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Unread 03-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #1
unobtanium
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Tire Help (245/60/18)

Most of my driving will be steep windy dry roads, but sometimes they will be steep, windy, wet, and or icy.

I value:

-Traction in inclement weather (snow and sleet included)
-Cornering stability and reaction to steering input


the highest, followed by:

-Noise/comfort
-Tread-life
-Cost

So far, this is what I am leaning towards:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....romSurvey=true

Does anyone else have any input/suggestions/reviews?

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Unread 03-05-2014, 01:17 PM   #2
paroxysym
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any reason you chose that size in particular?

after going through the tires that are offered in that size on tirerack, i would maybe go with the yokohomas- but the firestones seem very impressive.

ever look at discount tire direct? they offer free shipping and alot of savings/rebates and they offer falken and other brands that have great reputations for street tires (which sounds like what youre looking for)
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Unread 03-05-2014, 04:29 PM   #3
unobtanium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paroxysym View Post
any reason you chose that size in particular?

after going through the tires that are offered in that size on tirerack, i would maybe go with the yokohomas- but the firestones seem very impressive.

ever look at discount tire direct? they offer free shipping and alot of savings/rebates and they offer falken and other brands that have great reputations for street tires (which sounds like what youre looking for)
That's not my first choice, but Jeep put the rims on that they did, so it is what it is.

I'll head over there and have a look. Thanks!
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Unread 03-18-2014, 11:14 AM   #4
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Any other input before I click "purchase"?
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Unread 03-19-2014, 10:18 AM   #5
mschi772
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I have sent you a PM to make sure you get this, but here is a copy of the PM. I wrote it before I found this thread, so I had not yet known exactly what you were looking for, but I would still appreciate any elaboration you might be able to provide. Additionally, if you will be encountering temperatures of 45 deg F or below on a regular basis during winter and especially if snow/ice are to be expected regularly during that time, I recommend you consider getting winter tires mounted to a cheap set of wheels to switch to during that time. If such conditions are uncommon for you, all of the tires below have at least satisfactory performance in winter conditions. See below for a quoted post on why having winter tires is not actually any more expensive to you in the long run and only requires that you have somewhere to store a set of tires while they are not in use.

Quote:
Below is a rather large list. To at least one extent or another, I approve of all of the tires below, but I may not actually recommend all of them for you. Once you let me know what your conditions, priorities, activities, likes/dislikes, etc are, I can give you a more manageable list to work with. For now, this is something to chew on that we can work from.

I looks from my research that a stock WK can fit a tire size up to 31" in diameter and maybe a little more. If you upsized, you should have your speedo/odometer recalibrated. Not a big deal, really.

Sizes (approximate dimensions) that should fit:
  • 245/60r18 (29.6 x 9.6")
  • 255/60r18 (30 x 10")
  • 265/60r18 (30.5 x 10.4")

Street:
  • Firestone Destination ST (255/60)
  • Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G052 (265/60)

Highway/touring:
  • Firestone Destination LE2 (245/60)
  • General Grabber HTS (245/60)
  • Continental CrossContact LX20 Ecoplus (245/60)
  • Goodyear Assurance CS TripleTred (245/60, 255/60)
  • Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season (245/60, 255/60, 265/60)
  • Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia (245/60)
  • Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus (245/60, 265/60)
  • Michelin LTX MS2 (265/60)
  • Cooper Discoverer HT Plus (265/60)

Somewhere between highway and AT:
  • BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A (265/60)

All-terrain:
  • General Grabber AT2 (255/60)
  • Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure with Kevlar (265/60)
  • Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo 2 (265/60)
  • Firestone Destination A/T (265/60)
  • Goodyear Wranger Silent Armor (265/60)
  • Michelin LTX AT2 (265/60)
  • Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S (265/60)
  • Cooper Discoverer AT3 (265/60)
  • Hercules Terra Trac AT2 (265/60)
  • Toyo Open Country AT2 (265/60)
  • Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10 (255/60, 265/60)
  • Nitto Terra Grappler (255/60)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I never understand how people think that using a 2nd set of tires for winter is that much more expensive. During the months that you're driving on one set of tires, you're NOT using the other set. They each last longer time-wise than they would have on their own, and they each get exactly the same life distance-wise as they'd get on their own. In the long run, you're not really spending any more $ per mile with some wiggle room if your winter tires are more expensive or shorter-lived than your summer tires, but any difference should be fairly insignificant. It's only "expensive" in the short-run because you have to secure a 2nd set of tires at a time you wouldn't otherwise have bought tires, but after the initial purchase, they should slide right into your budget with minimal negative effect. Throw the winter tires on some cheap old wheels and the only downsides become storage and the biannual swapping of wheel/tire sets which shouldn't be any more work than normal if you sync the swap up with a time you'd normally be doing a tire rotation.
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Unread 03-19-2014, 10:34 AM   #6
mschi772
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Here is a post of mine from awhile back that I made for someone looking for a new tire for a cross-country road trip. Not everything here applies to you, and there may or may not be some slightly out-dated info, but I'm showing this to you because I'm already pretty sure that I'm going to end-up recommending at least these same tires to you depending on what you get back to me with. The Pirelli Scorpion Verde is almost certainly my #1 pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Asking about highway/touring tires on Jeepforum. I salute you. The slow response has less to do with the holiday in my opinion and more to do with the fact that these tires are completely alien to most guys here.

