[JeffB]

Looking to buy a used vehicle in the next month or so and always thought a Jeep Wrangler would be nice. Or maybe a Liberty or something else. Here's my situation:

Live in Dallas and drive on regular paved roads about 99% of the time.

Pull a boat about 6 times per month.

Take a trip over 200 miles about once per month, usually camping at State Park or Lake.

Take a trip to National Park about twice per year (1500 miles each).

At Big Bend National Park we drive 4WD roads, some of which are rated for 4WD, some for high clearance. Some roads are unmaintained and in unknown condition. Roads range from 10 to 50 miles long and large rocks, eroded ruts and dry washes. Not much mud. We usually rent a 4WD Ford Explorer or similar for the trip and it handles things marginally (busted the plastic running board last year on a bowling ball sized rock).

On camping trips we need a LOT of cargo space for gear/coolers/canoe/dog/boat/mountain bikes etc. and easy access.

What do you guys think? I've heard driving a Wrangler 600 miles on the highway is miserable. They also seem to have too little cargo space and difficult access due to the spare tire placement. But they are perfect for the rough roads. Maybe a Liberty would be better. And then there's gas mileage for a 1500 mile trip... So what should I get?

Thanks for your opinions.

[JeffB]

Also, how does a Liberty handle off-roading compared to a Wrangler or 4WD chevy blazer or ford exploder.

[RogueSpear2023]

A liberty is pretty much worthless off road I would put on par with an escape or maybe an explorer. What year wrangler are you looking at. The new ones 07+ considered JKs are great DD and great on the road, they are also good offroad. My jeep is a TJ and is it is my DD I have driven 600 miles several times with out problems I don't know where you get the miserable part from, if you need room in the old TJ you could always pull a trailer if you have kids or if not pull the back seat out.(takes about 5 seconds). TJs and JKs ride nice too thanks to coil spring suspension as far as mileage in a liberty expect 14city/17hwy, wrangler will be about the same. If you are looking at a unlimited they will give much more room than any of the short versions. A liberty in no way can compare to a Wrangler off road. As far as spare tire placement why is this a problem, on a stock jeep wrangler it's attached to the rear door swing the door open, and the tire goes with it. Some after market ones are attached to the rear bumper like mine. I just pull a pin and the tire swings out of the way then I open the rear door as I normally would. Liberties were made for soccer moms to drive around town they were not designed for off road travel more than a gravel road. Depending on the size of your boat this should also be a deciding factor, the tow rating on a short wheelbase Wrangler is 2000lbs on the long version it is 3500lbs. Once you get a Wrangler you will fall in love with it, the wife will soon be saying you love that thing more than me, you may even name it, and you will probably spend more money on it than you will ever spend on the wife with all the upgrades you are going to want. If you want the ultimate off-road wrangler get a Rubicon, they are also great on road if that is a concern, but the upgrades from the factory more than make up for the additional cost if you want to get in serious off-roading.

[lilbluetj]

ok well just looking at a wrangler and a liberty i will tell you what goes on in my house. i drive a 00 tj, and my dad a 01 liberty, and my mom a 02 grand Cherokee laredeo, for pulling things i love useing the grand cherokee, the liberty does great too, my mom's is just bigger. My dad has never gotten stuck in deep mud or 4 feet of snow that we get here. the liberty is fun and good on off road as well as a great DD i get to drive it once in a while it handles and rides nice. My wrangler i feel could go tru anything but im 17 too so go figure lol but its rough to drive and in the wind with two hands on the wheel you consitly thinking the on coming traffic is going to pull over so you dont blow over in their lane and kill them, its nice and great for what i need it for, i drive to work about 50 miles one way and its fun off road and i do spend to much on it. But if i were you i would go with a liberty u can haul and have a back seat you can handle a great deal off road but also consider the grand cherokee its great too, wranglers are fun off road but i bearly use mine to pull things and its just a lot of work i am not complaining i wouldnt sell it for anything period i love it more than my chevy truck and my lil car i use to have. its a very personal jeep but you gotta know what you want i stick by what i said out of the two for you Liberty but for me in your shoes liberty or grand cherokee

[JeffB]

Thanks for the reply. The rear door & spare tire would be a problem if you are towing a boat. Can you open the back without removing the trailer? I thin k the boat winch would be in the way. With a Cherokee or Liberty it seems like you could still open the back hatch and/or glass even with boat trailer or trailer hitch rack.

I'd like to get a Wrangler with a lift kit for serious off-road driving like the 50-mile river road at Big Bend National Park. My main reservation with a Wrangler is cargo space. We take lots of gear for 10 days of expedition backpacking plus a 100-quart MaxCold cooler.

It looks like a ~1999 XJ Cherokee with a 3" lift may be the way to go. From what I have read on this forum the XJ is a much better off-road vehicle than the Liberty. Cherokee over Wrangler because of cargo space.

I'm not doing any rock-crawling but some of the backroads I drive are pretty hairy. Too much for a stock 4WD Explorer. Maye too much for a Liberty too. I don't know.

