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Unread 06-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #751
ArchStanton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman
OK yes, the AXT is the new one. It's got a nice pattern. The Hercules does also. But the Cooper branded AT3 has the best pattern of all. Much more open for mud and snow evacuation.
The new Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 is worth looking at, and it has a 3 ply sidewall. Cooper owns MT and Dick Cepek.

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Unread 06-24-2014, 09:40 PM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman
Mastercraft Courser AT2? Dude...that tire was discontinued a couple years ago. Lol. It had been out for ages.
It hasn't been discontinued. We just got a set of them at work for a ranger with a 2014 dot number on them.
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Unread 06-24-2014, 10:00 PM   #753
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchStanton View Post
The new Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 is worth looking at, and it has a 3 ply sidewall. Cooper owns MT and Dick Cepek.
The ATZ P3 is a hybrid tire, IMO. (part AT and part MT) or you can call it an aggressive AT. It's a competitor for Duratrac (another hybrid/aggressive AT).

The Mickey Thompson STZ is an AT that's a sibling of Cooper AT3 with many similarities.

The Cepek Fun Country is another hybrid/agressive AT, and a relative of ATZ P3, and both of those are siblings of Cooper ST Maxx.

The Cepek Trail Country is an AT that's a sibling of Cooper AT3.

===

Those hybrids, aka aggressive AT, are more aggressive and heavier than a typical AT. So better off road, but not as good on road.

Those ATs are all excellent for a DD that sees more on road than off, like mine. They have low rolling resistance and are light and well on road and get good gas mileage (for off road capable tires). They also have a pleasantly soft comfortable ride quality (in appropriate load rating). Yet I find my Cooper AT3 surprisingly capable off road for a tire that's so good on road.
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Unread 06-24-2014, 10:59 PM   #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchStanton View Post
The new Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 is worth looking at, and it has a 3 ply sidewall. Cooper owns MT and Dick Cepek.

Cooper makes M/T/DC tires to M/T spec. They don't own anything else, Molds, Rubber compound etc.


There is no competition with the P3's, Not even close to the traction, Sidewall or even biting edges to the dura trac's.

Up close, They are far from a a/t or a 'hybrid'. Just a different computer designed tread pater to compete with the mt/rk's. They are just as aggressive and thick ply wise as the DC mud country's.

The 'hybrids' are the STZ and the new DC fun country. The 'trail' country is a more traditional a/t like a BFG, But still a tougher tire in its category. A lot of companies are stepping up with new designs and tread patterns to keep up.

Either way you look at it, The true mud tires are SS, Pit bull, and the like. The radial m/t tires are a tamed down version and could be called 'hybrid's'. From there, You find out what's more tolerable noise wise and daily use if a DD.
The P3's have huge lugs, I have a hard time believing they will get any better mpg and resistance than a m/t. Its neat to finally see a 'choice' at the tire size you want to run and many sizes to choose from.
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Unread 06-24-2014, 11:36 PM   #755
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Charley, can you post a recent pic of your XJ with the Coopers? I'm seriously considering them for my son's XJ.
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Unread 06-25-2014, 12:04 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by jimk403 View Post
Charley, can you post a recent pic of your XJ with the Coopers? I'm seriously considering them for my son's XJ.
Sure. I'll do it tomorrow.
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Unread 06-26-2014, 02:27 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKiowaTJ
Cooper makes M/T/DC tires to M/T spec. They don't own anything else, Molds, Rubber compound etc. There is no competition with the P3's, Not even close to the traction, Sidewall or even biting edges to the dura trac's. Up close, They are far from a a/t or a 'hybrid'. Just a different computer designed tread pater to compete with the mt/rk's. They are just as aggressive and thick ply wise as the DC mud country's. The 'hybrids' are the STZ and the new DC fun country. The 'trail' country is a more traditional a/t like a BFG, But still a tougher tire in its category. A lot of companies are stepping up with new designs and tread patterns to keep up. Either way you look at it, The true mud tires are SS, Pit bull, and the like. The radial m/t tires are a tamed down version and could be called 'hybrid's'. From there, You find out what's more tolerable noise wise and daily use if a DD. The P3's have huge lugs, I have a hard time believing they will get any better mpg and resistance than a m/t. Its neat to finally see a 'choice' at the tire size you want to run and many sizes to choose from.
According to MT's website Cooper bought them in 2003:
http://www..com/about.php

Copper told me the STT could be considered a very aggressive AT. I would have tried the MT or DC AT's if they had been available with the 3ply sidewall back in August but needed tires before hunting season, so I went with the STT's.
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Unread 06-26-2014, 08:17 PM   #758
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I consider these above average A/T's: Goodyear Authority



Keep in mind this is the first A/T i've ever used. I always ran mud terrains since I started jeeping in 2003. The tire balanced amazingly well with very little weight. It rides down the road smooth as silk with not a hint of a shimmy or shake all the way up to 70. It's also light (31") enough that I can lift it by the wheel with one hand, which is amazing considering the tires I had on the jeep previously required two hands and alot of muscle. It has great on road traction and grips gravel roads very well. I haven't had it off road yet but will soon. Best aspect of these tires is that they are cheap! ($148 each)
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Unread 06-26-2014, 09:20 PM   #759
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKiowaTJ View Post
Cooper makes M/T/DC tires to M/T spec. They don't own anything else, Molds, Rubber compound etc.


There is no competition with the P3's, Not even close to the traction, Sidewall or even biting edges to the dura trac's.

Up close, They are far from a a/t or a 'hybrid'. Just a different computer designed tread pater to compete with the mt/rk's. They are just as aggressive and thick ply wise as the DC mud country's.

