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Unread 11-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #391
TrailJ
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So what are some good light weight wheels?

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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:06 PM   #392
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Now that I think of it, my cousins have had a few flats (over many years) with load C and D tires, but those were all tread punctures, not sidewall punctures. Over all, they've had few problems.

I have never had a sidewall or tread puncture of a load C tire. When I had P passenger tires I had a few tread punctures, but never a sidewall problem.

IMO tougher tread is most important. So those tires that put Kevlar in the tread area have put it where it's most needed. Additionally putting Kevlar in sidewalls is unnecessary for most people, but a few people may need it for certain activities that are hard on sidewalls.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:14 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by TrailJ View Post
So what are some good light weight wheels?
Any 15 x 7 aluminum wheel (aftermarket or stock Jeep wheels) is light. My personal favorites are Jeep stock 15 x 7 wheels. My most favorite stock Jeep wheels are Grizzly and Ecco wheels (cause they look good, IMO). My favorite aftermarket is American Racing Ansen Sprint.

The next lightest is 15 x 8 or 16 x 7 aluminum wheels (aftermarket or stock Jeep wheels) are light.

My personal favorite 15 x 8 are Jeep stock wheels. My most favorite stock Jeep 15 x 8 wheels are Canyon and Ravine wheels (cause they look good, IMO). My favorite aftermarket are American Racing Ansen Sprint (4.5 BS).

My personal favorites 16 x 7 are Jeep stock 16 x 7 wheels. My most favorite stock Jeep 16 x 7 wheels are Icon and Silverstar wheels (cause they look good, IMO).

16 x 8 aluminum wheels are to heavy and I don't like them for that reason.

For more about stock Jeep wheel weight(s) see this thread http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/f...ights-1562713/
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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Due to more weight and stiffer ride, I don't consider the MTR a good daily driver tire.
The MTR "E" came stock on my 05 Rubicon. Not a hybrid tire but a MT tire. At 20psi it is somewhat bearable. Most people I've talked to think there are better tires available than the MTR. Thus my interest in this thread. I want a soft quieter ride and of course everything else in the world. But, mostly a soft ride. Changed springs to OME and I don't want to waste this on bad tires. The MTR's I've had for 9 years have never had a flat, always a good point. But, I'll risk a flat for a good ride. Priorities.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 05:08 AM   #395
Ed209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
That's because you have an LJ Rubicon (heavy Jeep with heavy Moab wheels).

That is exactly why I sold my LJ Rubicon and went back to XJs. With an XJ, I'm putting tennis shoes (lighter tires) on a lighter vehicle with light weight Ecco wheels.

But even with your Rhino/Hippo, why make it worse? Your philosophy is like a fat man (fat Jeep) saying f*** it, I'm not going to diet because I'm already so fat I may as well not worry about my weight.

Weren't you recently looking to save weight on wheels and tires? What happened to you? Your new philosophy about vehicle weight reminds of a fat guy who was going to diet, but then gave up and ate a donut shop.

Earlier you wanted to lose weight on wheels and tires. Now you seem to want to gain it, or justify gaining it.

