Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one! - Page 56 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Tires & Wheels > Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one!

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineThe Solution to Radius Arm Bind - Meet Lock-N-LoadFS: Jeep Fog Light LED Bulbs! Several Brightness Options!

Reply
Unread 08-10-2014, 02:46 PM   #826
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Not even Uniroyal Laredo HD/T?
No.

I thought it was a hybrid, aggressive AT, or commercial traction tire (call it whichever of those terms makes you happy), but when I called Uniroyal about it, I learned it's a Winter tire specifically and they couldn't tell me for sure if it was a year round use Winter tire. There is also very few sizes and load ratings suitable for Jeeps.

I might consider using Hercules Avalanche Extreme LT on a Jeep though. It's a Winter tire than can be used year round, if your off road adventures aren't going to be scraping sidewalls on rocks and if you live in a climate where Summer days seldom go above 80F or 85F.

From what I've seen online, some people in Northern USA and Canada use them year round (unstudded), though I think most stud them and use them for Winter only. Studs are very helpful for ice. For snow studs aren't needed. This is the only Winter tire I've seen that offers some good sizes and load ratings suitable for Jeeps, such as 235/75R15, 31x10.5R15, 245/75R16C, and 265/75R16C. However, they don't make a 30x9.5R15. So I can't try this tire.

__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 03:09 PM   #827
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzer23 View Post
I would never buy winter tires living in TN considering I had the revo 2s and pulled a car up a hill on ice. I purposely would get out at 2am when it iced and go play. I always did the speed limit and never slid. It was hard to make it slide at all, granted the truck was under powered but that means I could drive the speed limit and never worry and never wreck.
In 30 years driving, I never had problems on ice either (using ATs on Jeep and unstudded Winter tires on cars).

Until last Winter here. Last Winter here was worst in 100 years (the news said). I believe it. ATs and unstudded Winter tires weren't getting it done last Winter. Even people with chains couldn't go up icy hills here last Winter. Only people with studs AND 4wd or limited slip could drive up the steep hills here last Winter.

There's many types of ice and many different conditions. Sooner or later you'll encounter one that will humble you.

I got humbled last Winter without studs. Even so, I have no plans to buy studded tires because it was only once in 30 years I couldn't get er done without studs. And let me point out that I get more snow and ice than you do in TN. Even so, I'm not ready to get studs when it's rare I'd need them.

If I get humbled again, I might be getting a set of studded tires. Don't hold your breath Mschi, it might be another 30 years. For now, I'm going to focus on Winter rated ATs. Cooper is supposed to release a new one next Fall called Cooper AWT.

But I do admit that last Winter I started envying people with studded tires. You never thought you'd live to hear me say that, did you Mschi? I hope Wilson doesn't read this. His gloating will cause me pain.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 04:22 PM   #828
cruzer23
Registered User
2002 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: la vergne, tn
Posts: 123
I'm in the south. It hasn't snowed or ice here in 3 years. I think I'll be just fine lol
cruzer23 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 04:34 PM   #829
mschi772
Web Wheeler
 
mschi772's Avatar
1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 2,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
But I do admit that last Winter I started envying people with studded tires. You never thought you'd live to hear me say that, did you Mschi? I hope Wilson doesn't read this. His gloating will cause me pain.
I generally don't approve of studs personally. Many states including my home of WI have outlawed studs due to their damaging nature. Many quality studless tires perform just as good (some better) than studded tires even on ice these days, and studs will HURT traction in dry and nearly dry conditions. By "dry" I mean when roads are effectively clear or only lightly powdered.