The 'hybrids' are the STZ and the new DC fun country. The 'trail' country is a more traditional a/t like a BFG, But still a tougher tire in its category. A lot of companies are stepping up with new designs and tread patterns to keep up.

Either way you look at it, The true mud tires are SS, Pit bull, and the like. The radial m/t tires are a tamed down version and could be called 'hybrid's'. From there, You find out what's more tolerable noise wise and daily use if a DD.
The P3's have huge lugs, I have a hard time believing they will get any better mpg and resistance than a m/t. Its neat to finally see a 'choice' at the tire size you want to run and many sizes to choose from.
Some of what you said is fact that I agree with. Some is your opinion. Which tires are hybrids is always a matter of opinion. To me, a hybrid is a cross between AT and radial MT. I don't take bias ply MT seriously because most people drive on pavement most of time. That's just my opinion though.
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Unread 06-26-2014, 09:24 PM   #760
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddeprived View Post
I consider these above average A/T's: Goodyear Authority



Keep in mind this is the first A/T i've ever used. I always ran mud terrains since I started jeeping in 2003. The tire balanced amazingly well with very little weight. It rides down the road smooth as silk with not a hint of a shimmy or shake all the way up to 70. It's also light (31") enough that I can lift it by the wheel with one hand, which is amazing considering the tires I had on the jeep previously required two hands and alot of muscle. It has great on road traction and grips gravel roads very well. I haven't had it off road yet but will soon. Best aspect of these tires is that they are cheap! ($148 each)
I'd call those an agressive AT or a mild hybrid. IMO

Do they make them in 30 x 9.5 R15?
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Unread 06-27-2014, 07:15 AM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
I'd call those an agressive AT or a mild hybrid. IMO

Do they make them in 30 x 9.5 R15?
Nah, they got 31x10.5's which are actually 30.5" and then some 16" sizes.
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Unread 06-27-2014, 01:09 PM   #762
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddeprived View Post
Nah, they got 31x10.5's which are actually 30.5" and then some 16" sizes.
Ya. Nobody makes a hybrid in 30 x 9.5 R15, except for the old Cooper ST, which is a reasonably good hybrid after having a tire store add more sipes to center treads, but they ride to rough for me.

The old style Cooper ST (not ST Maxx) is an old school hybrid that predates the Durtrac and others.

The only problem (for me) with the ST is that it rides to rough for me. I owned some on a Wrangler. If not for the rough ride, I'd be using them now.

Keep in mind though, I have a bad back and I'm always going for the softest riding off road tires I can find. To date, the BFG AT and Cooper AT3 are the softest riding ATs I've tried. I'm sure the Mastercraft AXT and Cepek Trail Country would ride equally soft since they're based on the same carcass. I think Hercules AT2 would also ride about as soft as Cooper AT3.

Those Goodyear Authority tires have a reputation for riding soft enough, but I need 30 x 9.5 R15. Oh well, the Cooper AT3 are serving me well.
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Unread 06-27-2014, 07:48 PM   #763
Muddeprived
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Ya. Nobody makes a hybrid in 30 x 9.5 R15, except for the old Cooper ST, which is a reasonably good hybrid after having a tire store add more sipes to center treads, but they ride to rough for me.

The old style Cooper ST (not ST Maxx) is an old school hybrid that predates the Durtrac and others.

The only problem (for me) with the ST is that it rides to rough for me. I owned some on a Wrangler. If not for the rough ride, I'd be using them now.

Keep in mind though, I have a back back and I'm always going for the softest riding off road tires I can find. To date, the BFG AT and Cooper AT3 are the softest riding ATs I've tried. I'm sure the Mastercraft AXT and Cepek Trail Country would ride equally soft since they're based on the same carcass. I think Hercules AT2 would also ride about as soft as Cooper AT3.

Those Goodyear Authority tires have a reputation for riding soft enough, but I need 30 x 9.5 R15. Oh well, the Cooper AT3 are serving me well.
Yeah the authorities are VERY soft. You can tell by pressing on the sidewall. Of course softness comes with the risk of sidewall damage. It's a night and day difference between my authorities and c-load treadwright guard dogs. I actually enjoy going over bumps now.

Sorry about your back. That's gotta suck to deal with especially when you love jeeps.
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Unread 06-28-2014, 08:05 AM   #764
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All this talk of hybrids and all, wouldn't the Cooper AT3 be considered a hybrid? Ya know, with WX calling it "the definition of aggressive" and all and with it also being a "hardcore" AT it surely has to fit into that hybrid category! It's "the most aggressive all-terrain tire money can buy" so it just HAS to be considered a hybrid!
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Unread 06-28-2014, 09:43 AM   #765
chevy2169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7nvrstk
All this talk of hybrids and all, wouldn't the Cooper AT3 be considered a hybrid? Ya know, with WX calling it "the definition of aggressive" and all and with it also being a "hardcore" AT it surely has to fit into that hybrid category! It's "the most aggressive all-terrain tire money can buy" so it just HAS to be considered a hybrid!
Sarcasm noted. Lmao. Personally I don't think there's such a thing as a "hybrid" tire. A tire is either going to ride really nice on the road and suck off road, or ride like dick on road and be awesome off road. IMO. Yes there are in between tires and all, but a level if compromise is to be expected if you only are going to run one tire year round.
Truthfully if you want the best of everything, then run road tires on the road, switch to off-road tires when going wheeling, and use a winter tire for snow. That isn't practical though because of cost. There is no best tire. There's only a best tire for your situation. So arguing over this seems moot.
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