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Unread 11-30-2013, 11:11 PM   #421
Charley3
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Here's a couple more tires I found:

Goodyear Authority (an AT). I don't have any info about its performance.

Goodyear Territory (a hybrid, IMO). A cousin to Duratrac, IMO, but I think Duratrac would be better on snow and ice (more center tread blocks and more sipes).

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Unread 12-03-2013, 10:02 AM   #422
JPGoody
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
JPGoody, please keep us informed how the Hercules AT2 are working for you.
Will do.

I got a bit lazy over Turkey week and missed some good painting days. And by lazy I mean thirsty,

I prepped 2 of the rims yesterday after I got my doors adjusted. Big snow coming so I'll be able to get in the garage and get the other rims ready for paint. Then I play the waiting game. But here in CO a warm day is just around the corner.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 08:48 AM   #423
Hytek
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I had the Nitto Terra Grappler A/T's installed on my WJ last night. One size bigger than stock at 245/65-17. So far initial impression is good. Ride well, softer than the GY Assurance tires they replaced. However with only 25ish miles on them they're a little noisier than I expected on smooth roads. Surprisingly they seem a little louder inside than the Duratracs on my ZJ. We'll see how they break in after a few thousand miles. This weekend we're expecting some snow on Sunday so hopefully they don't let me down. I'll report back after I put some more miles on them.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 09:57 AM   #424
1997xj
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Winter update on toyo at2

I got into some snow and ice the other day so thought I'd post my impressions. On snow the at2s did great.

I was in about 3-4" of unbroken snow on trails and was very happy with them. Gripped well and reacted predictably. On glazed paved roads wasn't so impressed. I usually use winter tires in the winter (x-ice or blizzak) so I may be biased, but I felt like I had a bit less traction than others on the road. Granted most people drive like idiots the first real weather of the year but I was hoping for a bit better performance. Was far from the only person slipping but I didn't feel comfortable at the speed of traffic. Whether I was just driving for the conditions or had less traction will have to be determined

Back on frozen packed icy snow on the trail the were good. Hopped out of the Cherokee to put my dog back in before decending a hill and I was surprised to have a tough time keeping my feet under me. Had to hold on to the roof to keep upright. 4 lo and made it down just fine.

So I'm going to drive them a bit more in icy conditions before I come to any conclusions, but I'm considering winter tires now for those conditions I'm east of Vancouver bc and we get more of these conditions than outright snow

Hope that helps your decision!
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Unread 12-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #425
Charley3
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Warning... Any tires have less traction when new. It takes about 500 miles for mold lubricant to wear off or wash off, and for tread blocks to get scuffed (scuffing increases traction).

Also, it takes about that long (or longer) for carcass to get flexible (broken in).

So beware of new tires on snow, ice, or wet pavement.

It also takes 100 to 300 miles (or several days to a week) for mounting lubricant (mounting tire on wheel) to dry up. Until then, the tires can slip/rotate on the wheels during hare acceleration or hard braking. That can cause very squirrely braking. Also, if tire spins on wheel it is then out of balance.

So drive easy and careful for first several hundred miles after getting new tires. Avoid hard braking or accelerating. And you can't acheive full traction potential until after 500 to 1000 miles.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 08:28 PM   #426
Hytek
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Great tip Charley thanks.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 09:14 PM   #427
Charley3
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Also, newly mounted tires should stay on pavement and avoid gravel, sand, and mud for the first few hundred miles or first week.

That is because the lubricant they use to mount tire on wheel takes a few days to a week to dry, or 100 to 300 miles to dry. (Dries faster in Summer, slower in Winter)

During the time the mounting lube is still wet on bead mounting area and inside tire/wheel, small pieces of gravel, sand, or mud can get in bead area between tire bead and wheel. That will cause slow leaks.

So if possible, for a week after mounting a tire, keep on pavement. If you can't do that for a week, then at least do it for 2 to 3 days. It's an easy way to prevent slow leaks.

Once the bead mounting lube dries it's no longer a lube. Then it's more like glue and no foreign objects will enter bead area (if you have adequate tire pressure).

Also, it's a good idea to keep the tires at a higher street pressure for a few days to a week (until after bead lube is dry). After that, lower the tire pressure to whatever you want to run on street.

These tips help prevent slow leaks at the bead mounting area. My tires can go 1 to 2 months with no pressure loss (if weather doesn't get colder).
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Unread 12-07-2013, 12:58 AM   #428
Charley3
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Hercules Avalanche X-treme LT tires, and Hercules Avalanche X-treme Passenger tires.

It isn't an all terrain tire (technically), but I sure like it. In load C, D, and E it's pretty much an AT that excels at Winter conditions, but can also be used year round.

It's a Winter tire made to be used year round. Reviewers say it typically lasts around 45K miles of year round use. That's really good mileage for a Winter tire. A typical AT lasts around 55K miles.

It works well enough as a year round AT in moderate to cold climates, and it's awesome for Winter, according to Canadian reviewers and reviewers in colder parts of USA at some other forums.

It comes in many sizes, including some taller SUV and truck sizes that other brands of Winter tires don't come in. It's available in sizes up to 33" tall. Possibly taller.

I'm seriously considering it for my future Buick car tires and possibly Jeep tires.

It's available in a wide variety of sizes and in P, C, D, and E.