I'm not surprised that you find the TripleTreds to be uncomfortable. Their road traction is spectacular, but their handling and comfort are lackluster. On compact cars, those downfalls are hardly noticeable, but under the weight of a WK...I don't blame you.

Alright, here we go!
  • Firestone Destination LE: This is a hall-of-famer. It was very popular and for good reason. The Destination LE2 is out, and I feel it is even better. It is not a touring tire, but it is quite comfortable.
  • Bridgestone Dueler H/T 684 II AND Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia: The difference? The H/L is a touring tire vs the H/T being simply a highway tire, and the H/L is a clear winner between the two ESPECIALLY for you.
  • Hankook Dynapro H/T: A rather new tire I have no experience with and can find very little info about. Trying to judge it by look alone and the fact that it is not classified as a touring tire leads me to believe that we can ignore this one without missing-out in your case.
  • Michelin Cross Terrain: A decent tire, but not good enough to make the cut considering your other options in my opinion.
  • Michelin Latitude Tour: Ho-hum. Not even as nice as the Cross Terrains. They don't handle cold well and don't really excel in any one area.
  • Toyo A-20 Open Country: I have no experience with and can find very little info about. It is classified as highway instead of touring and can be found as an OEM tire on some vehicles. Being OEM isn't always bad, but it doesn't inspire optimism because it is the exception when a manufacturer picks a good tire as OEM, and then it's usually not a tire categorized as an OEM offering such as Duratracs (Chevy chose to put them on many fully-loaded ZR-2s). Moving on.
  • Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051: Good tire, but I'm not sure it's good enough to make the cut given how good the Destination LE2s are and because a touring tire is really what you're looking for given the cross-country driving. The G052 model makes sacrifices for looks, and the G053 is for heavy loads.
  • Cooper Discoverer H/T: Where the Destination LE2 reminds me of a milder version of my current Kumho RoadVenture SATs, these remind me of a milder version of Charley3's current Cooper Discoverer AT3s. I have no experience with them and can only find a little info out there, but I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt; I'm not sure Cooper is capable of making a BAD tire.
  • Continental Contitrac TR: Yucky! Consider Continental CrossContact LX20 instead. Great touring tires equal or greater than the Dueler H/L 422.
  • Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor: This is an AT tire. Great AT tire, but totally not what you're looking for.
  • Nexan Roadian H/T SUV: I've already got a shortened list for you in my mind, and this isn't on it. Let's get to it!


Here's my bottom line. These are the ultimate contenders you should be considering in my opinion, so let's split a few hairs:
  • Firestone Destination LE2: A highway tire, but a fantastic one. In my opinion, unless some new tires really prove themselves, it is the only choice in the highway category for SUVs.
  • Bridgestone Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia: Ironically, as great as this tire is, its handling may be a little worse than the TripleTreds when pushed to its limits such as higher speed cornering. This tire is quite popular and is a fantastic choice, but I feel like the REAL choice is between the two following tires because they're all the Dueler H/L is and more. Food for thought: compare the tread pattern of this tire to the FS Dest LE (not LE2). VERY similar. Both have been all-star tires, but FS has decided to leave the tread pattern behind. I'm not trying to imply anything; there's way more to a tire than just its tread pattern especially since I'm talking about tires from two different categories here, but it is food for thought nonetheless.
  • Pirelli Scorpion Verde: The bottom line here is that this is the Dueler H/L but with better handling and better traction in less than ideal conditions (water, snow). I believe that from your perspective, this is also all the TripleTreds are to you as well as better handling and nicer ride.
  • Continental CrossContact LX20: A VERY close call between this on and the Scorpion Verde. Long story short, if temps will be warmer with more rain encountered, the Continental would be my choice. If colder temperatures are in the forecast with snow likely to be encountered, the Pirelli (and maybe even the Dueler H/L even more so) will likely handle the snow better. I'm REALLY splitting hairs at this point; you can't lose with either one.
(Yeah, I know, my two picks weren't even on your list to begin with. If for some reason you don't have access to them, my pick is the Dueler H/L hands-down.)

