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Unread 06-24-2013, 02:50 PM   #61
Charley3
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Update Cooper AT3 30 x 9.5 R15

Compared to General Grabber AT2 30 x 9.5 R15

Same street tire pressures in both brands of tires. 27 front, 24.5 rear, and no airing down off road.

The Cooper AT3 rides much softer and has noticeably more traction on steep gravel roads. The Cooper AT3 never slips in 2wd. On the same roads, the General Grabber AT2 would slip a little. The Cooper AT2 is more pliable (less stiff) and it seems to conform better to terrain.

One indication of this is when running over the occasional baseball size rock with Grabber AT2, it was a harsh bump and that corner of the XJ would lift up as I drove up and over the rock, and of going up a steep hill the rock would roll under the tire. In the same situation with Cooper AT2 it goes over the baseball size rock with barely a bump, the corner of XJ does not lift up as much, and the rock doesn't roll and traction is good.

---

Mud traction. I previously reported the Cooper AT3 did really well in 2wd on hard slick mud going up a steep hill. Yesterday I accidentally got into deeper, wetter, stickier, suckionier mud. The XJ sank 4", though the mud was much deeper.

When I got out to check the road, my shoes almost got sucked off.

The XJ with open diff and Cooper AT3 was able to easily drive through the mud in 2wd with only a few slips and no spinning while I was going forward. I did have to put in 4wd to back up. No spinning or slipping in 4wd.

That is amazingly good mud performance for an AT that's as quiet on road as an all season tire.

I didn't even air down the tires! Though, I do run them slightly low side for street. 27 psi front and 24.5 psi rear, which gives perfect contact patch for 30 x 9.5 R15 on stock XJ and works good on and off road. The only thing I'd air down for is driving up sand dunes.

These Cooper AT3 continue to impress and exceed expectations, and are much better than any other AT I previously owned.

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Unread 06-24-2013, 06:45 PM   #62
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Goodyear silentarmor with kevlar. Low road noise good puncture resistance in the rocks. They sipe well in heavy rain , clean out well in snow. Mud is not their strong point , but we are talking an at tire. I would say the biggest downfall is the unavailabilty of tire sizes above 285 17 ish range. If they came in 35's I'd buy a set.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 09:15 PM   #63
Charley3
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To anyone reading this thread, tell us about your ATs.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 04:23 AM   #64
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
To anyone reading this thread, tell us about your ATs.
Simply put for a Jeeper's perspective:

My Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61s are virtually perfect on the road. To be clear, I'm using a stock size of 225/75r15, not 30x9.5--not sure if that makes a difference, but thought I'd mention it anyway. They generate no road noise that can be heard above all the natural road/wind noise of an XJ (so I'm not sure if they could be heard on a quieter vehicle or not).

My ride improved over my old tires. I don't remember what they were, but they were some low-end Sam's Club ultra-crummy highway tires or something.

My average MPG remains at a healthy 18, and I'm still capable of achieving 20-21 highway when the planets are aligned.

In all road conditions their traction is top-notch. Even in a blizzard, they have been very sure-footed to the point of not losing traction unless I force them to.

I have not tested them off road extensively yet. Gravel, dry dirt path, dry short/long grass: they're great. I doubt they'll handle any significant mud well, but hardly any AT tire does. I have have not driven in any other looser or more rugged/technical terrain/substrates yet.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #65
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Simply put for a Jeeper's perspective:

My Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61s are virtually perfect on the road. To be clear, I'm using a stock size of 225/75r15, not 30x9.5--not sure if that makes a difference, but thought I'd mention it anyway. They generate no road noise that can be heard above all the natural road/wind noise of an XJ (so I'm not sure if they could be heard on a quieter vehicle or not).

My ride improved over my old tires. I don't remember what they were, but they were some low-end Sam's Club ultra-crummy highway tires or something.

My average MPG remains at a healthy 18, and I'm still capable of achieving 20-21 highway when the planets are aligned.

In all road conditions their traction is top-notch. Even in a blizzard, they have been very sure-footed to the point of not losing traction unless I force them to.

