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Pizza cutter tires: pros and cons

13K views 21 replies 13 participants last post by  Ed209 
#1 ·
So what are the advantages and disadvantages of tall skinny tires? I am specifically looking at the 35x10 TSL SXII tires. This set of tires would hardly see any road miles, so on road characteristics doesn't really matter. I am thinking this would help keep the tires off the control arms but still give me some more ground clearance (I am currently running 33x12.5 TSLs) while not killing the D30, but not sure if it would hurt off road performance with a skinnier tire.
 
#7 ·
I bought 33X10" tires for my WK because I want to keep all the turning radius I can, and I believe they are better in the terrain I run. Haven't gotten the lift on yet, so can't give a personal assessment, but I did study the question of width for many hours, and I'm an engineer so I'm pretty good at sorting out reasons that matter to me from personal preference of an author, or an application they have but I don't.

Many people buy their tires for looks, and wide tires look tougher than narrow tires to most people. I'm not immune to how my vehicle looks, but I also think 10" wide mud tread looks pretty tough. You also have very few options for narrow tires, unless your rim size is 15". My WK needs 17" rims minimum to clear the brakes, so I found only a few options that were 10.5" or less.
Looking at articles where a scientific approach was taken, narrower tires almost always do better off-road, and where they don't it's a negligible difference. For things like jeeps, on road you will notice they don't wander in the ruts as bad (I have seen this personally on several rigs), they don't bump steer as bad, and they don't pull in the water puddles as bad. Many people intuitively think you get a bigger footprint with a wider tire, but that is not true at the same psi.

When you air down, your footprint area is exactly the weight on each tire divided by the psi you select (this was a test question on an engineering exam). With a wide tire, it will be a wider pattern but the same area. With a narrow tire, it will be a longer pattern with the same area. For sand, there is a theory that a wide pattern keeps you on top when you're already moving, but I don't buy it. I think the sand comes down to how many pounds per square inch you expect it to hold up. With really deep mud that you're going to try to fly across at high speed and stay floating, I do buy the theory that the wider front pattern keeps you up on top. I don't know anybody, other than during a competition, that flies into mudholes so fast they will skip across.

For rocks, logs, and tree roots, narrow is better (at the same psi) because it will wrap over the edge that you're trying to get over and pull you over it (think of a log sideways, or a big rock step up). A wide tire in that instance will create a wide grip of this edge, and be less inclined to step over it.

For turning radius, tire clearance, and part wear, narrow is absolutely better. I've excluded the discussion of high speed pavement use, because this forum is offroad, but wider is better for high speed pavement where you're sliding around corners and cooking your tires. So, put wide tires on your corvette or crotch rocket, and narrow ones on your trail rig, in my opinion.

And don't believe your tire store when they tell you they don't exist. Those guys have a limited catalog from each manufacturer, and when they told me nobody made a 33X10.5, I found several on the internet, including the 33.3"X10" tires, then I told those guys exactly what to order. They ordered tires their computer said didn't exist.
 
#11 ·
I bought 33X10" tires for my WK because I want to keep all the turning radius I can, and I believe they are better in the terrain I run. Haven't gotten the lift on yet, so can't give a personal assessment, but I did study the question of width for many hours, and I'm an engineer so I'm pretty good at sorting out reasons that matter to me from personal preference of an author, or an application they have but I don't.

Many people buy their tires for looks, and wide tires look tougher than narrow tires to most people. I'm not immune to how my vehicle looks, but I also think 10" wide mud tread looks pretty tough. You also have very few options for narrow tires, unless your rim size is 15". My WK needs 17" rims minimum to clear the brakes, so I found only a few options that were 10.5" or less.
Looking at articles where a scientific approach was taken, narrower tires almost always do better off-road, and where they don't it's a negligible difference. For things like jeeps, on road you will notice they don't wander in the ruts as bad (I have seen this personally on several rigs), they don't bump steer as bad, and they don't pull in the water puddles as bad. Many people intuitively think you get a bigger footprint with a wider tire, but that is not true at the same psi.