Edited in Later: I know a Winter tire rated for year round use isn't as tough as an AT tire rated for Winter use, but I think it's tough enough for those who aren't abusing their tire sidewalls on rocks and stumps.
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Unread 12-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #429
Markmontana
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
During the time the mounting lube is still wet on bead mounting area and inside tire/wheel, small pieces of gravel, sand, or mud can get in bead area between tire bead and wheel. That will cause slow leaks.
Holy cow. Are you 100% serious? I'm having a real hard time grasping this concept...
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Unread 12-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #430
Charley3
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Originally Posted by Markmontana View Post
Holy cow. Are you 100% serious? I'm having a real hard time grasping this concept...
I read that at a tire manufacturer or tire store website on a webpage that describes new tire break in procedures.

I asked my local tire store about it. They confirmed it.

They said in Summer 2 days or 100 miles, in Winter 4 or 5 days or around 300 miles, and then the bead lube is dry for sure.

They also said I could disregard that advice and I might not have problems, but if I disregard it there'd be a chance of slow leak.

So I follow that advice and my Buick and Jeep tires hold air really well. No slow leaks at all. They can hold air for 2 months with no pressure loss.
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Unread 12-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #431
Ed209
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Also, newly mounted tires should stay on pavement and avoid gravel, sand, and mud for the first few hundred miles or first week.

That is because the lubricant they use to mount tire on wheel takes a few days to a week to dry, or 100 to 300 miles to dry. (Dries faster in Summer, slower in Winter)

During the time the mounting lube is still wet on bead mounting area and inside tire/wheel, small pieces of gravel, sand, or mud can get in bead area between tire bead and wheel. That will cause slow leaks.

So if possible, for a week after mounting a tire, keep on pavement. If you can't do that for a week, then at least do it for 2 to 3 days. It's an easy way to prevent slow leaks.

Once the bead mounting lube dries it's no longer a lube. Then it's more like glue and no foreign objects will enter bead area (if you have adequate tire pressure).

Also, it's a good idea to keep the tires at a higher street pressure for a few days to a week (until after bead lube is dry). After that, lower the tire pressure to whatever you want to run on street.

These tips help prevent slow leaks at the bead mounting area. My tires can go 1 to 2 months with no pressure loss (if weather doesn't get colder).
Yet another good reason to learn to mount your own tires using soapy water instead of gorilla snot(tire shop term for mounting lube). Soapy water dries up much faster.
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Unread 12-08-2013, 11:05 AM   #432
streetglideok
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GM actually had a TSB out, concerning tire slippage on rims. Basically the bulletin dealt with recent tire mountings, and that until the lube dries the tire could slip on the rim. This would lead to vibrations since the wheel weights would no longer be oriented right. The bulletin was to inform customers to refrain from hard acceleration for a few days.
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Unread 12-08-2013, 04:02 PM   #433
Charley3
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Originally Posted by streetglideok View Post
GM actually had a TSB out, concerning tire slippage on rims. Basically the bulletin dealt with recent tire mountings, and that until the lube dries the tire could slip on the rim. This would lead to vibrations since the wheel weights would no longer be oriented right. The bulletin was to inform customers to refrain from hard acceleration for a few days.
I think that would apply no matter what type mounting lube was used.
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Unread 12-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #434
Charley3
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Mickey Thompson STZ and D!ck Cepek Trail Country are two great ATs that have been overlooked in this thread untill now.

They are related to Cooper AT3.

Cooper owns Mickey Thompson, D!ck Cepek, and Mastercraft and makes their tires. Hercules in an independent company whose AT2 Is manufactured by Cooper and is based on a combination of Cooper and Hercules technology.

So all these tires are close relatives to Cooper AT3: Mickey Thompson STZ, D!ck Cepek Trail Country, Mastercraft AXT, and Hercules AT2.

Hankook is an unrelated brand, but the Hankook ATM has a similar tread pattern to the above list of tires (especially the MickeyThompson STZ and Mastercraft AXT).

The Toyo AT2 and Nitto Terra Grappler also have similar tread to the tires mentioned above.

These are all 5 lug tread designs and all the newer ones (i.e. - other than Nitto Terra Grappler) have lugs tied together in pairs for reduced tread squirm and increased dry pavement cornering/handling.

Note: the Mickey Thompson SXT, D!ck Cepek Trail Country, and Hankook ATM don't offer as many load C choices as Cooper AT3, Mastercraft AXT, or Hercules AT2.
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Unread 12-08-2013, 05:08 PM   #435
Charley3
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Interlocking tread ATs (BFG AT for example) were the best ATs in the past. The best in their day

They're still quite good at the things they excel at: sand, rocks, desert, snow, and high speed cornering ability on and off road.

The weakness of the interlocking tread designs is mud. They don't self clean very well and clog easily. This also means they don't dig much, which might explain why they float well on sand.

The other weakness of interlocking tread designs is they hydroplane more easily on wet highway. However, this might also be related to why they float so well on sand.

So I think their excellent prowess on sand (float well, don't dig much) is related to their poor performance on mud and wet highways.

So I think these tires are still excellent choices for desert, beach conditions, and high speed on and off road, which is what they were designed for (prerunning deserts at high speed) decades ago.

The Grabber AT2 has many self cleaning aids/ridges between treadblocks. So I assume it self cleans better than BFG AT or Definity Dakota AT.

The 3 tires that come to mind are BFG AT, General Grabber AT2, and Definity Dakota AT. I've owned the BFG AT & Grabber AT2. If I ever try an interlocking tread design again, I'll try the Dakota AT.

Though probably I'll stay with the new 5 lug designs with lugs tied together in pairs, especially the ones with circumferential grooves (increased self cleaning and reduced hydroplaning) like Cooper AT3, Mastercraft AXT, and Hercules AT2. The modern 5 lug designs aren't made for prerunning deserts. They are made for all purpose use, including some mud ability and excellent highway manners, including no hydroplaning.
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