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Unread 02-01-2014, 02:06 PM   #601
wadeholiday
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retailer for these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPGoody View Post
Mini update:

Herc Terra Trac AT IIs performed wonderfully in the rain, slurpee, snow, frozen slush, hard pack ice, snow sandwich bomb that hit the mts/city right before the weekend.

OK, I hadn't looked too closely at this one, as I had never heard of hercules, but your comment brought me back. it's been recommended, and looks great to me.
they hit all my boxes:

great reviews, lots of siping, silica, C rated (not E), 6 ply, 46 lbs so not so heavy on power and mpg. avail. in middle size for me 275/70r17 (between 265 and 285), so suspension clearance, but still larger then the 265/70. 285 rubs when flexed, 265 smaller then stock.

but, no local retailers, and I"m kinda in bed with Discount tire now, as they are working with me on the ones I don't like.

where do you get these?

nice pic I found of jeep exactly like mine as well:

http://www.behance.net/gallery/Hercu...rac-II/9269283

Maybe I get some winters from discount for the next 2 mo, and order these direct and put em on in april.

Thx!

ef28457510d5ab2bf2b51dc83e4bd4ee.jpg

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Unread 02-01-2014, 03:53 PM   #602
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The Hercules is an second tier brand of cooper/multi-mile tires. Almost any tire shop should be able to get them.
For that matter you can walk into firestone and buy kevlars, But if they don't have a dealer locator, Call a few shops.
But implement tire shops that sell cooper and titan tires will usually have the best price unless a major outfitter has them, Then they can sell for a $5 profit.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 04:26 PM   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKiowaTJ View Post
The Hercules is an second tier brand of cooper/multi-mile tires. Almost any tire shop should be able to get them.
For that matter you can walk into firestone and buy kevlars, But if they don't have a dealer locator, Call a few shops.
But implement tire shops that sell cooper and titan tires will usually have the best price unless a major outfitter has them, Then they can sell for a $5 profit.
Hercules is a separate company from Cooper (owned by FdG Associates, a private equity investment firm) that has marketing and manufacturing partnerships with Cooper. They are not a "second tier" Cooper brand. Cooper is owned by the Indian Apollo Tyre (see: http://coopertire.com/News/Corporate...BER-COMPA.aspx).


Correction: Cooper is not owned by Apollo. They are currently engaged in some legal battling after Cooper's ultimate termination of the deal last month due to Apollo's lack of finances (source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25556311). For anyone who prioritizes American companies/products, this puts Cooper back in the game.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 04:51 PM   #604
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I looked them up, They are from a commercial tire company that focus on semi's/agg related but have quite a line up of passenger and LT tires.

Not a second tier, But not a top contender line some. Cooper owns a lot of labels and make tires for many others as well. It wouldn't be hard to find them, Any local truck shop or heavy duty tire store can get them.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 05:00 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeholiday View Post

but, no local retailers, and I"m kinda in bed with Discount tire now, as they are working with me on the ones I don't like.

where do you get these?

Maybe I get some winters from discount for the next 2 mo, and order these direct and put em on in april.

Thx!
Oddly, I got mine form discount.

I went back and forth between the Terra Trac ATII and General Grabber AT2. Finally flipped a mental coin and went to Discount and put down a deposit on some GGAT2s as I was gonna get a sweet deal ($118/ech). BAM, not available in my size (30x9.50) until late March. So I told them to pause while I pondered it, called em back to cancel and told them I'd want the Herc if I can't have the GGAT2. Had em installed next day, $115 each.

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Unread 02-01-2014, 05:04 PM   #606
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link: celebrating 50 years of Cooper and Herc

http://coopertire.com/News/Corporate...r-Anniver.aspx
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Unread 02-01-2014, 05:40 PM   #607
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That's all the more better, Two American companies working together. I know they make all light truck Mickey Thompson's in the akron ohio plant.

Cant beat $115 a tire, More so when they have a smoother quiet ride.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 08:42 PM   #608
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeholiday View Post
Looks like atm only come in 10ply, E.

all the E's seem to be 10lbs or more heavier then P or C,
and don't seem to make sense on a jeep.

lose power, and mpg for something that isn't neccesary.

so, ATM in the LT is out.

i had a break to try to figure this out today, and was all over the board.
going blizzak, hakkaillitti 7 for a bit,

then

yokohama AT/s

but thinking just going to the smaller duratracs, in a C,

drop 11lb per tire, so less of hit on mpg, shorter sidewall, so less 'tippy',
and good for non winter tire.