When you air down, your footprint area is exactly the weight on each tire divided by the psi you select (this was a test question on an engineering exam). With a wide tire, it will be a wider pattern but the same area. With a narrow tire, it will be a longer pattern with the same area. For sand, there is a theory that a wide pattern keeps you on top when you're already moving, but I don't buy it. I think the sand comes down to how many pounds per square inch you expect it to hold up. With really deep mud that you're going to try to fly across at high speed and stay floating, I do buy the theory that the wider front pattern keeps you up on top. I don't know anybody, other than during a competition, that flies into mudholes so fast they will skip across.

For rocks, logs, and tree roots, narrow is better (at the same psi) because it will wrap over the edge that you're trying to get over and pull you over it (think of a log sideways, or a big rock step up). A wide tire in that instance will create a wide grip of this edge, and be less inclined to step over it.

For turning radius, tire clearance, and part wear, narrow is absolutely better. I've excluded the discussion of high speed pavement use, because this forum is offroad, but wider is better for high speed pavement where you're sliding around corners and cooking your tires. So, put wide tires on your corvette or crotch rocket, and narrow ones on your trail rig, in my opinion.

And don't believe your tire store when they tell you they don't exist. Those guys have a limited catalog from each manufacturer, and when they told me nobody made a 33X10.5, I found several on the internet, including the 33.3"X10" tires, then I told those guys exactly what to order. They ordered tires their computer said didn't exist.
I like your science, and I agree with it, but what about on road stability? I would love to find a 34x10.5x17 tire, but don't want a bias ply. My jeep is a daily drive. I like the bfg mud terrain 255-80-17!! Wish there were more choices.
 
#10 ·
I like tall skinny tires, not alot of choices though. I have a set of Q78 TSL for the JK and would like to get a 38.5x11 Boggers.

Tall skinny tires give you the same ground clearance as the wider tires, but require less tire clearance to make them fit, are lighter, and have their advantages in certain areas.
 
#17 ·
I wish I had a way to test different widths in the sand. I'm sure you're aware that tire pressure means more than anything, so I'm wondering what pressure you're running.

I've always found that getting under 10psi is like magic (8 is good), but I can peel a bead easier than I'd like. I don't have trouble re-seating them, but I'd still rather not stop and hook up compressors.

I've only had these 10" wide tires on the sand once, and I was running about 12psi if I recall. It wasn't as good as I hoped, but I was able to climb the face of the bowl if I hit where I could carry momentum through the whoops. Next time I go in the dunes, I'll air down to 8 and try it again.
 
#15 ·
These are the tires I bought. I haven't run them enough to be sure they're the best, but they haven't let me down yet. I wish the sidewalls had more tread on them, but this was the only narrow tire I found that was close to the tread I wanted.
 
#18 ·
I don't drop my psi too much because I don't have a spare. I run about 28-30 on the road, but I drop to about 20 in the sand. That's not too much of a drop, but it works for me. My tires are about 12" wide, so they tend to "float" really well on sand.
 
#20 ·
I went nuts and put that ARB dual compressor setup in my GC, so re-seating and airing back up is no problem (I have a regulator and manifold setup that does all 4 tires to 32psi at once, and stops automatically). Before that, I was using a cheap MF-50 then a nicer VIAIR 400, and either of those would re-seat a bead if I jack the rig up. I've never had to use my spare.

I think 20 wouldn't be low enough (for climbing) on my heavier rigs, but if that's working on your wrangler that would be great. I'm always afraid to cut the wheel as hard as I want when I'm so low, since I've peeled a lot of beads. If I could run 15" rims, I saw a number of designs that claim to reduce peeling, but my brakes require a 17" rim and I didn't find such options.

Just FYI, here's my setup airing all 4 tires at once. The regulator pops off at 32, and the compressors shut off when the tank gets up to something like 120, and it all takes about 4 minutes.

 
#19 ·
The general consensus I've seen is that thinner tires are better in light to moderate snow because you WANT the tire to sink fully to the road surface. Mud of course can extend very deep so that's a different situation
 
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