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Unread 11-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #31
wilson1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
I'll be darned. You finally said something I agree with.
Its a matter of odds. Charley can't be wrong all the time. Although, I was starting to think you were trying.

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Unread 11-29-2013, 03:20 PM   #32
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickair544 View Post
Skinny tires:

I was thinking of changing from 285 16 wheels to 15 aluminum wheels and going to the much lighter setup of:
33-10.50-15

Will save near 10 lbs per, rotating mass. Should save brakes and fuel.

Your thoughts?
I did exactly that on an LJ Rubi in the past.

I gained many mpg, and greatly improved acceleration and braking.

It was also much better on Winter roads and wet highways.
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Unread 11-29-2013, 03:30 PM   #33
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Wilson, I read your mis-explanation of contact pressure (again, as I've seen it in many threads).

Seriously, what can I say about it that hasn't already been said before?

I don't understand why you can't understand the concept.

But you did make some progress. So good for you.
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Unread 11-29-2013, 05:56 PM   #34
wilson1010
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Wilson, I read your mis-explanation of contact pressure (again, as I've seen it in many threads).

Seriously, what can I say about it that hasn't already been said before?

I don't understand why you can't understand the concept.

But you did make some progress. So good for you.
I guess they don't teach physics in high schools in Washington. Or, you slept through it all. Try Wikipedia. It is aimed at your skill set and will confirm what you can't seem to understand.

Charley =
box-rocks-bl.jpg

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Unread 11-30-2013, 03:11 AM   #35
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15 inch wheels??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
I did exactly that on an LJ Rubi in the past.

I gained many mpg, and greatly improved acceleration and braking.

It was also much better on Winter roads and wet highways.
Thanks Charlie, your post is just what I was interested in hearing feedback on. Do you have any advise on 15 inch wheel choices to clear the disc brakes on front and rear?
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Unread 11-30-2013, 04:43 AM   #36
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I question why anyone would actually solicit "Charley" for information, other than the closest route to the mens' room, but let me ask why you would want to change 16 inch wheels for 15 inch wheels? First, the overall diameter of a 33" tire is the same, so a 15 inch wheel trades the weight of one inch of wheel diameter for one inch of tire inside diameter. The rubber weighs less than aluminum, but has to be thicker. Does it weigh less? Who knows? Not "Charley" that's for sure. And, you have the brake hardware issue to contend with.

Second, I doubt you could even detect the difference between a 285 width tire and 10.5. The difference might be 3/4" and the brand and model of tire makes far more difference in weight than 3/4" in width.

If you want a lighter tire, go check the weights of tires on Tire Rack and pick a light one. I run the same rig as you do, and would never waste money on this issue. Remember that when you reduce weight of a tire or a wheel, you give up something else. Durability, reliability, longevity, etc. The engineers at BFG or Firestone don't just say to themselves: "Gee, we have some extra rubber and aluminum laying around, let's just slap it on Nick's tires and wheels so they weigh more." There is a reason for the weight. And, while you can have different priorities, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 04:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Its about physics.

The contact area of the tire equals the weight of the car divided by the internal pressure of the tire. More weight, more area on the ground. Less pressure, more area on the ground. And, vice versa. The shape of the tire means nada. A spherical tire (like a rubber ball) would give the same result.

A 3200 pound rig with 32 psi in the tires puts 100 square inches total to the ground. 25 square inches per tire. So, a 3200 pound rig with 16 psi in the tires puts 200 square inches of tire area on the ground. 50 square inches per tire. If the tire is 12.50 wide then the patch is 12.5" by 4". If the tire is 10 inches wide, then the patch is 10" by 5" and, so on.

The only thing hold the rims off the ground is the air in the tire. Each square inch of tire on the ground supports a certain amount of the weight of the car. If there is 32 psi in the tire, there is 32 psi on the ground. the lower the psi the more the tire spreads out to put more area of the tire at the lower psi.

100% true, the one factor that makes a 33x12.5 tire better than a 33x10.5 is that the 12.5 tire has a great Volume of air. Having a greater volume of air allows you to run a lower pressure off road this provides a better ride on the rough stuff.

Back East Cookie Cutters were just the ticket to dig in, here in Colorado it's better to have the larger volume of air running over the rocks.
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Unread 12-05-2013, 04:39 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dukeryder View Post
100% true, the one factor that makes a 33x12.5 tire better than a 33x10.5 is that the 12.5 tire has a great Volume of air. Having a greater volume of air allows you to run a lower pressure off road this provides a better ride on the rough stuff.