2 mo left of winter, and long term forecast is not good, so dedicated winters should probably wait till next year.

looked at gy adventure w/ kevlar. Looks interesting, they say winter in "pro grade", that probably means the LT E rated as well I suppose. If the lighter one is winter rated, could be a good solution.

Thx Gents.

Cheers,
W
My recommendation of Hankook ATM and Goodyear Adventurer for you was made without considering that they don't offer many load C choices.

If they don't offer a load C in the size you want, then look for other tires in load C.

Here are tires that I know are pretty good about offering C choices in certain sizes you might want. Goodyear Duratrac, Hercules AT2, and Multi Mile Wild Country XTX Sport LT. Also Cooper AT3, but I think maybe you'd be better off with any of those others I mentioned in this paragraph because they are Winter rated. Cooper AT3 is not Winter rated.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 08:58 PM   #609
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Hercules is a separate company from Cooper (owned by FdG Associates, a private equity investment firm) that has marketing and manufacturing partnerships with Cooper. They are not a "second tier" Cooper brand. Cooper is owned by the Indian Apollo Tyre (see: http://coopertire.com/News/Corporate...BER-COMPA.aspx).
I agree with Mschi. Both Hercules and Multimile are independent USA tire companies that hire larger tire companies to manufacture their designs. Hercules hired Cooper to make Hercules AT2. Multimile hired Cooper to manufacture the Multimile Wild Country XTX Sport LT.
Though I personally am certain there is also a lot of Cooper technology in those tires too. I think both those tires have same carcass as Cooper AT3 because they're exactly the same dimensions and weight per size as Cooper AT3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Correction: Cooper is not owned by Apollo. They are currently engaged in some legal battling after Cooper's ultimate termination of the deal last month due to Apollo's lack of finances (source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25556311). For anyone who prioritizes American companies/products, this puts Cooper back in the game.
That's good to know thanks. So Cooper is still USA owned and most (perhaps all?) of their tires are made in USA. Same for Hercules and Multimile.

I think Goodyear is still all USA too.

Hankook is South Korean. Toyo is Japanese.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 07:51 AM   #610
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As requested by Charley I will post my reviews of the General Grabber AT2, I will start out by saying I am a BFG "fan boy" in that I still believe the T/A KO's are the best all terrain tire even though they're so out dated. Anyways back to the AT2, I was skeptical about their performance but they were great! I won't go into too much detail on on road handling since they drive just like any other tire IMO with the exception of lateral traction or lack thereof.

I am a member of the Gulf Coast Jeep Cub which is a very active off road group that goes off road pretty much every single weekend and I've been doing so for the last year (almost exactly a year our club anniversary is coming up next month) and the terrain I've driven on include rocks, beach sand, loose gravel, clay, mud and dirt roads and the AT2 performed admirably in all (except wet grass lol it seems to be an AT Achilles heel)

Obviously jut by looking at the design you can tell that sand and gravel are going to be this tires best environment, they do decent on rocks as well but the tires I had were pretty old (manufactured in 08) so the rubber was getting hard and didn't offer much deflection to wrap around and get a good bite. Mud and clay they don't do well as expected but they're better than I expected especially with some liberal wheel spin. I've only been stuck with them once and it was in a deceiving rut that also stopped a TJ with a 6.1 Hemi swap and 38" Super Swampers so idk if that counts haha!

In the end they hung with much better off road tires toe for toe even if I sometimes had to tackle and obstacle or line two or more times before I made it and earned a club nick name of "two time Tim" but I am a fan of these tires. Will put them at the top of a short list of good AT's and above even the fabled T/A KO because its so much more affordable. If by this time you are still reading your reward will be these pictures and video of them in an off road environment.

