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Unread 03-25-2014, 09:17 PM   #706
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlt828 View Post
Agreed. 10 ply might make the ride a little rough on the GC. I'd really like to try the Cooper AT3's though. Gotta look around a little more.

So far all the main tires I'm looking at in a 245/70-17 are 10 ply for the LT tires. P-metric tires out the wazoo.
Hence my suggestion of 16" wheels.

Mschi is a good researcher. Perhaps he can help you find a load C or D in 245/70-17. Otherwise, I'd look for some other size that can be had in C or D.

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Unread 03-26-2014, 04:26 AM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlt828 View Post
Agreed. 10 ply might make the ride a little rough on the GC. I'd really like to try the Cooper AT3's though. Gotta look around a little more.

So far all the main tires I'm looking at in a 245/70-17 are 10 ply for the LT tires. P-metric tires out the wazoo.
If there are P's out the wazoo, why not use them? Why's it gotta be LT? There's not that huge a difference--most people dramatically misunderstand the differences between P and LT or even between C/D/E. If you want the tire to be "tougher" and have a little higher load rating, get an XL or RF rated P if it's available.

When it comes to load carrying capacity, you'll reach the limit of the WJ before you reach the load limit of the tires; even an SL rated 245/70r17 has a load rating of over 2300 lbs. Multiplied by four tires gives you over 9200 lbs. Your WJ weighs about 4-4500 lbs with a payload capacity of 1000. The max gross weight rating of the WJ is 5500 lbs, and those tires can support over 9000...SL-rated P's are plenty. Not too worried about that 3-400 extra lbs of tongue weight anymore, huh?

While I submit to you that any of the tires available to you in a P245/70r17 will be just fine, if you're super paranoid about punctures, both of Goodyears Kevlar models are available to you (Adventure and Silent Armor), and General's AT2 has a reputation of being tougher as well. There Coopers in a P will be just fine, though.
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Unread 03-26-2014, 07:32 AM   #708
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Thanks for the info Mschi. Makes a lot of sense.
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Unread 03-26-2014, 12:42 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
If there are P's out the wazoo, why not use them? Why's it gotta be LT? There's not that huge a difference--most people dramatically misunderstand the differences between P and LT or even between C/D/E. If you want the tire to be "tougher" and have a little higher load rating, get an XL or RF rated P if it's available.

When it comes to load carrying capacity, you'll reach the limit of the WJ before you reach the load limit of the tires; even an SL rated 245/70r17 has a load rating of over 2300 lbs. Multiplied by four tires gives you over 9200 lbs. Your WJ weighs about 4-4500 lbs with a payload capacity of 1000. The max gross weight rating of the WJ is 5500 lbs, and those tires can support over 9000...SL-rated P's are plenty. Not too worried about that 3-400 extra lbs of tongue weight anymore, huh?

While I submit to you that any of the tires available to you in a P245/70r17 will be just fine, if you're super paranoid about punctures, both of Goodyears Kevlar models are available to you (Adventure and Silent Armor), and General's AT2 has a reputation of being tougher as well. There Coopers in a P will be just fine, though.
I agree with all that, but C & D will have deeper tread than P. Deeper tread is an advantage off road. That's part of why I like C.

However, P is fine (perhaps better) on road, and good enough for moderate off road traction. IMO
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Unread 03-26-2014, 05:06 PM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
I agree with all that, but C & D will have deeper tread than P. Deeper tread is an advantage off road. That's part of why I like C.

However, P is fine (perhaps better) on road, and good enough for moderate off road traction. IMO
LT has a deeper tread by 1-5 32nds of an inch from what I've seen (depends on tire and tire size). To me, that's not a big enough difference to matter, but for others it is. Depending on who you are and what you want, that distinction may or may not be important.

LT tires (and XL-rated P) require more air to sustain the same footprint and load than a P does--their advantage is that they can withstand higher maximum pressures, too, so they can withstand higher maximum loads than a P ultimately could as well. The disadvantage is that they tend to have worse ride quality on average as a result of their reduced flexibility and increased air pressure.

XL/RF-rated P tires have an additional fringe benefit that has made them popular among compact and sport sedan/coupe crowds--that reinforcement in the shoulder/sidewall slightly enhances their handling/responsiveness compared to SL-rated P (at a slight cost to ride quality). Not relevant to Jeeps, but something that might be useful to someone.

Keep tires' load rating in perspective, though. In this case, the WJ itself will fail due to load long before even SL-rated P tires would fail. Some people claim that tires with higher load ratings are "tougher"...I'm extremely skeptical of that claim. Others say that higher load ratings are beneficial for airing-down...I'm a mix of skeptical and open-minded on that one--I haven't really spent any time wrestling with it since I don't ever face situations where I'd need to consider "toughness" or having to air-down my tires.


I put "tough" in quotes when discussing tires because it's such an abstract attribute in my opinion since so many people have so many different ways of describing what it means for a tire to be tough. My personal definition on tire toughness is resistance to damage such as punctures, tears, chunking, impact-induced blowouts or bulging. I do not consider irregular wear, thrown tread, or heat-induced blowouts to be relevant as these forms of damage are more directly tied to whether or not tires are being rotated correctly and/or run at the correct pressure.
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Unread 03-26-2014, 08:44 PM   #711
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If a C or D has 4/32 deeper tread than a P, that might be signifigant for mud and maybe snow. On a lot of tires, that'd be approx 25% deeper tread. Is that signifigant? I think so. Though one might also argue that 4/32 is only 1/8" and therefore not signifigant.