I have not tested them off road extensively yet. Gravel, dry dirt path, dry short/long grass: they're great. I doubt they'll handle any significant mud well, but hardly any AT tire does. I have have not driven in any other looser or more rugged/technical terrain/substrates yet.
That's awesome. Thanks for the report. Kumho SAT are good tires. I encourage you to try 235/75R15 or 30 x 9.5 R15 some time in future. They work great on stock XJs, and XJs with up to 2" lift.

On my prior stock XJ (96) I got same gas mileage with 235/75R15 as with stock 225 ATs. 21 mpg highway, or 22 mpg on a good day.

I also used 30x9.5R15 ATs on my 96 XJ. I never tested the gas mileage, but it seemed about the same based on how long a tank would last.

My current (stock so far) XJ (99) has something wrong with it. It got around 14 to 16 mpg on highway with stock 225 ATs, and gets simlar mpg with 30x9.5R15 ATs. Power is weak at mid and high rpm too. I'm trying to track down the engine problem.

---

235/75R15 gives improvement in off road performance, with no loss in on road performance or gas mileage. I did a lot of wheeling with 235s (old version of Cooper AT). Very good on trails, almost wide enough on sand, but not quite. Great on mild mud, but not quite tall or wide enough for medium mud. i.e. - great on road, great for mild off road, but not quite good enough for intermediate off road.

30x9.5R15 gives a huge improvement in off road performance with loss in on road performance, and only minimal loss in gas mileage. 30s require no mods to use. i.e. - great on road, great for mild off road, and good enough for intermediate off road. I have owned this size in BFG AT, General Grabber AT2, and Cooper AT3. I highly recommend this size. Any loss in gas mileage is minimal. No noticeable loss in power with stock gearing, except for one thing. Reverse is a bit high for backing up VERY steep hills. For this size tire in the mountains, 3.73 diff gears would be ideal, but 3.55 are working fine for me in mountains, except for straining when reversing up VERY steep hills.

---

I'm glad you're happy with tires you have. I encourage you to try some 235s or 30s in future. Kumho SAT is available in those sizes.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #66
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My choice of 225 was quite deliberate to keep them narrow and light for daily driving (and cheaper in price). Anywhere I need them off road, upsizing would provide little to no improvement compared to how they already perform. I'm not a wheeler, and they've already proven they can get me from point A to point B in my typical off road destinations flawlessly.

A 2-3" lift is planned for the future not so much for the lift but because I want OME, and it isn't available in a stock height. Assuming it will be about 2", I will then have approx 30" tires under it for cosmetic reasons.

I have no practical need for 30" tires; stock size is quite adequate for me, and I feel no need to conform with other Jeepers for conformity's sake. I'm not saying that there are no benefits to larger tires--for some people, there are. There are no benefits for me, however, so if I upsize it will simply be to keep a lifted Jeep from looking goofy.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 02:35 PM   #67
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
My choice of 225 was quite deliberate to keep them narrow and light for daily driving (and cheaper in price). Anywhere I need them off road, upsizing would provide little to no improvement compared to how they already perform. I'm not a wheeler, and they've already proven they can get me from point A to point B in my typical off road destinations flawlessly.

A 2-3" lift is planned for the future not so much for the lift but because I want OME, and it isn't available in a stock height. Assuming it will be about 2", I will then have approx 30" tires under it for cosmetic reasons.
Cosmetic reasons that come with benefits.

I purchased OME lift springs front and rear (not installed yet) to improve my ride quality. So I understand your thinking about springs. I think mine will be about 1.25" to 1.5" lift (with skid plates and the softest OME springs).

I am putting on OME heavy load TJ springs in front because 140 lbs/in spring rate will ride nice. Stock XJ springs are 147 lbs/in rate. OME light load XJ front springs are 160 lbs/in rate.
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Unread 07-06-2013, 10:47 PM   #68
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I went off roading today on a trail that started as a gravel road, soon became a dirt road, and then became a wet muddy trail where springs were making dirt trail in to a mud trail.

