Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one! - Page 40 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Tires & Wheels > Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one!

Dan's Old as Dirt Birthday Sale!Premium LED Lighting by VISION X, Proudly sold at ROCKRIDGGEARSHADE Pocket Tops in stock and available at ROCKRIDGE

Reply
Unread 01-30-2014, 05:29 PM   #586
wadeholiday
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by 970001zj View Post
bfg a/t = worst tire ever except n the desert then it is mediocre

manager got them cheap or free

OK,
no BFG's, enough of these comments mixed w/ raves. gotta be some truth in it.

thx,
w

wadeholiday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-30-2014, 05:39 PM   #587
mschi772
Web Wheeler
 
mschi772's Avatar
1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 1,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeholiday View Post
Yes, I think the reason the duratracs were bad is that I compare them to my wifes car, and my beemer, which had pirelli sotozero winter's on it.
that is another thing I have to think on, I only have 3 mo of winter left, but maybe I'll get a winter tire, and then change to one of these, probably, bfg all terrain in april.

as far as my favorite mtb tires right now, I"m a fan of the wtb vigilante 2.3, tcs front, team issue rear. prior to that, schalbe hans damp front, nobby nic rear, but I like wtb as a local nor cal company. another aside about size... i just got some new mtb rims and am lacing them up, 40mm wide derby. we'll see about how the really wide rim thing works, I like to run low pressure, and believe the really wide rims will be great. riding is lake tahoe XC, some enduro/super D races like downieville and northstar.

why no love in this thread for bfg At? seems well loved elsewhere. Manager at discount says he ran the ATM rf10, but went back to bfg AT and its his favorite.

Thx!
Wade
I'd like to try wider rims since breaking my wheels last year, but I'm set on lacing some off-center-drilled Velocities to the rear (got some vintage White Industries hubs for birthday!). I wish I could cram a slightly wider rim and tire up front, but my narrow front fork would probably have something to say about that. Selection of rims with machined sidewalls for V-brakes is getting slimmer and slimmer, too. Disc brakes aren't really an option on a 2000 Klein unfortunately.

I haven't used WTB Vigilantes, but one of my favorites is the quasi-similar Panaracer FireXC Pro (so cliche, though). Bontrager Revolt SuperX was one of my favorite mild tires--I miss them for fast, dry trails. WTB Velociraptors will always have a special place with me as my first real tire, and for being just plain awesome in nasty, muddy junk (and great price, too). Kenda Nevegals were some I was considering, but their popularity was actually too much for me; I have too much of a desire to try to be different. I've got my fingers crossed for the Moto/Nano combo. I'll probably always have some Velociraptors around just in case conditions call for them, though


The BFG AT is fine. I just personally believe it is very overrated. It is old tech. It's great in dry, rocky, sandy places, but it's hardly the king of everything that many BFG AT fanatics would like to believe and is especially annoying in the snow in my experience (just sort of inelegantly pushes the snow ahead of it and squirrels around instead of driving on/through it). The General AT2 is a very similar design from the same old-school thought the BFG AT is from, but it's a little better about snow (still not nearly my favorite in snow) and probably (no personal experience here) better with mud and significantly cheaper. Similarly, Treadwright has a clone of the BFG AT in the form of their Warden for way cheaper. They are cheaper because they are retreads, and if you happen to have fears of retreads, I'm fully prepared to challenge you to reconsider; a sample of my confidence with retreads can be found in post 535 of this thread (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/n...l#post19697105)
mschi772 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-30-2014, 05:49 PM   #588
970001zj
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeholiday View Post
OK,
no BFG's, enough of these comments mixed w/ raves. gotta be some truth in it.

thx,
w
the treads pack with mud and effectively become bald and the compound is made for very long (high heat) life not cold weather grip

the general consensus is they bribe whomever is doing the snowflake rating and give free tires as kickbacks
__________________
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/its-jeep-grand-cherokee-you-1443132/#post14516738
970001zj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 07:29 AM   #589
wadeholiday
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14
lt vs p

OK,

so i realized that 275/70r17 is an LT instead of a P.

so, heavier, but stiffer sidewalls, so less body roll?

negatives? rougher, worse milage.

are the LT atm rf10s goo too?

thx!
wadeholiday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #590
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 3,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeholiday View Post
OK,

so i realized that 275/70r17 is an LT instead of a P.

so, heavier, but stiffer sidewalls, so less body roll?

negatives? rougher, worse milage.

are the LT atm rf10s goo too?

thx!
LT come in load C, D, or E. I recommend C.

You only got some minor heckling from one guy.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 03:42 PM   #591
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 3,371
A friend of mine bought Goodgear Adventurer and he's really impressed with them and he told me various ad advantages he likes about them. He got me interested in them. After much researching of them I am impressed too.

Mschi, you're getting on my nerve. Every day you write about tires that you don't personally own and I never give you grief. Don't be a hypocrit. If you want to limit me to only posting about tires I've owned, start by you only posting about tires you've owned. That would reduce your posts by probably 90%.

Though of course I don't really expect you to do that, and you shouldn't have to. You do provide a lot of good info. Some based on what you've owned, and some based on your research, and often a combination.