I'm hoping to spend max $10K.
Here's the best Jeep I've found that seems to fit all these needs:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1167917885.html

[leftlanetruckin]

for the budget you mentioned, and what you want it to to, i would be looking at a grand cherokee wj, or a cherokee.
both would serve you very well IMO. the grand will be better on road trips, assuming you get the 4.7. the cherokee better offroad due to its smaller size and less risk of damage to body panels.
i would be looking for either a 02 and later grand with the 4.7 and selec trac transfer case (i think that is the one with a 2wd option).
or a 98 and later cherokee with the 4.0 and a chrysler 8.25" rear axle. both should be low mileage examples for that kind of money.

martin

[callaway]

Originally Posted by RogueSpear2023

A liberty is pretty much worthless off road I would put on par with an escape or maybe an explorer.

I've taken my kj out many times and have never had an issue keeping up with modified wranglers or cherokees. A properly set up liberty can go more places than you think.

Don't bash what you don't drive

[supniceyeah]

grand cherokee ftw... dont expect gas mileage to be a selling point in really any of your jeep options, so for the rest of the options, grand cherokee has the pulling power, the room on the inside for passengers and cargo, it'll go anywhere you take it like most jeeps, and for long trips its selling point over an xj is the coil springs all around instead of just up front which will give it a slightly less truck like drive

[supniceyeah]

also, if you like the fact htat you can remove the doors in a wrangler, having a grand cherokee hasnt stopped me from going doorless

[conrasm]

With all you do, I would suggest a late model XJ or ZJ/WJ with a mild 2-3" lift, enough to fit 31's. I don't think a liberty would serve you well for the offroad stuff you do. The IFS can be expensive to lift and they just aren't that capable IMO compared to a comparably lifted XJ or GC. That will give you some ground clearance to do the trails you are talking about, the pulling power for the boat, plus the cargo space. You could also add some skid plates ( which can be had from JY's for pretty cheap) to an XJ or GC for added protection.

A 3" lift with a 31" shouldn't give you too many problems on either in terms of other mods needed, like upgraded steering, slip yoke eliminator, driveshaft mods...and should still be rather streetable. Old Man Emu makes some nice mild lifts that ride great on road, although they tend to be pricey.

If you plan on lifting at all, I would do some research and get a quality lift since you will drive a lot. Suspension isn't something you want to skimp on if you spend a lot of road time in the vehicle, especially with shocks.

The GC will be bigger inside and it sounds as if you need a decent amount of interior space for the camping trips, although XJ's have a nice sized cargo area as well.

If you look at XJ's, consider a 97+ with a Chr 8.25 rear axle as they are pretty strong and should hold up to 31's without a problem. There have been problems with the 00-01 heads cracking, plus they have LP front axles compared to the HP dana 30's in the older XJ's. GC are nice too and you could wheel in style, plus you'll have the option of a v8 for towing. I think a TJ or JK (2 door) will be alittle small for your needs. The LJ (unlimited wrangler) was about 10" longer, but they are still a little short on storage space. The new 4 door JK's are pretty sweet, but may be out of your price range depending on what you want to spend.

[tnjeep03]

I have an 03 TJ Rubicon and an 04 Liberty, which replaced a 93 S-10 Blazer. The KJ is my DD and I like it alot. It has lots of space, is WAY better than the S10 and is decent for towing (within reason, its not a truck of course).

If you can't do the trails you want with an Explorer, I don't think the KJ is for you. You did say you spend 99% of time on road though, so anything with the amount of off-road capability you require is going to be a bit of a compromise.

Off road there is no comparison between my TJ Rubicon and my KJ. Nothing against the KJ and if you want to see an amazing KJ build, go here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/birth-wheeling-liberty-519636/

Sounds like your on the right track with the XJ/ZJ, then a few mods and good to go. Maybe more than you want to spend, but if you could find an early Unlimited Rubicon I'd put it on your list (LJ). May take longer than you want to find one though...

Whatever you do, I would spend alot of time reading up on the model you want with some thought for how much you plan to modify before going for it. For example, if I had planned to put D60s in my TJ it would have been kinda dumb of me to buy a rubicon...

[RogueSpear2023]

I think if you find a nice XJ that would good for what you want also look at the 99-04 Grand Cherokee they are very well built for off-road and you get luxury too.

Originally Posted by callaway

I've taken my kj out many times and have never had an issue keeping up with modified wranglers or cherokees. A properly set up liberty can go more places than you think.

Don't bash what you don't drive

Drove one for year, there is no way a KJ can come close to keeping up with even a stock Wrangler or Cherokee. Now mind you they are better than most other options in there class. There's just no replacement for a solid front axle.

[JeffB]

OK, I've narrowed it down to XJ or Grand Cherokee.

Now I need to do a lot of research on all the different options.

Most likely I'll follow the advise of Conrasm and Leftlanetruckin and look for a '98 or '99 XJ with the 4.0 and Chrysler 8.25" and Dana 30.

I have a lot of questions about lift kits, axles and transfer cases but I'll start a new thread later after I do some research.

Thanks!

[leftlanetruckin]

good choice IMHO.

martin