Rolling resistance is quite low on all of the tires above, so I wouldn't be concerned about fuel economy. Being a different class of tire, I'm not sure how the FS Dest LE2 compares to the tourers, but as a highway tire, it is quite easy on fuel.

Make sure you get a tire with a load rating appropriate to your vehicle. According to wkjeeps.com, your 2wd 4.7 WK has a curb weight of 4368 lbs. Like Charley3 said, tire pressure is super important, and do not trust the tire shop to get it right.

You know, if your heart isn't really in your current Jeep, and you're planning on selling it soonish and don't feel that buying new tires is a good investment for you, TripleTreds are great tires. I've made numerous comments about how other tires are better, but they may not be better ENOUGH to justify the cost for a few months of ownership. You may not be too happy with the TripleTreds, but are you sure your problem is definitely with THEM and not your WK? Do they have the appropriate pressure? It's amazing how so many people, including professionals, get a simple thing like tire pressure all wrong. More pressure is not necessarily better, nor is less pressure. Every vehicle has an ideal tire pressure for a given tire size and application. I'm not telling you that your WK is to blame or that getting better tires won't be a good investment. If I was you, I'd give a new, better tire a go despite how good TripleTreds are especially if a WK2 uses the same tire size and your local shop would just swap them to the new vehicle for you when that day comes. I'm just exploring some thoughts I've had based on comments you've made.

Regarding other things to get it ready to go...fresh fluid changes beforehand for sure. Give your brakes a thorough check-up, and if you're almost due for a tune-up, you might as well get that out of the way before the trip as well. I'm not sure how or where the spare tire is secured on a WK, but make sure it's in good shape and will be able to be accessed/removed (for example, the underbody ones really like to rust into place) if needed. Make sure you've got some emergency roadside gear packed: jumper cables, handful of commonly-needed tools, lights/flares, rain coat, first aid, etc.

P.S. "Highway tire" and "all season" are not mutually exclusive as Charley3 seemed to imply earlier. All of the tires I've discussed are "all season" tires while ALSO being either "highway" or "touring."

P.P.S. *BLUSH* I read through this thread a few times and only this last time caught the part where Charley3 referred to me. I'm flattered. Had I gotten to you first, I'd have referred you to him. He and I don't always feel the same ways about things, but we're both "tire guys" who are pretty active around here, and I respect the hell out of him and his opinions. Like anyone, my advice comes with my own biases, so I welcome feedback/disagreement/counterpoint/devil's advocacy/etc. You may want to ask the WK guys in that forum if there's anything WK-specific to be aware of for a long trip.



IMPORTANT! DISCLAIMER! I just saw your profile say that you're using GY Fortenza (you mean Fortera?) TripleTreds. I'm only familiar with the GY Assurance TripleTred All-Season. The Fortera model was the truck/SUV version and has been discontinued; it did get similar reviews to the Assurance, though; for this reason I will leave any comments/comparisons I've made to the TripleTreds in place above.

Fortera TripleTred vs Assurance TripleTred
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Unread 03-19-2014, 10:58 AM   #7
unobtanium
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My GY Forteras are whatever came on it stock. Certainly not a tripple-tread.

I lean very hard toward the Destination LE2. My Forteras are on the wear-bars, and I don't even consider that I "know" that tire, as it was dead when I got it 2 weeks ago.

Primary use is highway, incliment weather (snow/sleet/rain). The reason I am not considering "winter tires" is that in NW Arkansas, you may have snow one week. Then 3 weeks in the 60-70's, and then snow and 20's again. It would be a royal PITA not to just have a good "do-all", as it were. It's not like I am living in North Dakota where you KNOW what you're getting.

Will the LE2's absolutely suck in mud? By mud, I mean driving off the shoulder of the road for whatever reason (pull over on a country road with no shoulders, want to cut across for whatever reason, whatever.) I don't mean "mud riding".
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Unread 03-19-2014, 11:16 AM   #8
mschi772
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From PM:
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtanium
Awesome!!!

My priorities:

Wet hydroplaning resistance
Snow/Ice
Handling
Gravel/Mud (think old logging road, nothing crazy)
Treadlife
Cost

In that order.

90% pavement use, 5% driveway/badly maintained dirt/gravel road, 5% rocky creekbed type stuff.

