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Unread 10-13-2013, 05:02 PM   #301
MountainMan864
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Any new info on the mt atz p3? probably pretty similar the cooper st maxx

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Unread 10-13-2013, 07:25 PM   #302
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMan864 View Post
Any new info on the mt atz p3? probably pretty similar the cooper st maxx
Sorry, I don't know anything about it, except my opinion based on looking at a pic of the treads.

My opinion based on looking at a pic of the treads is not enough sipes for good traction on ice or hard packed snow. Probably fine on deep snow. Probably good for all other things off road, just from looking at its pics.

I'm skeptical how good it'd be on highway, but that's only my impression based on its pics. Usually 5 lug wide tires aren't to good on highway. Typically it's the tires with 5 or more lugs wide that are better on highway. IMO

That's all I know, and it's based only on looking at the tread pics.

If it's a cousin of the Cooper ST Maxx (as you said), then it probably shares same carcass, in which case it's very tough (good), heavy (not good), and rough riding (not good for me, but some people don't care about ride quality).

===

If you are looking for first hand experience with it, I don't have any. I don't think anyone who is already participating in this thread has any first hand experience with it because no one has posted about it.

Hopefully someone will come along later who has some experience with it, and then they'll post about it.

For now, I suggest you Google it, and perhaps start a thread about it at JF, where you ask questions.

Good luck
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Unread 10-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #303
1997xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
To anyone reading this, he's referring to his Toyo AT2 235/75R15 on his XJ.

How deep was the mud?

Hard slick mud, or deeper goey mud, or deeper wet mud? Details please.

Were you in 2wd or 4wd? (I noticed your sig says you have limited slil rear-end)

Level, uphill?

How much did you spin, if any?

Were your tires aired down?
Details -

Deeper "gooey" prob 3-4" mud with a decent base. Most of the holes level but a few at a slight incline. Slipped very little if at all in 4x. Tried the same hole in 2x on the way back out and slipped a bit but still went right through. Pressure was 26 lbs with some camping gear

Did discover that at full compression the rear flaps rub pretty bad. Have to take them off unfortunately until I get my mild lift bought and installed
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8.25 rear with limited slip, liberty rear discs and prop valve, H4s and harness, header, throttle body, toyo at2 in 235/75r15, alpine system, high volume water pump. Gas tank skid and cruise control coming up.
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Unread 10-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #304
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997xj View Post
Details -

Deeper "gooey" prob 3-4" mud with a decent base. Most of the holes level but a few at a slight incline. Slipped very little if at all in 4x. Tried the same hole in 2x on the way back out and slipped a bit but still went right through. Pressure was 26 lbs with some camping gear

Did discover that at full compression the rear flaps rub pretty bad. Have to take them off unfortunately until I get my mild lift bought and installed
Sounds similar to my Cooper AT3 30 x 9.5 R15 in 4" gooey mud. Same or similar mud and grade slopes.

I only had 24.5 psi in rear tires, but I had no cargo.

I didn't spin at all in 2wd on way in, but couldn't get back out in 2wd. I had to put in 4wd to get back out.

I think coming out (on levelish ground) is always more difficult than going in because tires are more likely to start clogging on way out, and because the mud is already disturbed (more gooey).

Most times I got stuck in mud in the past with an old version of Cooper AT was on the way out.

The exception was BFG AT, which would get stuck in mud on the way in. So I never got in.

It sounds like the Cooper AT3 (LT version) and Toyo AT2 (LT version) are comparable in gooey mud.

===

To verify an important detail: I assumed your Toyo AT2 are the LT version load C. Is that correct?

The Toyo AT2 version LT have deeper tread and larger voids than P.

The Cooper AT3 version LT have deeper tread than P.
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Unread 10-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #305
1997xj
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Yup lt. Was in my orig post but that was a while ago
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8.25 rear with limited slip, liberty rear discs and prop valve, H4s and harness, header, throttle body, toyo at2 in 235/75r15, alpine system, high volume water pump. Gas tank skid and cruise control coming up.
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Unread 10-28-2013, 11:05 PM   #306
jeepjamesw1
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I'm looking at the Toyo AT2's or maybe the Cooper Discoverer S/T for my 05 TJ Rubicon to replace my stock 245x75r16 GY MTR's. I'd like to hear more about the Toyo AT2's and Cooper S/T's. I do some mud, mostly gravel roads and mountain trails with loose rock and a variety of everything including some sand, and 6 and below Moab trails.
I use OME springs and 1"BL. I prefer tires in either the 245x75r16 or 265x75r16 or 255x85r16. To bad there are not many AT tires in the 255x85R16 size. Looking for a good ride as my stock "E" rated tires ride hard at anything over 20psi.
My Rubicon came with "E" rated tires and some of the tire stores will not mount a lower rated tire. I think this is unfair. I think a LT in "C" rated AT tire would be my best bet, and I've enjoyed your comments about the Hercules Terra Trac AT2.