I am a bit perplexed by your 180 degree change of attitude about weight, but it's your Jeep to do with as you please.
Where'd you get this LJ business? It's a TJ. Whose trying to gain weight? LOSING tire/wheel weight is fine if I don't give up anything, like a strong orig equipment wheel with perfect backspacing for the 1" wider Rubi flares and a great all around AT with strong sidewalls. On top of that, I don't think losing 10lbs per corner would increase my 16.3 mpg enough to justify the cost.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjamesw1 View Post
The MTR "E" came stock on my 05 Rubicon. Not a hybrid tire but a MT tire. At 20psi it is somewhat bearable. Most people I've talked to think there are better tires available than the MTR. Thus my interest in this thread. I want a soft quieter ride and of course everything else in the world. But, mostly a soft ride. Changed springs to OME and I don't want to waste this on bad tires. The MTR's I've had for 9 years have never had a flat, always a good point. But, I'll risk a flat for a good ride. Priorities.
I assume you are still stock height with Moabs, so it sounds like the Duratrac load C LT245/75-16 is a perfect fit for you. It only weighs 40 lbs.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 01:05 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
I assume you are still stock height with Moabs, so it sounds like the Duratrac load C LT245/75-16 is a perfect fit for you. It only weighs 40 lbs.
Staying with the stock size tire (245x75r16) does have it's advantages. Actually, I'm not at stock height, but close and I still have the Moab wheels. First thing I did back in 05 was to give it a 1" BL so I could install a belly up skid. Plus recently I installed the OME springs to level it out after a winch install. This actually gives me room for a 255x85r16 tire. But, I felt a 33"+ size tire is to tall for the stock 4.11 gearing. I also like the lower center of gravity more than most as I sometimes drive at higher speeds in the Utah desert. Up to 60mph over washboard roads. It makes sense for me to run a AT type tire as this fits the Utah terrain better than a MT type tire. The 265x75r16 Duratrac "C" is quoted at around 45lbs and is still almost 5lbs lighter than the stock MTR tires. These should not be a big issue with the stock 4.11 gearing as per others running a similar set-up. However, either 265x75 or the 245x75 "C" Duratracs both appear to be a valid option for me. I was thinking that the 265x75 being the same size as my F350 tires (except for E load factor) might save me buying an extra spare tire as I can use my old tires as spares. I'll just do a 4 tire rotation vs a 5 tire rotation.

Since I suddenly need truck tires (two are cracking), I plan to mount one of my old truck 265x75 tires to my spare Moab wheel and test fit it to the Jeep at all five locations. This is just to verify the size (extra width) fits OK before the actual purchase is made for the jeep.

Last edited by jeepjamesw1; 11-20-2013 at 01:39 PM..
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Unread 11-21-2013, 12:54 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjamesw1 View Post
The MTR "E" came stock on my 05 Rubicon. Not a hybrid tire but a MT tire. At 20psi it is somewhat bearable. Most people I've talked to think there are better tires available than the MTR. Thus my interest in this thread. I want a soft quieter ride and of course everything else in the world. But, mostly a soft ride. Changed springs to OME and I don't want to waste this on bad tires. The MTR's I've had for 9 years have never had a flat, always a good point. But, I'll risk a flat for a good ride. Priorities.
The ideal AT tires for good ride are Cooper AT3, Mastercraft AXT, Hercules AT2, and BFG AT.

I'd recommend any of those in load C for a combination of good ride and tough enough for normal off road use. The also get reasonably good gas mileage.

The Cooper AT3, Mastercraft AXT, and Hercules AT2 have same carcass. So they should have same ride quality.

Consumer Reports tested most ATs and then stated Cooper AT3 has softest ride and is among the best handling ATs.

I have owned BFG AT, and now own Cooper AT3, both in 30 x 9.5 R15 load C, both on stock XJs, and in both cases with same shocks (Monroe Sensitrac). IMO both tires ride equally well for soft ride and are both tough enough too. However, the Cooper AT3 is quieter, doesn't hydroplane on highway, and has better mud traction.

I have not personally tried Mastercraft AXT or Hercules AT2, but I am sure they are excellent too.

I don't know how soft riding Goodyear Silent Armor or Adventurer are. I'd be interested to hear what users think of their ride quality.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 02:19 AM   #399
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Ed, a 245/75R16 load C (with appropriate tread) is an ideal size for excellent Winter road traction and I personally think is good off road for XJ, ZJ, TJ and all smaller Jeeps.

Some people will debate this, but many people say a more flexible tire has better traction than a stiffer tire. I have experienced this to be true. So load C is not only lighter, better riding, less rolling resistance (better gas mileage) than D or E, but C also offers better traction IMO.

In my experience, load C are plenty tough enough for a Jeep, especially in better brands

You can run 245/75R16 on 16 x 8 Moabs, but a 16 x 7 Silverstar or Icon would be a much better choice for 3 reasons: A 16 x 7 is lighter, protected by tire, and will hold a bead much better if you need to air down.

The narrower wheel is protected by tire sidewalls, which prevents wheel rash/chips from curbs when parallel parking and rocks off road.

If you need down some time, the 16 x 7 will hold a bead well with 245/75R16 tire.