I am moving to NW Arkansas. I will live on a mountainside, and they don't plow snow there. I expect 5-10" per year, on a heavy year.

I had previously considered the Destination LE2.
Well, here's my newest version of the list. I've listed them roughly from least aggressive to most aggressive. The list order also corresponds to most comfortable to least comfortable and POSSIBLY from best MPG to worst MPG. The differences in comfort and MPG from one end to the other are quite small even despite the GY Adventure's aggressive looks. I removed many of the street and highway tires due to your encounters with winter weather and slightly rugged conditions. I removed most of the AT tires given your focus on street and mild conditions; you have no need nor use for such aggressive tires.
  • Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season (245/60, 255/60, 265/60)
  • Continental CrossContact LX20 Ecoplus (245/60, 255/65, 265/65, 275/60)
  • Goodyear Assurance CS TripleTred (245/60, 255/60, 265/65)
  • Firestone Destination LE2 (245/60)
  • Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure with Kevlar (255/65, 265/60, 265/65)

Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
My GY Forteras are whatever came on it stock. Certainly not a tripple-tread.

I lean very hard toward the Destination LE2. My Forteras are on the wear-bars, and I don't even consider that I "know" that tire, as it was dead when I got it 2 weeks ago.

Primary use is highway, incliment weather (snow/sleet/rain). The reason I am not considering "winter tires" is that in NW Arkansas, you may have snow one week. Then 3 weeks in the 60-70's, and then snow and 20's again. It would be a royal PITA not to just have a good "do-all", as it were. It's not like I am living in North Dakota where you KNOW what you're getting.

Will the LE2's absolutely suck in mud? By mud, I mean driving off the shoulder of the road for whatever reason (pull over on a country road with no shoulders, want to cut across for whatever reason, whatever.) I don't mean "mud riding".
There are different models of Fortera, and what used to be the Fortera TripleTred has long since been changed to the Assurance CS TripleTred.

I can understand that (snow tires). I probably wouldn't get them in that situation either.

Assuming you have some form of 4wd, any of these tires should handle being on gravel/dirt fine. As much as I love the Pirellis, they might struggle a little bit in something rougher. If you wouldn't feel peace of mind with them, then skip them just to be safe. I'd be careful of driving through light mud mixed with wet grass with most tires, though--a situation that fits your description. If you're talking about driving through a dirt road that is wet to the point that it is turning slick/muddy/mucky...hmmm, the Firestones might be OK in 4wd, but that's pushing it.
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Unread 03-19-2014, 11:26 AM   #9
unobtanium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
From PM:


Well, here's my newest version of the list. I've listed them roughly from least aggressive to most aggressive. I removed many of the street and highway tires due to your encounters with winter weather and slightly rugged conditions. I removed most of the AT tires given your focus on street and mild conditions; you have no need nor use for such aggressive tires.
  • Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season (245/60, 255/60, 265/60)
  • Continental CrossContact LX20 Ecoplus (245/60, 255/65, 265/65, 275/60)
  • Firestone Destination LE2 (245/60)
  • Goodyear Assurance CS TripleTred (245/60, 255/60, 265/65)
  • Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure with Kevlar (255/65, 265/60, 265/65)
Didn't Tire-Rack do a test that showed the Pirelli's coming in well below the LX20's?

I'm pretty set on LX20 or LE2. Which would you recommend? The LX20's seem to have some reviews with out of balance issues.

Is there a reason you would recommend one of the other tires above those two?

Here is a picture that details what I will encounter, at worst, imo (taken from the area I am moving to, I believe. Someone sent it to me, and I am on the state line (5 minutes from).:

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Unread 03-19-2014, 11:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
Didn't Tire-Rack do a test that showed the Pirelli's coming in well below the LX20's?

I'm pretty set on LX20 or LE2. Which would you recommend? The LX20's seem to have some reviews with out of balance issues.

Is there a reason you would recommend one of the other tires above those two?

Here is a picture that details what I will encounter, at worst, imo (taken from the area I am moving to, I believe. Someone sent it to me, and I am on the state line (5 minutes from).:

This test? http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=176
Their test only demonstrated a suffering in wet traction *compared to the LX Sport*, and they speculated there was a specific manufacturing issue at play at the time that Pirelli proceeded to investigate as a result of the testing. I'm not sure what developed.

Here is a Tirerack test featuring the Continental CrossContact LX20. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=157
I'm aware of Tirerack, its reviews, and their testing, but all of that is only part of the research that I use in addition to my personal experiences to provide advice.

