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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:07 PM   #631
Charley3
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Personally, it's most important to me how good the tire is. Not country where company is owned or tire made.

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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:12 PM   #632
jimk403
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And then there was the last set of BFG ATs I bought. Molded into the sidewall was this; 'Made in Japan'.
Go figure.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:14 PM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Personally, it's most important to me how good the tire is. Not country where company is owned or tire made.
Good point. I had some all-terrains on my Patfinder that were made in China. Good tires overall.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:14 PM   #634
TrailJ
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Ah, my bad I think; so my Cooper AT3 are M+S, but there is no actual snowflake. So I take it the M+S rating and Snowflake are two different things? (235/85/16 Load E ... daily driver so E is ok for me)
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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:47 PM   #635
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailJ View Post
Ah, my bad I think; so my Cooper AT3 are M+S, but there is no actual snowflake. So I take it the M+S rating and Snowflake are two different things? (235/85/16 Load E ... daily driver so E is ok for me)
M+S rating doesn't mean much, IMO.

Snowflake/Mountain symbol is a gov rating for Winter traction on snow and ice. This is the desireable rating that's based on gov testing.

Review and tests by Consumer Reports says Cooper AT3 are good on snow, but only OK/marginal on ice. IMO the AT3 does not have enough sipes for ice. I think this is why it's not snowflake/mountain rated.

Hankook ATM, Hercules AT2, Multimile Wild Country XTX Sport LT, Goodyear Adventurer, and General Grabber AT2 are all snowflake/mountain rated and have passed gov testing for snow and ice. They have a lot more sipes than Cooper AT3.

Sipes are a key factor to ice traction (if you don't have studs), IME. Soft rubber also helps.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 09:59 PM   #636
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It's not proprietary to Cooper, almost all tires have the M+S rating and all it means is it meets or exceeds the RMA standard for mud and snow for a passenger tire.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 10:28 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie View Post
It's not proprietary to Cooper, almost all tires have the M+S rating and all it means is it meets or exceeds the RMA standard for mud and snow for a passenger tire.
ive seen some pitiful examples of m/s tires downright pitiful
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Unread 02-02-2014, 11:22 PM   #638
TrailJ
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So what does the m+s rma standard mean a tire can do?
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Unread 02-02-2014, 11:46 PM   #639
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailJ View Post
So what does the m+s rma standard mean a tire can do?
Good question. I used to own Cooper ST that were M+S rated and they were terrible on packed snow and ice, until I added extra sipes. Then they were OK on packed snow and ice. They were very good on mud though.

The Cooper AT3 that I have now are good on snow, but not so good on ice.

So IME the M+S rating indicates wishful thinking and hoping it will be good on snow and ice.

I have had good experiences and results with snow flake/mountain symbol Winter rated tires. Those (of multiple brands) have done really well for me on all types of snow and ice.

---

So I have no confidence in M+S rating, but have good confidence in the snowflake/mountain symbol rating. I think the snowflake/mountain symbol rating really means good Winter traction.
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Unread 02-03-2014, 04:52 AM   #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Personally, it's most important to me how good the tire is. Not country where company is owned or tire made.
Agreed. Just because I've compiled the info doesn't mean I prioritize it. It's a global market, and whoever makes the better product will get my business (possible exceptions may apply).

You know, as I look at the list of tire manufacturers, it occurs to me that most of their AT tires can be considered good and that the shorter list would actually be a list of AT tires to avoid no matter what. After looking through some reviews since the S10 at work got them, it sounds like Nexen AT2's might be on that list--not much being said positive about them. Probably Pirelli ATR, too.
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Unread 02-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #641
wadeholiday
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made a selection...

So,
after running around on an AT tire that is supposed to be good in the snow and Ice, I decided not only was that duratrac too big for my jeep, and too tippy in that size, but that even though there are only a couple months of winter left, I wanted a winter tire.
and,
it was 3rd on my list, but avail now at the shop I was using, so I got a the Hankook ipike RW 11. there were a couple places that said, "if you like the RF10, you'll love the RW11, and it was avail and looked good.

after my drive home from dry road, to icy road, to snow, to dirt road with gravel and frozen dirt, I like it.

Handling is much better, traction is WAAAAY better, jeep is quicker, quieter, smoother, more precise steering, and gas mileage is already going up, about 1.5mpg so far as well.

in a couple months, I"ll have to decide which AT to get again as the winter come off, but quite happy at the moment.

thx again,

Wade
jeeppicrw11.jpg  
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Unread 02-03-2014, 06:58 PM   #642
Charley3
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I use those Hankook I-pike on my Buick Park Ave luxury car.

I like them. I use them year round (without studs).

If you don't stud them, they are fine for year round use in climates that seldom get above 90F or 95F in Summer.

My tire store told me they'll typically get 40K miles of year round use before wearing out. I think mine will last longer.

I've used them 2 years and 15K miles now (year round) and their treads still look new.

They're like have Winter rated AT on my car. I drive them on gravel roads a lot and they've held up perfectly.

High speed cornering/handling isn't as good as an all season tire, but is as good as a typical AT, IMO. So that probably means better high speed cornering and handling than a more agressive (hybrid) tire like Duratrac.

Their handling improves after 500 to 1000 miles (as does any new tire).
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Unread 02-03-2014, 07:44 PM   #643
Charley3
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Hankook I-Pike is kind of a (year round usable) Winter tire with similar tread to Hankook ATM.

The I-Pike is studdable for "Winter only" use where lots of ice is frequent. If left unstudded it's a good year-round usable tire and is still reasonably decent on ice. It's good on snow whether studded or not.

The I-Pike is fairly tough compared to all season tires and most other Winter tires. Lots of people (including me) put them on cars and use them like AT tires. They are great for gravel roads, and in fact are popular with rally racers for racing cars on gravel roads. I like them for Winter use and also for year round use on gravel roads and paved roads.

I also like Hercules Avalance LT and Cooper M+S Winter tires for year round use, if not studded. If studded they are good dedicated Winter tires. If unstudded they are still reasonably good on ice. They're good on snow whether studded or not.
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Unread 02-04-2014, 01:59 AM   #644
Charley3
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Dick Cepek Trail Country. It's a relative of Cooper AT3.

Probably a good tire. Looks good to me. I like the looks of its tread and sipes. It probably shares same carcass as Cooper AT3 and I know I like that (tough enough for my needs, rides soft and handles good).

Has anyone tried the Dick Cepek Trail Country?
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Unread 02-04-2014, 02:08 AM   #645
Charley3
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Dick Cepek Fun Country. What's the deal with this tire? What is it?

It looks more aggressive than a typical AT, but less agressive than a typical Hybrid.

So I don't know how to classify it. I guess I might call it an aggressive AT, but that confuses things because that's Goodyear's term for what Cooper (and myself) calls a Hybrid.

Whatever type tire it is, or whatever classification it may be, it is interesting. It's level of aggressiveness is between a typical AT and a Duratrac, IMO.

What do you think of this tire? Has anyone tried it?
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