By contrast, as 16 x 8 is unnecessarily heavy and to wide for the 9.5" wide tire. The 16 x 8 wheel will more easily get dinged by rocks because the wheel is wide relative to tire width. Also, the wide wheel with narrow tire combination can lose a bead when aired down.

The ideal wheel/tire width relationship for on road and general purpose off road use is wheel 2" to 2.5" narrower than tire section width.

So a 7" wide wheel with a 9.5" wide tire is ideal. A 245 is 9.5" wide. So a 245/75R16 tire on a 16 x 7 wheel is an ideal tire/wheel setup, and the 245 tire (or any 9" to 9.5" wide tire) is ideal for Winter roads.

An 8" wide wheel is ideal for a 10" to 10.5" wide tire. So a 16 x 8 is ideal with a 265/75R16 load C tire because that tire is 10.5" wide.

However, a 265 (10.5" wide) tire is not as ideal for Winter roads as a narrower 245 (9.5" wide) tire. A 265 would be good for Winter roads, but a 245 is better.

Perhaps I didn't explain the above well enough before.

I realize tire store specs for tire/wheel width possibilities are more permissive than what I said, but that's because they want to sell tires. So they tell the OK range for on road, but the aren't going for ideal, and they aren't thinking about off road issues like airing down and holding a bead or damaging a wheel on a rock.

I also realize that rockcrawlers like the wheel around 4" to 4.5" narrower than tire. Like an 8" wide wheel with 12.5" wide tire. That is so they can air down really low and hold a bead, and to protect wheel from rock damage. (Wide sidewalls stick way past narrow wheel) However, putting really wide tires on relatively narrow wheels causes several problems, such as can't get flat contact patch at a reasonable street pressure, which wears out center of tire prematurely and greatly reduces Winter road traction. Also, wide tires are already not good for Winter roads, then the crowned tire tread (not flat contact patch) reduces Winter traction even more.

The things I recommend are intended for a daily driver that drives on highway a lot and does general purpose off roading on a variety of terrains, and I always setup for Winter roads too. I'm about daily drivers for Northern USA and Canada. Since I'm in Northwest where hills, wet snow, and wet ice (wet is slickest) are common, I take Winter traction seriously.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 12:07 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
You can run 245/75R16 on 16 x 8 Moabs, but a 16 x 7 Silverstar or Icon would be a much better choice for 3 reasons: A 16 x 7 is lighter, protected by tire, and will hold a bead much better if you need to air down.

The narrower wheel is protected by tire sidewalls, which prevents wheel rash/chips from curbs when parallel parking and rocks off road.

This is true if your TJ is not a Rubicon with 1" wider flares. The Silverstar has the same BS as the Moab, so the 1" reduction all comes off the outside of the wheel. This is OK for a non-Rubi TJ, but not the Rubi, as it tucks the tire too far inside, which is why a 4.5" BS is needed for the Rubi. As far as protecting the wheel, I am more concerned with protecting the tire, which is 2 to 4 times more expensive than the wheel.

So a 7" wide wheel with a 9.5" wide tire is ideal. A 245 is 9.5" wide. So a 245/75R16 tire on a 16 x 7 wheel is an ideal tire/wheel setup, and the 245 tire (or any 9" to 9.5" wide tire) is ideal for Winter roads.

An 8" wide wheel is ideal for a 10" to 10.5" wide tire. So a 16 x 8 is ideal with a 265/75R16 load C tire because that tire is 10.5" wide.

While this is true for the smaller diameter, narrower ATs you prefer, as you said before, the Grabber AT2 is taller and wider than most ATs. It actually measures 10.2" on the 8" wide Moab, which is just about perfect, just as it was for the tall & wide orig equip MTR.

The things I recommend are intended for a daily driver that drives on highway a lot and does general purpose off roading on a variety of terrains, and I always setup for Winter roads too. I'm about daily drivers for Northern USA and Canada. Since I'm in Northwest where hills, wet snow, and wet ice (wet is slickest) are common, I take Winter traction seriously.