All this road and trail was through the woods, cut into the side of a mountain with a cliff on the downhill side and a steep muddy hill above.

Very scenic.

It got really interesting driving down the muddy creek bank, through the muddy creek bed, and up the muddy creek bank on the other side. The banks weren't steep, but they defineately had some slope/grade and were a bit challenging with the mud. The mud was slick and sticky, but did have a bottom about 4" down.

Three things amaze me. I was able to do this with ATs. I did NOT air down. It was easy. I did it in 2wd with open diff.

I had a few tire slips, like approx 1/2 to 3/4 rotation of a rear tire, but no spinning. I was prepared to spin the tires to clean them, but it wasn't necessary.

30 x 9.5 R15 Cooper Discoverer AT3 are serving me well and amazing me with the best mud performance I've ever experienced with an AT.

They are also good on highway. Quieter than other ATs I've had, and better cornering than other ATs I've had. They never hydroplane on wet highway. They ride soft for a load C tire, which eats the bumps and smooths the ride. On road they are almost like having a highway passenger car tire.

I'm looking forward to taking them to the beach this summer and trying them in sand. Also looking forward to next Winter to try them on snow and ice. Reviews I've read say they are good at all those things. I am looking forward to trying those terrains.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 12:30 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3
I went off roading today on a trail that started as a gravel road, soon became a dirt road, and then became a wet muddy trail where springs were making dirt trail in to a mud trail.

All this road and trail was through the woods, cut into the side of a mountain with a cliff on the downhill side and a steep muddy hill above.

Very scenic.

It got really interesting driving down the muddy creek bank, through the muddy creek bed, and up the muddy creek bank on the other side. The banks weren't steep, but they defineately had some slope/grade and were a bit challenging with the mud. The mud was slick and sticky, but did have a bottom about 4" down.

Three things amaze me. I was able to do this with ATs. I did NOT air down. It was easy. I did it in 2wd with open diff.

I had a few tire slips, like approx 1/2 to 3/4 rotation of a rear tire, but no spinning. I was prepared to spin the tires to clean them, but it wasn't necessary.

30 x 9.5 R15 Cooper Discoverer AT3 are serving me well and amazing me with the best mud performance I've ever experienced with an AT.

They are also good on highway. Quieter than other ATs I've had, and better cornering than other ATs I've had. They never hydroplane on wet highway. They ride soft for a load C tire, which eats the bumps and smooths the ride. On road they are almost like having a highway passenger car tire.

I'm looking forward to taking them to the beach this summer and trying them in sand. Also looking forward to next Winter to try them on snow and ice. Reviews I've read say they are good at all those things. I am looking forward to trying those terrains.
You won't be disappointed come winter. There's a reason I'm sticking with the at3 for my next set of tires... Just getting bigger ones this time round
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Unread 07-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #70
970001zj
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my hankook dynapro atm's do well on the hiway and are a little bit noisy but i dont mind it at all

on the interstate they control awesome at 55-90 dont know about higher speeds i dont drive that fast

on the snow they were awesome and slipped only when i wanted them too ( tried really hard to , lol )

the one exception was during a blizzard with 50 mph wind blowing at my side and i was driving on ice so i had to go 35-40 instead of the normal 50-55 on the snow/ice

when one side is in deep water at high speed it feels kinda weird but in control and not crazy scary

on a very steep sand hill they dug down some with too much throttle but they did get me over it though

on soft dirt i had no problems with traction on some very tough ruts and deep soft dirt

control on gravel is good but i stay under 45 on it because i hate driving on gravel so i dont know about higher speeds

i dont do mud so i cant say about that

on the street they ride nice , braking is better and acceleration too

they are not showing signs of fast wear or over inflation

my size is 225/75/16 and i got 5 for $595 from discount tire direct last year they are cheaper the last time i checked

i keep them at 37.5 psi with a great ride and mpg ( 16.4 avg. with a lead foot and v-8 )

i rate them 10 out of 10

oh , they look cool too
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Unread 07-15-2013, 07:38 PM   #71
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Almost bought those for the JK. Wife said they were not "knobby enough." May end up with them on the XJ, or the Coopers.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 11:46 PM   #72
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post