It's not really clear cut, IMO.

My conclusion is I prefer a C when I can get it, but I could be happy with a P if it's a good model/brand of AT tire.
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Unread 03-26-2014, 10:47 PM   #712
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I have Mickey Thompson baja stz on my jeep.
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Unread 03-27-2014, 02:09 PM   #713
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I have Mickey Thompson baja stz on my jeep.
Please tell us about them. How long have you had them? How are they on wet, dry, Winter roads? How are the off road on various terrains?
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Unread 03-27-2014, 02:55 PM   #714
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235/70r/16 so im stock. Ive had the tires since july 31, 2013 and have put 22000 miles on them. I was living in Indiana and around dec 2012 there was a huge snowstorm and i needed to get to the Indianapolis airport. I was in 4 high traveling 50 mph in the crap. Cars were pulled over and there was no difference between the road and the ditches. I was in a hurry and had no problems. As far as ice i didnt even notice any ice. I cant say that theu would do well because most tires dont. Rain doesnt matter, you can just drive however you like lol. Mud they do well and rocks are easy. Quiet on the freeway when im doing 70 mph so i like them. However my nect set will be firestone destination mt or at. I had a pair of AT years ago and they were superior in the rain. I miss those tires.
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Unread 06-13-2014, 10:55 PM   #715
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I'd like to finally contribute to this thread.

I currently am running some BFG AT/KO's in 33 12.50 15. All I can say about them is I'm disappointed. I work in a shop, and mounted these tires myself. From day one, they have been very difficult to get balanced properly.
I used to be a big advocate about BFG. I've ran KM2's and thought they were great for what I needed them for. I was looking for something more docile though since I don't wheel as much anymore and found these to be just as much of a headache.
They are loud for an all terrain, are hard to balance, and cost a premium becasue they are made my Michelin. I won't be buying BFG's again.

That being said, I'm actually lowering the Jeep back to stock and going with some 31's now. I'm in the market for some AT's and have been eyeing the Mastercraft Courser AXT. They have a 55k mile warranty, are very close to the Cooper AT3, and are on the inexpesive side.
I drive the Jeep daily, and only wheel logging trails and such now. I'm trying to bring my gas mileage up a little bit, have a more comfortable ride on the road, but still able to have some fun in the woods every now and then. So I'd like some first hand experience from some who have ran this tire. How did they balance? How do they ride? Any road noise complaints? How well do they perform offroad? How many miles have you seen before any substantial wear started showing?
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Unread 06-14-2014, 01:58 PM   #716
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Update: I previously said my Cooper AT3 have been quiet, comfortable riding, excellent dry handling and good wet handling, good in mud, excellent on trails, but were a bit slick on snow and ice.

In hindsight, I may have had to much air in the tires on snow and ice. Perhaps a bit less air would help a lot. I previously experienced this with other brands of AT, such as BFG AT. So maybe same deal here.

On mud the AT3 are way better than BFG AT. On highway a lot quieter than BFG AT.

I used to be a BFG fan, and have owned two sets of them. The 1st set of BFG AT was good, but not as good as AT3. The 2nd set of BFG AT were poor (less round and less balanced). Maybe the 2nd set of BFG was a dud and a fluke, or maybe they aren't as well made as they used to be.
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Unread 06-14-2014, 02:43 PM   #717
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Re the person who asked about Mastercraft AXT.

The AXT is made by Cooper and is essentially a Cooper AT3 with less side biters. IMO
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Unread 06-14-2014, 03:20 PM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3
Update: I previously said my Cooper AT3 have been quiet, comfortable riding, excellent dry handling and good wet handling, good in mud, excellent on trails, but were a bit slick on snow and ice. In hindsight, I may have had to much air in the tires on snow and ice. Perhaps a bit less air would help a lot. I previously experienced this with other brands of AT, such as BFG AT. So maybe same deal here. On mud the AT3 are way better than BFG AT. On highway a lot quieter than BFG AT. I used to be a BFG fan, and have owned two sets of them. The 1st set of BFG AT was good, but not as good as AT3. The 2nd set of BFG AT were poor (less round and less balanced). Maybe the 2nd set of BFG was a dud and a fluke, or maybe they aren't as well made as they used to be.
Thanks for your input. I will agree that BFG isn't up to par like they used to be.
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Unread 06-14-2014, 03:22 PM   #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3
Re the person who asked about Mastercraft AXT. The AXT is made by Cooper and is essentially a Cooper AT3 with less side biters. IMO
Then I am absolutely going with the master craft axt at the end of this month. Thank you again.
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Unread 06-14-2014, 06:30 PM   #720
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Then I am absolutely going with the master craft axt at the end of this month. Thank you again.
Less side biters probably means AXT won't be as good in muddy ruts as AT3, but otherwise would be same performance, IMO.

Do you drive in/on mud?

Is AXT a lot cheaper than AT3?
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