My Rubi will only be used for a DD in Snow/Ice conditions or for unmaintained county roads, gravel roads, hunting roads/trails. I believe the Grabber AT2s & Moabs will work well in all those cases with tire pressures no lower than 25 lbs.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 12:19 PM   #401
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The Rubi flares would not be a problem. I used to use 33 x 10.5 tires on a Rubi that had Warn 7" flares. It looked great. People used to come up to me in parking lots to admire it and tell me how awesome it looked.

Flares wider than tires looks good and your paint and mirrors stay cleaner.

So 245 tires on Silverstar or Icon wheels would look great. Icon might look better since they look more substantial, but Silverstar would look good too.

What might be a problem for you is losing a bead in some nasty off road or Winter situation if you air down a 245 much on a 16 x 8 wheel. With a 16 x 7 wheel you can air down a 245 as much as you want with no worries.

As for Grabber AT2 running tall and wide, I was referring to size 30 x 9.5 R15. I don't know (or don't remember) what the size situation is with Grabber AT2 in other sizes. So you be the judge of that. If it runs at least a half inch wide in 245/75R16 then your Moab may work fine.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 12:31 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
What might be a problem for you is losing a bead in some nasty off road or Winter situation if you air down a 245 much on a 16 x 8 wheel. With a 16 x 7 wheel you can air down a 245 as much as you want with no worries.
FYI-My stock 245x75 MTR's on 8" Moab factory wheels never lost a bead at 9psi while on Moab slick rock, but I'm sure a 7" wheel would work better. However, an AT type tire might give better traction on slick rock (less voids) and could slip on the wheel easier, causing a lost bead.

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Unread 11-21-2013, 12:55 PM   #403
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Yeah, people never bother to research, and they ask the same questions over and over and over....and that's why this was a colossal waste of your time, Charley3. Because no one searches, they'll never see this thread either, and the repeat threads will continue to come. That's why I just copy and paste a standard response, and if the OP is genuinely interested in learning more, I THEN respond to specific questions.
mschi772, I've come across your posts in several threads while searching tire info. Thanks for all the good info. This particular thread has stretches of being pretty (unintentionally) hilarious for a thread about tires.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 02:53 PM   #404
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mschi772, I've come across your posts in several threads while searching tire info. Thanks for all the good info. This particular thread has stretches of being pretty (unintentionally) hilarious for a thread about tires.
Eh, as you've seen, my opinion has changed on this thread. Charley has a weird super-power that allows his threads to flourish no matter what. I'm even forgiving of some of the dry spells within large threads like this as long as they're not too long or off-topic--sometimes all that can be said at a given time has already been covered, so the discussion wanders until something new comes along.

P.S. Thanks for the recognition. I'm glad to hear that my posts are helping "searchers" too.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
The Rubi flares would not be a problem. I used to use 33 x 10.5 tires on a Rubi that had Warn 7" flares. It looked great. People used to come up to me in parking lots to admire it and tell me how awesome it looked.

Flares wider than tires looks good and your paint and mirrors stay cleaner.

So 245 tires on Silverstar or Icon wheels would look great. Icon might look better since they look more substantial, but Silverstar would look good too.

What might be a problem for you is losing a bead in some nasty off road or Winter situation if you air down a 245 much on a 16 x 8 wheel. With a 16 x 7 wheel you can air down a 245 as much as you want with no worries.

As for Grabber AT2 running tall and wide, I was referring to size 30 x 9.5 R15. I don't know (or don't remember) what the size situation is with Grabber AT2 in other sizes. So you be the judge of that. If it runs at least a half inch wide in 245/75R16 then your Moab may work fine.
It would be a problem for me, not only in looking wrong, but because keeping the BS the same moves the wheel center line 1/2" inboard, reducing the track 1", which actually reduces rear spring tower/front control arm & tire clearance by .3". It wouldn't cause rubbing, but the Jeep engineers made the Moabs with the 5"(actually 5.125") BS for a reason - plenty of clearance. I don't plan to ever air down to rock climbing levels, so that's not a even a consideration. In addition, the slim spokes of the Silverstars would look completely out of place on the Rubi, so even if they had the correct 4.5" BS, I still wouldn't use them.

The Grabber AT2 is 9.8" wide on a 7" wheel, and is 10.2" wide on the 8" wide wheel, which IS working great on the Moabs with a level contact patch at 28-30 lbs!
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