my hankook dynapro atm's do well on the hiway and are a little bit noisy but i dont mind it at all

on the interstate they control awesome at 55-90 dont know about higher speeds i dont drive that fast

on the snow they were awesome and slipped only when i wanted them too ( tried really hard to , lol )

the one exception was during a blizzard with 50 mph wind blowing at my side and i was driving on ice so i had to go 35-40 instead of the normal 50-55 on the snow/ice

when one side is in deep water at high speed it feels kinda weird but in control and not crazy scary

on a very steep sand hill they dug down some with too much throttle but they did get me over it though

on soft dirt i had no problems with traction on some very tough ruts and deep soft dirt

control on gravel is good but i stay under 45 on it because i hate driving on gravel so i dont know about higher speeds

i dont do mud so i cant say about that

on the street they ride nice , braking is better and acceleration too

they are not showing signs of fast wear or over inflation

my size is 225/75/16 and i got 5 for $595 from discount tire direct last year they are cheaper the last time i checked

i keep them at 37.5 psi with a great ride and mpg ( 16.4 avg. with a lead foot and v-8 )

i rate them 10 out of 10

oh , they look cool too
I think you might be using to much air pressure.

The Hankook ATM and Cooper AT3 are my two favorite ATs. The Toyo AT2 might be great to, but to early to know yet (its new). These 3 tires are similar in tread pattern and design, but have some interesting differences.

The Cooper AT3 is slightly better on mud than Hankook ATM, but both are good for ATs.

The Hankook ATM is slightly better on ice than Cooper AT3, but AT3 is adequate (typical for AT).

Both are great on snow.

Both are great on all other terrains on and off road.

Both have very good on road handling (breaking and cornering).

Cooper AT3 is quiet. Hankook ATM noise is typical for an AT (similar to BFG AT).

Both ride better (softer) than most brands of AT. Cooper AT3 rides the softest.

---

If you drive on ice often, the Hankook ATM is a better choice than Cooper AT3.

If you drive on mud often, the Cooper AT3 is a better choice than Hankook ATM.

For on road comfort (quiet and soft riding) get Cooper AT3, but Hankook ATM has good comfort ratings too.

For all other traction and handling issues, they are equivalent. One is as good as the other.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 12:44 AM   #73
970001zj
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Quote:
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You are using to much air pressure.
my tire wear and backside say otherwise , and they go up to 50 psi max so im still in the safe zone at 37.5 psi

also what is your source for how much they need to be inflated the little sticker on the door ? lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
To anyone reading this thread, tell us about your ATs.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 04:22 AM   #74
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What is on the sidewall of the tire is simply the max pressure the tire is rated to hold. It has nothing to do with how much pressure you should run under a given vehicle. If you ran 50 psi on those tires, your ride would be awful, and you'd wear-out the center of your tread in no time. That little sticker on the door IS the authority for stock sizes and on-road driving--no "lol" about it.

That having been said....36 psi is the officially recommended pressure for a 97 ZJ with 225/75r16, so you're close enough. If you were to drastically change tire size/type, your optimal pressure would shift.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 04:53 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
What is on the sidewall of the tire is simply the max pressure the tire is rated to hold. It has nothing to do with how much pressure you should run under a given vehicle. If you ran 50 psi on those tires, your ride would be awful, and you'd wear-out the center of your tread in no time. That little sticker on the door IS the authority for stock sizes and on-road driving--no "lol" about it.
you sir are wrong please stop spreading misinformation , the tires are designed to be able to hold that much air and it is because the extra load capacity of the tires depends on the extra air so it has everything to do with how much you should have in the tire

my zj is never loaded with that much crap and i dont tow so i keep them where they feel good and wear correctly

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
That having been said....36 psi is the officially recommended pressure for a 97 ZJ with 225/75r16, so you're close enough. If you were to drastically change tire size/type, your optimal pressure would shift.
officially who says that , jeep ? the door ? because 225/75/16 was not offered stock

thank you in advance for not spreading b.s. like seeds
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