The Contis are one of my favorite tires. Every tire/manufacturer has its issues and alleged issues. Out-of-round happens to everyone from time to time, and its also a popular faux complaint of from people who have poor alignment or balance. Some shops would rather convince a customer that the tire is not round rather than admit they're too lazy to balance properly to save face. I don't worry too much about complaints like these.

The LE2's are another tire I'm extremely fond of and a contender for being the next tire on my XJ. They have some ramped areas in the tread that bug me a little bit because ramping changes the shape of the tread as the tires wear, but it doesn't seem to have harmed this tire in any noticeable way, and ramping does have advantages which is no doubt why it was used in the first place.

For you, I'd be comfortable forgetting the Pirellis and the TripleTreds. I left the Adventures on there to provide you with a tougher, rugged tire option in the event I'd underestimated what you sometimes drive through. It would certainly handled your snow and non-street situations better, but if they're mild and uncommon--and especially if you feel like it's more tire than you need--then I'd be very comfortable with either the Contis or the Firestones.

One other tire I MIGHT add back in if you want something between the Firestones and the Adventures would be the BFG Rugged Terrains. They're a stylized tire originally marketed as a highway tire but have been switched (and I disagree) to AT. I wouldn't personally be comfortable using them in Wisconsin winters, but an Alabama JeepForum member reported that he was very satisfied with how they go him through their freak snow this winter, so they could be similarly satisfactory for you. Basically, if you look at them and love their looks and want them, go for it. They're virtually never one of my top picks, but they're always on my radar because they're not bad tires.
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Unread 03-19-2014, 12:14 PM   #11
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How will the tires mentioned do in the picture above? Also, ice traction?
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Unread 03-19-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
How will the tires mentioned do in the picture above? Also, ice traction?
None of them will handle pure ice well. Winter-specific tires and/or studded tires are the only thing you can do for ice, and even with them you still have to drive slowly and carefully if you can't avoid it. Ice is ice--there's not much you can do about it, and avoid it if you can.

In the conditions above (appears to be hard packed snow, slush, and some ice), all of the tires I recommended will get you from point A to point B quite well for an all-season tire--better than most others; I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of those tires in your area for year-round use. You probably shouldn't even need to engage 4wd in that (BUT BE CAREFUL). Even if you have 4wd and quality winter tires, you still have to be careful. Especially with 4wd, people get to thinking they can handle it and are immune, but 4wd doesn't help you steer or stop when you need to, and that's how morons end-up going off the road or rear-ending people or worse. Even with winter tires, your handling in snow is compromised, acceleration is difficult, and stopping distance is dramatically lengthened.

P.S. I have decided that General Grabber HTS should have remained on the recommended list. It doesn't bring anything new to the party, but it's just as good a highway tire as the Firestone LE2 and also one of my own personal contenders for the future.
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Unread 03-19-2014, 12:36 PM   #13
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Well, I like the Destination LE2 and Wrangler w/ Kevlar so far as my top 2. Decisions :/
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Unread 03-19-2014, 12:53 PM   #14
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
Well, I like the Destination LE2 and Wrangler w/ Kevlar so far as my top 2. Decisions :/
You'll have to change tire size slightly for the GY's, but 265/60r18 is only about 1" larger in diameter and 1" wider. It should fit just fine and not really throw your odometer/speedometer off. Check your speedo against a gps or smartphone app while driving at 65 mph on level ground just to be sure, but I wager it will be accurate.

If you ever want to get adventurous (lol: pun), then the Goodyears would give you a bit more security to tackle such conditions. I'd certainly place way more trust in them off the beaten path not only in regards to traction but in regards to toughness as well--that kevlar makes them especially puncture resistant. If not, then I say just choose whichever one your gut likes more and/or whichever one you can find the best $ deal on. Goodyear is offering an $80 rebate on 4 right now, and Firestone has a $50 rebate.

Using Tirerack prices with rebates, the LE2's are about $600 for 4, and the Aventures are $728 for 4.
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Unread 03-19-2014, 12:54 PM   #15
unobtanium
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
You'll have to change tire size slightly for the GY's, but 265/60r18 is only about 0.5" larger in diameter and 1" wider. It should fit just fine and not really throw your odometer/speedometer off. Check your speedo against a gps or smartphone app while driving at 65 mph on level ground just to be sure, but I wager it will be accurate.

If you ever want to get adventurous (lol: pun), then the Goodyears would give you a bit more security to tackle such conditions. If not, then I say just choose whichever one your gut likes more and/or whichever one you can find the best $ deal on.
I'll save the $200 and go LE2, then. Thanks a ton!
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