I'm not about to give you any crap. I know you're informed and smart enough to make solid decisions that you'll be confident living with one way or the other.
mschi772 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 07:59 PM   #830
chevy2169
Registered User
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Amherst, MA
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772
I generally don't approve of studs personally. Many states including my home of WI have outlawed studs due to their damaging nature. Many quality studless tires perform just as good (some better) than studded tires even on ice these days, and studs will HURT traction in dry and nearly dry conditions. By "dry" I mean when roads are effectively clear or only lightly powdered. I'm not about to give you any crap. I know you're informed and smart enough to make solid decisions that you'll be confident living with one way or the other.
I'll agree with what you've said here. Studded tires do have their place, in most situations they aren't needed though. Most cars here in New England that I've seen running winter tires, don't have studs.
Massachusetts hasn't outlawed studs, but you have to remove your studded tires by March I believe, it might be the first of April.
Again, I've seen very few studded tires here, and I work at a shop where we deal with this often.

As far as year round winter tires, and this is directed at Charley's posts, why would you want them? Winter tires have a much softer compound and wear much faster than regular all season tires. You might see 30k miles out of a set of car winter tires, I would assume trucks would be the same or worse due to weight. That's horrible as far as cost is concerned. The reason winter tires last through many winters is because they're swapped out usually in the spring, and the roads aren't perfectly dry and clean during the winter.

IMO it would be very ineffective, cost wise, to run a winter tire year round. You'd be buying tires every year and a half to two years. Just my two cents.
__________________
Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipsh**s.
chevy2169 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 08:56 PM   #831
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy2169 View Post
I'll agree with what you've said here. Studded tires do have their place, in most situations they aren't needed though. Most cars here in New England that I've seen running winter tires, don't have studs.
Massachusetts hasn't outlawed studs, but you have to remove your studded tires by March I believe, it might be the first of April.
Again, I've seen very few studded tires here, and I work at a shop where we deal with this often.

As far as year round winter tires, and this is directed at Charley's posts, why would you want them? Winter tires have a much softer compound and wear much faster than regular all season tires. You might see 30k miles out of a set of car winter tires, I would assume trucks would be the same or worse due to weight. That's horrible as far as cost is concerned. The reason winter tires last through many winters is because they're swapped out usually in the spring, and the roads aren't perfectly dry and clean during the winter.

IMO it would be very ineffective, cost wise, to run a winter tire year round. You'd be buying tires every year and a half to two years. Just my two cents.
Typical year-round-use Winter tires last 40K miles on a car or a light to medium weight vehicle. My car weighs 3800 lbs. I have Hankook Ipike on my Buick Park Ave and they have a 40K rating for year-round-use. I think they also have a 40K warranty. I've had them for a couple years now, and they show no signs of wear. Keep in mind though, most Summer days here are below 85F. We only occasionally get to 90F. Three years ago it did get in the mid 90s to 100F for a couple weeks and I continued driving my Ipikes all Summer with no signs of wear.

The rubber hardness of the tread of year-round-use Winter tires is between a dedicated Winter tire and an All Season tire. The year-round-use Winter tires are like a soft all season, which is harder than a dedicated Winter only tire.

The grip is superior on wet pavement to all season tires, especially when temp below 40F. That's at least half the year here. Wet and cold between 33F to 40F very often here. Sometimes wet, colder, and frozen. My tire store guy uses the same Hankook Winter Ipike tires on his cars year round as he sold me.

The year-round-use Winter tires are a lot better than you make them out to be, and in my climate they have some advantages (see prior paragraph). Their weaknesses are they're marginal on ice when unstudded, and they wear faster if temps go above 90F. However, we didn't had one day above 90F last Summer, and this Summer we have had only two days of 91F. So no worries about wear on hot days over 90F because we don't get much of that. But even on the days we got over 95F three Summers ago, I didn't notice any wear. After 3 years my Ipikes still look almost new. I think that's around 15K miles and they still look almost new.

They serve me well on my car as an adhoc AT. AT are not available in sizes for my car. My car has to drive on rocked roads often and the tires have been holding up much better than highway tires or all season tires. I used to get flats with highway tires. My year-round-use Winter tires have never got a flat. They've also been good in mud and snow. Not so good on ice though. Overall they've been great on my car, except for reducing my gas mileage 2 or 3 mph compared to highway tires.

