, a manual is decisions all the time..downshift to pass or not? Up through the gears at start up..when to shift...real decisions that a driver makes.

A standard manual rebuild (not upgrading just keeping stock) is ~$900 here, my wife's van just cost me $2500 for a rebuild. That's at a shop.
I can rebuild a manual in my garage with the semi advanced tools I own. An auto these days needs computer modules, analyzers and a series of pressure gauges.
Yes a manual has a clutch that is more of a wear item but I can do a clutch in an afternoon and still have time to drink beer after. I do replace pressure plate and flywheel each time but that's just because I do it that way. They only need to be replaced once in a blue moon and why not have a balanced and true set. I've done this for two friends and two of my own since I learned to drive. The worst was a Plymouth Sundance because it was a transverse mount and I basically had to pull the whole engine to get it done with the tools and space I had.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 03:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadslram View Post
On the road an auto is set and forget, a manual is decisions all the time..downshift to pass or not? Up through the gears at start up..when to shift...real decisions that a driver makes.
Any and I mean any manual driver that has more than just a few months of driving experience with them makes those decisions with less brain power than it takes to type the post you just wrote. It becomes, (shall I say it?, yes I should) automatic.

Quote:
A standard manual rebuild (not upgrading just keeping stock) is ~$900 here, my wife's van just cost me $2500 for a rebuild. That's at a shop.
I can rebuild a manual in my garage with the semi advanced tools I own. An auto these days needs computer modules, analyzers and a series of pressure gauges.
See, there you go again, pick the best scenario on one side and the worst on the other to try and make a flawed point. How about we compare a 32RH to an AX-15 and don't forget the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and throw-out bearing with a pilot bearing for good measure.
Quote:
Yes a manual has a clutch that is more of a wear item but I can do a clutch in an afternoon and still have time to drink beer after. I do replace pressure plate and flywheel each time but that's just because I do it that way. They only need to be replaced once in a blue moon and why not have a balanced and true set. I've done this for two friends and two of my own since I learned to drive. The worst was a Plymouth Sundance because it was a transverse mount and I basically had to pull the whole engine to get it done with the tools and space I had.
I keep spare transmissions around for grins and giggles, so where does that put us?
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Unread 08-29-2013, 07:05 PM   #43
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I think there is a group of Wrangler drivers out there that chose manual over automatic for another reason not mentioned and I am one of them. Prior to owning my 04 Rubicon, I was driving a Eldorado that had automatic everything. I was sick and tired of every choice being made for me. It was an awesome car but I got to thinking...what can I buy "new" that is manual and where I get to make all the choices? I remembered when I grew up that most cars were standard and I wanted to feel that feeling again. The only vehicle that fits the bill of being back in time was a Wrangler stick shift. With it came window cranks, gauges, etc. Because of the aforementioned reasons, I will never get rid of my jeep. I chose wisely as I grew up in a different generation.
Some of the reasons you mentioned are the exact reason I switched back to my old Peterbilt, I was driving a Volvo before. The Volvo doesn't let you do anything, tries to think for you, and is a PITA to drive. The Peterbilt has a million switches and gauges on the dash, it only activates a function when I do it from the driver seat.

And at the same time, that's how I feel about cars too. I prefer to drive older vehicles that aren't filled with computer controlled stuff. I prefer to make the choices in a vehicle that is travelling 75mph down the highway, not some computer that can't see or hear. That's another reason I prefer manual transmissions.
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Unread 08-29-2013, 07:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post

I keep spare transmissions around for grins and giggles, so where does that put us?
It puts you as the more manly man with a bigger stick shift..you win
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Unread 08-29-2013, 08:53 PM   #45
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It puts you as the more manly man with a bigger stick shift..you win
They are a stick shiftless lot they are.
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