Based on their specs, magazine reviews, and user reviews, the Hankook ATM, Goodyear Adventurer LT, and General Grabber AT2 are the toughest ATs that I know of. If you know of any ATs that are tougher, list them. Perhaps Toyo AT2 LT is also a contender.
The things about the GY Adventurer that I think makes it good for him is it's tread pattern and depth are betseen a typicall all season tire and a typical all terrain tire. It's stout contruction (especially of LT sizes) would give it the very stable sidewalls (that he wants).
However, there's more to a good tire than toughness. I also like nice ride quality (soft ride). Usually tougher tires ride rougher. So I look for tires that have the combination of tough enough for my needs and ride soft enough ride for my needs.

That's why for my needs I prefer Cooper AT3 and related tires like Mastercraft AXT, Hercules AT2, Multi Mile Wild Country XTX, & Dick Cepek Trail Country.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 04:00 PM   #592
Charley3
Web Wheeler
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 3,371
I want to add that Mschi is correct that taller sidewalls won't have as crisp handing.

Also, a prior poster was correct that deeper tread is less stable. So less crisp handling.

The GY Adventurer has slightly less tread depth and reputedly stiffer sidewalls than most ATs. The Hankook ATM also reputedly has slightly stiffer sidewalls than most AT, but has as deep a tread as other deep tread ATs.
__________________
Warning: Sometimes I edit a post a few times to get it how I want it.
Charley3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 05:16 PM   #593
KKiowaTJ
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,446
Im loving my GG AT2's right now. We had 2-3" of snow when I left and drove back following the gf in her Cherokee. It was around 5"+/- in our area and I didn't even touch the 4wd today.
They stopped and accelerated like it was on gravel. Solid, But yet a little more power and fun begins. The base of the road was ice so I know what traction I had either way, Just decided to try out 2wd abilities, F'N amazing is all I have to say!
Her Cherokee has the cooper ATR's, IMO one of the best a/t's cooper ever made for a DD.
__________________
YJ, TJ, XJ, ZJ..... Too many Jeeps!
KKiowaTJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 05:23 PM   #594
mschi772
Web Wheeler
 
mschi772's Avatar
1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 1,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
A friend of mine bought Goodgear Adventurer and he's really impressed with them and he told me various ad advantages he likes about them. He got me interested in them. After much researching of them I am impressed too.

Mschi, you're getting on my nerve. Every day you write about tires that you don't personally own and I never give you grief. Don't be a hypocrit. If you want to limit me to only posting about tires I've owned, start by you only posting about tires you've owned. That would reduce your posts by probably 90%.

Though of course I don't really expect you to do that, and you shouldn't have to. You do provide a lot of good info. Slme based on what you've owned, and some based on your research, and often a combination.

Based on their specs, magazine reviews, and user reviews, the Hankook ATM, Goodyear Adventurer LT, and General Grabber AT2 are the toughest ATs that I know of. If you know of any ATs that are tougher, list them. Perhaps Toyo AT2 LT is also a contender.
Yikes, I didn't mean to come off as judgmental. I simply noticed a seemingly abrupt change in your attitude/interest regarding them and thought maybe you got some or otherwise experienced them. There was no "between-the-lines" in my post, and I'm sorry if it came-off that way (which is possible since my recent sour mood has been trickling into my social conduct). Adventurers are on my radar, so I'm pleased to hear that you have solid positive feedback about them to share.

One need not own a tire to gain experience with them. I've gained tons of experience with various tires using friend's vehicle, but even more importantly with the use of vehicles at my place of employment. One of our trucks just got some Nexen Rodian AT2's in place of its old BFG AT's, so I might get to play around with those now, too (unlikely though as I rarely use that truck).

Tires I have personal experience with:

BFG AT
BFG Radial
BFG Commercial
Bridgestone...can't remember;doesn't matter--both the one my Caddy had and the one my Jeep had were terrible--they were both low-end OE type garbage
Cooper Discoverer AT3 (still limited amount of experience)
Cooper ATP (limited to rear of a truck; yeah, stupid combo)
Firestone Precision Touring
Firestone Destination AT
Firestone Destination LE2 (limited to front of a truck)
General Grabber AT2
Goodyear Wrangler Radial
Goodyear Wrangler SRA
Goodyear Wrangler GSA
Hankook Dynapro HT
Hercules Terra Trac AT2 (still limited amount of experience)
Kumho Road Venture SAT
Michelin Primacy MXV4
Michelin LTX MS
Treadwright Guard Dog

Also way back there was a Goodyear Eagle I can't recall exactly as well as a Uniroyal something or other. I remember the tires' performance; just not their model names. I'm certainly forgetting other tires I've used at this time as well; I'll add them to the list if I think of them. No, this isn't meant to be a pissing contest. I figured you or someone else might be curious, and even if not, I find it helpful to myself to have plopped an entire list in one place as a reminder for myself.