But for my Jeep, I'll stay with ATs since they come in sizes for my Jeep and they are more durable off road. I specifically prefer Winter rated ATs when I can get them, though my current ATs are not Winter rated.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #832
chevy2169
Registered User
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Amherst, MA
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3
Typical year round use Winter tires last 40K miles on a car or a light to medium weight vehicle. My car weighs 3800 lbs. I have Hankook Ipike on my Buick Park Ave and they have a 40K rating for year round use. I think they might also have a 40K warranty. I've had them for a couple years now, and they show no signs of wear. Keep in mind though, most Summer days here are below 85F. We only occasionally get to 90F. The rubber hardness of the tread of year round use Winter tires is between a dedicated Winter tire and an All Season tire. The grip is superior on wet pavement to all season tires, especially when temp below 40F. That's at least half the year here. Wet and cold between 33F to 40F very often here. Sometimes wet, colder, and frozen. The year round use Winter tires are a lot better than you make them out to be, and in my climate they have a lot of advantages. Their weakness is they're only marginal on ice when unstudded, and they wear fast if temps are above 90F. However, we haven't had one day above 90F last Summer, and this Summer we have a couple days of 91F. So no worries about wear on hot days over 90F because we don't get much of that. They serve me well on my car as an adhoc AT. AT are not available in sizes for my car. My car has to drive on rocked roads often and the tires have been holding up much better than highway tires or all season tires. I used to get flats with highway tires. My year round use Winter tires have never got a flat. They've also been good in mud. and snow. Not so good on ice though. Overall they've been great on my car, except for reducing my gas mileage 2 or 3 mph compared to highway tires. But for my Jeep, I'll probably stay with ATs since they come in sizes for my Jeep and they are more durable off road.
Good info. I didn't know that winter tires went to 40k. I didn't even know they made winter tires for all season use. Still seems low for a car tire. I guess you sacrifice a little to gain a little though.

I don't know whereabouts you live, but here in New England the summer would wear those down fast. We get decent winters, but summers can get up toward 100 degrees sometimes. Keep in mind it isn't always the hot asphalt that is wearing them, just regular dry asphalt is enough to eat up some winter tires. I'm not sure if that'd apply to a year round winter tire, but I know first hand it does to regular winter tires.
__________________
Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipsh**s.
chevy2169 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-10-2014, 09:29 PM   #833
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy2169 View Post
Good info. I didn't know that winter tires went to 40k. I didn't even know they made winter tires for all season use. Still seems low for a car tire. I guess you sacrifice a little to gain a little though.

I don't know whereabouts you live, but here in New England the summer would wear those down fast. We get decent winters, but summers can get up toward 100 degrees sometimes. Keep in mind it isn't always the hot asphalt that is wearing them, just regular dry asphalt is enough to eat up some winter tires. I'm not sure if that'd apply to a year round winter tire, but I know first hand it does to regular winter tires.
Well, it seldom goes above 90F here. I used to keep driving my car even if temps went to 100F, which only happens here every 3rd year or so. The Ipike tires held up to the 100F days, even though I know it wasn't good for them.

However, now that I have an XJ for my second car, I just drive it during any days over 85F. So now my car's Ipike tires should last a good 50K or 55K miles since they aren't driving on hot days anymore.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-11-2014, 12:42 PM   #834
970001zj
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,101
hankook atms are b temp

they slip a little easier on 90º + days but dominate in the cold even down to - 30º
__________________
97 orvis stock engine/trans 308,000 miles as of 10/13/2014
970001zj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-11-2014, 01:11 PM   #835
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post
hankook atms are b temp

they slip a little easier on 90º + days but dominate in the cold even down to - 30º
That's good to know about the Hankook ATM, but I was talking about Hankook Ipike.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-31-2014, 01:17 AM   #836
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,729
The Cooper AT/W has arrived. See Cooper's website.