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb510f3c5.mp4

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps5a10f19c.mp4

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb2fbbc24.mp4

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps093a2580.mp4
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Unread 02-02-2014, 08:31 AM   #611
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Great review and pics rebel - thanks. And it's ref reshing to see someone who likes BFG, who offer the biggest range of sizes of any mfr in the KO model. What do you think about the new KO, is it something you will try?
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Unread 02-02-2014, 08:35 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209
Great review and pics rebel - thanks. And it's ref reshing to see someone who likes BFG, who offer the biggest range of sizes of any mfr in the KO model. What do you think about the new KO, is it something you will try?
Probably not because it will be expensive, price is my only caveat with the BFG's (same as the Duratracs those things cost too damn much) But people looking to buy the current T/A KO might be able to pick them up when the KO2 comes out greatly discounted! I just took a gamble on a controversial mud tire last week so I'm going to see how this one plays out.

I ran these tires down to 8/32 tread so they look pretty worn but I don't think they come with that much tread to begin with.
image-468376304.jpg

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Unread 02-02-2014, 08:44 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
That's good to know thanks. So Cooper is still USA owned and most (perhaps all?) of their tires are made in USA. Same for Hercules and Multimile.

I think Goodyear is still all USA too.

Hankook is South Korean. Toyo is Japanese.
I'm fairly certain that the Hercules All Trac AT is made in China. It was at one point at least (not sure what other models were if there were others). There was a ruckus a few years ago regarding recalls that hurt their reputation despite the recalls only involving Chinese-made tires and not their American-made tires. http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/...trac-a-t-tires

Here is a list of Tire companies by ownership for anyone who is interested. This is not a list of where the tires are made but a list of countries to where the money ultimately flows. Some American companies manufacture abroad, and some foreign companies have manufacturing in America. Subsidiaries are listed in parenthesis. Subsidiaries may or may not have specific headquarters in countries separate from their parents. Some of these companies or their subsidiaries own shares in competitors' companies (e.g. a European subsidiary of Bridgestone is the larges minority shareholder of Nokian; Cooper owns ~10% of Kumho). Yeah, it's not as simple as some of your thought, right?

If a list of where tires are manufactured is desired, I could probably put one together, but it would be significantly more work. Manufacturing is much more complicated as companies often manufacture in multiple locations in multiple countries and manufacturing location can often vary by model and/or market. It's very messy.



American
  • Goodyear (Dunlop (Fierce), Kelly) (minor ownership in Sumitomo)
  • Cooper (Mickey Thompson (Dick Cepek), Dean, Mastercraft, Starfire, Avon, Roadmaster, Chenshan, Austone, Fortune, Mentor)
  • Hercules
  • Interco
  • Pit Bull
  • Pro Comp

Japanese
  • Bridgestone (Firestone, Primewell)
  • Yokohama
  • Toyo (Nitto)
  • Sumitomo (Multi-mile, Falken) (Minor ownership in Goodyear)

French
  • Michelin (BFG, Uniroyal, Kleber, Tigar, Riken, Kormoran)

German
  • Continental (General)

Italian
  • Pirelli

South Korean
  • Hankook
  • Kumho
  • Nexen

Chinese
  • Nankang
  • Federal
  • Kenda
  • Maxxis

Indian
  • Apollo (Vredestein)

Finnish
  • Nokian
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Unread 02-02-2014, 10:02 AM   #614
TrailJ
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My Cooper at3 have m+s snow flake on them.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 01:39 PM   #615
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
Great review and pics rebel - thanks. And it's ref reshing to see someone who likes BFG, who offer the biggest range of sizes of any mfr in the KO model. What do you think about the new KO, is it something you will try?
Cooper AT3, Mastercraft AXT, Hercules AT2, Multimile Wild Country XTX Sport LT all come in a huge variety of sizes too.

I think their size selection equals or perhaps exceeds BFG AT size selection. For example, both 245 & 265 are offered in load C & E by Cooper and those other brands. BFG AT only offers those sizes in load E.

Hankook ATM and Goodyear Adventurer only offer those sizes in load E.

When it comes to size and load rating selection choices, Cooper, Mastercraft, Hercules, and Multimile are excellent. So is BFG, but I thing C, M, H, & M offer even more choices. The exception being that both BFG & General offer 33 x 10.5 R15.

A good thing about all these brands is they each offer my favorite size 30 x 9.5 R15.
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