Toughness is an attribute I'm uncomfortable with. Almost any data I can ever find regarding it (even within my own experience) is subjective/speculative at best. Is the General AT2 really that much tougher than others? People claim it should be because of its construction, but that's merely a hypothesis (one I share). Does Kevlar really make its respective tires any tougher? It's a fair assumption (again, I share the hypothesis), but where's the objective testing to demonstrate that it's true in the real world? I know how to get a fair idea of road noise, ride comfort, rolling resistance, traction, and tread life. I even know how I'd test most of those things in a controlled, truly scientific/objective way. Toughness? Testing that would almost certainly mean damaging a lot of tires to find the truth--something I can't afford to do.

For my own purposes, I'm willing to accept the above assumptions as being true when shopping/comparing tires, but I feel uncomfortable telling others that it's factual without really knowing for sure.

I would like to incorporate full disclosure regarding my experience/sources into all of my posts, but that's a hefty habit to form. I'm working on it, however.
mschi772 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 06:31 PM   #595
Ed209
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKiowaTJ View Post
Im loving my GG AT2's right now. We had 2-3" of snow when I left and drove back following the gf in her Cherokee. It was around 5"+/- in our area and I didn't even touch the 4wd today.
They stopped and accelerated like it was on gravel. Solid, But yet a little more power and fun begins. The base of the road was ice so I know what traction I had either way, Just decided to try out 2wd abilities, F'N amazing is all I have to say!
Her Cherokee has the cooper ATR's, IMO one of the best a/t's cooper ever made for a DD.
I was thinking the pkup was 4x2, anyway, you'll be even more impressed in 4wd, and they're even better on a TJ. Maybe you can exchange those Hercules for GAT2s you should have put on the TJ.
Ed209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 07:01 PM   #596
wadeholiday
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14
10 ply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
LT come in load C, D, or E. I recommend C.

You only got some minor heckling from one guy.

Looks like atm only come in 10ply, E.

all the E's seem to be 10lbs or more heavier then P or C,
and don't seem to make sense on a jeep.

lose power, and mpg for something that isn't neccesary.

so, ATM in the LT is out.

i had a break to try to figure this out today, and was all over the board.
going blizzak, hakkaillitti 7 for a bit,

then

yokohama AT/s

but thinking just going to the smaller duratracs, in a C,

drop 11lb per tire, so less of hit on mpg, shorter sidewall, so less 'tippy',
and good for non winter tire.

2 mo left of winter, and long term forecast is not good, so dedicated winters should probably wait till next year.

looked at gy adventure w/ kevlar. Looks interesting, they say winter in "pro grade", that probably means the LT E rated as well I suppose. If the lighter one is winter rated, could be a good solution.

Thx Gents.

Cheers,
W
wadeholiday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 08:06 PM   #597
KKiowaTJ
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
I was thinking the pkup was 4x2, anyway, you'll be even more impressed in 4wd, and they're even better on a TJ. Maybe you can exchange those Hercules for GAT2s you should have put on the TJ.


Its the ZR2 package s10's. Same weight and set-up, Just longer WB. I cant wait for the full storm to come, They say 10-12" by the time its over. Wish I had a gopro camera or id take a vid of this gnarly one lane path through the forest I live in. It has two creek crossings and a huge loose hill.

I put the cooper at3's on the TJ, I drove it 20 miles or so and they are just great on road. It sees more in town stop and go, And they did their job. Im surprised at how these new a/t tires are doing and the direction they are heading.
That and the hybrid tires, They have been around for awhile, But just now gaining more attention since most want to get away from buying m/t tires every couple years at $1000+.
__________________
YJ, TJ, XJ, ZJ..... Too many Jeeps!
KKiowaTJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 09:06 PM   #598
Ed209
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKiowaTJ View Post
Its the ZR2 package s10's. Same weight and set-up, Just longer WB. I cant wait for the full storm to come, They say 10-12" by the time its over. Wish I had a gopro camera or id take a vid of this gnarly one lane path through the forest I live in. It has two creek crossings and a huge loose hill.

I put the cooper at3's on the TJ, I drove it 20 miles or so and they are just great on road. It sees more in town stop and go, And they did their job. Im surprised at how these new a/t tires are doing and the direction they are heading.
That and the hybrid tires, They have been around for awhile, But just now gaining more attention since most want to get away from buying m/t tires every couple years at $1000+.
Good to hear those two ATs are workin out for ya. The next good MT alternative could be the new KO hybrid.
Ed209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-31-2014, 10:31 PM   #599
KKiowaTJ
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
Good to hear those two ATs are workin out for ya. The next good MT alternative could be the new KO hybrid.



I like the looks of it, But the minimal DD my trail jeep gets id rather have some m/t's or big lug tires. Kinda liking mud grapplers or creepy crawlers a the moment.
But im not ruling it out and hope they make it more aggressive and a good, Deep tread that is true to size. Not a BFG fan unless krawlers, But the new KO caught my eye.
__________________
YJ, TJ, XJ, ZJ..... Too many Jeeps!
KKiowaTJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2014, 12:26 PM   #600
JPGoody
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Harbor Springs, MI
Posts: 262
Mini update:

Herc Terra Trac AT IIs performed wonderfully in the rain, slurpee, snow, frozen slush, hard pack ice, snow sandwich bomb that hit the mts/city right before the weekend.
JPGoody is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.