Cooper described it to me (in an email) as similar to being an AT3 with more sipes and a Winter traction rating. Less durable on rocks, but more traction on Winter roads. Similar in other conditions.

This will likely be a good AT for people in Northern climates. Though at this time it's to new to have seen any reviews.

Size availability is limited at this time, but (allegedly) more sizes and load ranges will be added over the next 6 months to a year.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-31-2014, 05:28 AM   #837
Muddeprived
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wexford, PA
Posts: 5,187
Lots of Cooper lovers here.
__________________
2001 XJ Sport 4.5" RC LA
Custom snorkel
Detours/winch
Flux Capacitor Heat Machine
Muddeprived is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-31-2014, 06:48 AM   #838
mschi772
Web Wheeler
 
mschi772's Avatar
1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 2,178


I like it. I'm sad that tire manufacturers are always hesitant to release 15" sizes these days and instead give most of their attention to 16, 17, 18, but I suppose consumers and auto manufacturers are to blame. Few smaller trucks and true SUV's are made, and fewer of them ever leave the road; combined with the public's desire to see big wheels and small rubber... No matter, if I wanted a Cooper AT tire, I'd buy the AT3 anyway since I'm a true winter tire user.
mschi772 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-31-2014, 06:55 AM   #839
CJ7nvrstk
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Prosper, Tx
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddeprived View Post
Lots of Cooper lovers here.
IMHO some of them carry it a bit farther than lovers. More like an obsession with the crazy stalker/murderer infatuation! It's comical how they live on every word of Coopers advertising and have taken it in hook, line, & sinker and gleefully regurgitate that garbage here. I mean really, "less durable on rocks" for example. Come on now! Who uses these AT3s on rocks anyways? No one I know. I'm not sure how long the AT3s have been on the market but I have yet to see ANY Cooper AT3s on the trail. Ever! Not 1! And that's wheeling in Missouri, TX, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, California, and Arizona. Not 1 set on the trail! Have seen lots of other ATs; BFG, Toyo, Nitto, Generals, Pro Comp, and even many of the off brand lower budget tires.... But NEVER Coopers! As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

FWIW though, I do need a good street tire and am actually considering them due to their small but rabid following on this board.
__________________
RED Friday. Remember Everyone Deployed
CJ7nvrstk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-31-2014, 07:40 AM   #840
mschi772
Web Wheeler
 
mschi772's Avatar
1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 2,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7nvrstk View Post
IMHO some of them carry it a bit farther than lovers. More like an obsession with the crazy stalker/murderer infatuation! It's comical how they live on every word of Coopers advertising and have taken it in hook, line, & sinker and gleefully regurgitate that garbage here. I mean really, "less durable on rocks" for example. Come on now! Who uses these AT3s on rocks anyways? No one I know. I'm not sure how long the AT3s have been on the market but I have yet to see ANY Cooper AT3s on the trail. Ever! Not 1! And that's wheeling in Missouri, TX, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, California, and Arizona. Not 1 set on the trail! Have seen lots of other ATs; BFG, Toyo, Nitto, Generals, Pro Comp, and even many of the off brand lower budget tires.... But NEVER Coopers! As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

FWIW though, I do need a good street tire and am actually considering them due to their small but rabid following on this board.
Do you always have to be such a crotch? I mean, you've even taken this so far as to wage your petty little war with your forum signature. You're sad. I'm pretty sure you have all kinds of valuable knowledge to share, but ever since I've noticed the pattern to your conduct around here, I've been incapable of taking anything you say about any topic seriously because of my tainted impression of you. I wonder how you'll rationalize this since I'm NOT one of the Cooper loyalists, so you can't simply blow me off by saying that I'm just one of the Cooper fanboys lashing out at you.

I'm fine with your opinion of things differing from others/myself; what irks me is that you're almost never constructive/productive/informative in your criticisms, and almost always try to belittle/insult instead of supporting your opinion with any kind of solid facts or personal experiences. People come here to learn, not to be ridiculed and bullied.
mschi772 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.