Back East Cookie Cutters were just the ticket to dig in, here in Colorado it's better to have the larger volume of air running over the rocks.
That is really interesting. I have never heard that theory before. And, it actually makes sense. More air, less of a spike in internal pressure from compression.

If you have a beach ball and poke it with a finger, it compresses easily. But, push that same volume of finger into a balloon the size of a grape and one would have a different result.
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Unread 12-16-2013, 08:54 AM   #39
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Well, Goodyear decided this issue for me..

Was looking at Duratracs in 305/70-16. Lo and behold they no longer make that size.

So it's back to the 285/75-16 that I had originally looked at.
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Unread 12-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Choose a tire that fits your needs and the width will already be determined by the height you need.
Huh?

Tire companies do not make an unlimited selection of widths in all heights. By the time you choose a tire (make, model, and height) for a certain wheel size, Factor in the price, load rating, and availability, the width becomes a mute point. The difference in width between comparable sizes is so minimal at that point, it's not really a significant factor.

The difference in width between 33's in a 285 and a 305 is only about 1". If you don't want the load rating and price of the metric tires, You'll be looking at a 12.50" wide tire which is only slightly wider than a 305. The difference in width between all them are so minimal, it's not really worth losing any sleep over. Chances are, the height difference between all of them will be more of a determining factor than the width.
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Unread 12-16-2013, 09:31 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Tire companies do not make an unlimited selection of widths in all heights. By the time you choose a tire (make, model, and height) for a certain wheel size, Factor in the price, load rating, and availability, the width becomes a mute point. The difference in width between comparable sizes is so minimal at that point, it's not really a significant factor.

The difference in width between 33's in a 285 and a 305 is only about 1". If you don't want the load rating and price of the metric tires, You'll be looking at a 12.50" wide tire which is only slightly wider than a 305. The difference in width between all them are so minimal, it's not really worth losing any sleep over. Chances are, the height difference between all of them will be more of a determining factor than the width.
I looked at a couple just to see when you posted this and there were multiple widths available. Certainly not unlimited, but the poster was interested in widths and I am sure he could get many choices for a 10.5 in a 33" tire if he wanted to. I don't think he said he was bound to a particular tire and model. And, its a "moot point."
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Unread 12-16-2013, 10:04 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
I looked at a couple just to see when you posted this and there were multiple widths available. Certainly not unlimited, but the poster was interested in widths and I am sure he could get many choices for a 10.5 in a 33" tire if he wanted to. I don't think he said he was bound to a particular tire and model. And, its a "moot point."


Multiple widths without a significant difference. You argued the minimal difference point with your buddy "charley3" using your fancy "physics"


33's in a 10.50" width would be better described as limited, not "many".



Texlurch is a perfect example of other factors determining the width of the tire for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Well, Goodyear decided this issue for me..

Was looking at Duratracs in 305/70-16. Lo and behold they no longer make that size.

So it's back to the 285/75-16 that I had originally looked at.

Factors other than a certain width determined my last tire purchase also.

I had narrowed my choices down to Toyo Open Country MT and Nitto Trail Grappler. Availability, load rating, and inspection laws where the biggest factors when I bought the Nitto Trail Grapplers for my Dodge. The Toyo's where all on back order so I was left with the Trail Grappler. I was basically left choosing between a 285/70, 285/75, and a 295/70R17. The 295 was the only one available in the Trail Grappler.

I went from a 37x13.50 Nitto Mud Grappler, so I was not limited by tire clearance.
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Unread 12-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #43
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Multiple widths without a significant difference. You argued the minimal difference point with your buddy "charley3" using your fancy "physics"


33's in a 10.50" width would be better described as limited, not "many".



.
I agree that it is not a big deal. There are some who feel strongly that a narrow tire gives better traction in snow and some think mud. I do prefer a narrower tire on the road. I think 12.5's tend to wander.
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Unread 12-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #44
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I wish there where enough options to really make the argument worth having.
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Unread 12-18-2013, 09:58 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by nickair544 View Post
Thanks Charlie, your post is just what I was interested in hearing feedback on. Do you have any advise on 15 inch wheel choices to clear the disc brakes on front and rear?
On my LJ Rubi, I ran BFG AT 33 x 10.5 R15 on American Racing Ansen Sprint 15 x 8 with 4.5 BS and had stock full turning radius and my fist fit between my round JKS LCA and tire at full turn. It turned on a dime with no rubbing.

A 15 x 8 with 4.5 BS had more than enough clearance for me.

I've read threads at this forum where guys are using Ravine 15 x 8 with 5.5 BS and happy with results. They say the had to adjust steer stops, but they said they could still turn sharp enough for their needs.

A 15 x 8 with 5" BS would be ideal, IMO (if you could find one).
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