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Unread 10-31-2013, 12:57 AM   #307
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjamesw1 View Post
I'm looking at the Toyo AT2's or maybe the Cooper Discoverer S/T for my 05 TJ Rubicon to replace my stock 245x75r16 GY MTR's. I'd like to hear more about the Toyo AT2's and Cooper S/T's. I do some mud, mostly gravel roads and mountain trails with loose rock and a variety of everything including some sand, and 6 and below Moab trails.
I use OME springs and 1"BL. I prefer tires in either the 245x75r16 or 265x75r16 or 255x85r16. To bad there are not many AT tires in the 255x85R16 size. Looking for a good ride as my stock "E" rated tires ride hard at anything over 20psi.
My Rubicon came with "E" rated tires and some of the tire stores will not mount a lower rated tire. I think this is unfair. I think a LT in "C" rated AT tire would be my best bet, and I've enjoyed your comments about the Hercules Terra Trac AT2.
If a shop won't mount a load C on your Rubicon, they are to stupid work work on your Jeep. Find another shop.

Cooper AT3, Hercules AT2, and BFG AT are the best riding (soft riding) AT that are tough enough to want, IMO.

Toyo AT2 and Hankook ATM will ride a tad less soft (based on reviews I've read), but still ride pretty good. As good as a typical AT, maybe better.

Of all the ATs, I'm convinced the Hankook ATM is the best overall, other than riding a tad less soft than the 3 soft rides I mentioned.

I own the Cooper AT3 myself. I like it a lot, in part because I have a bad back and I need the soft ride.

The Toyo AT2 or Hankook ATM will ride good (soft) in load C. The Cooper AT3, Hercules AT2, and BFG AT will ride very soft in load C.

The other thing that will soften your ride a lot (while still maintaining good handling and control) is shocks and springs. Shocks most of all, springs second, and control arms 3rd. PM me if you want to discuss these things, but I'm trying to unpack and recover from moving my residence this week. So it might take a few days before I respond.
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Unread 11-01-2013, 10:36 AM   #308
jeepjamesw1
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[QUOTE=Charley3;17311674] Of all the ATs, I'm convinced the Hankook ATM is the best overall.....

Some reviews on the Hankook state that after a few miles it becomes a very loud tire. Are the Coopers less loud, meaning quiet? This is one of the complaints I had about the Goodyear MTR's

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Unread 11-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #309
Charley3
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Originally Posted by jeepjamesw1 View Post
Some reviews on the Hankook state that after a few miles it becomes a very loud tire. Are the Coopers less loud, meaning quiet? This is one of the complaints I had about the Goodyear MTR's
I've not owned Hankook ATM. So I don't know how loud they become with use. I've not read of any problems, but you have read of some. I don't know.

ConsumerReports tests say that when the tires are new, the Cooper AT3 is quieter than Hankook ATM, and the Cooper AT3 is quieter than all other ATs as well, according to ConsumerReports.

My own experience with the Cooper AT3 is they are silent. As quiet as a highway tire. So for noise (and ride quality) you can't beat a Cooper AT3.

Where the Hankook ATM excels above Cooper AT3 is the ATM has more sipes and that makes it slightly better on ice, and the ATM is an exceptinally round and well balanced tire that requires minimal balancing weights.

For my needs I prefer Cooper AT3 for it's exceptionally soft ride (for an AT), but I do really like the Hankook ATM a lot too.

I think you can't go wrong with either tire in smaller sizes. They are both excellent in smaller sizes (up to 31 or maybe 32, IMO).

In smaller tire sizes the Cooper AT3's need for more balance weights is a non issue. In larger tire sizes it might be a problem. The Hankook ATM is very well balanced. So for a larger size tire I'd prefer ATM. For smaller size tires either is an excellent tire. IMO.

I like my Cooper AT3 30 x 9.5 R15 load C just dandy. Now that I have a 1.5" lift, next time I'll buy Cooper AT3 245/75R16 load C (partly because Hankook ATM isn't available in 245 load C).
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Unread 11-02-2013, 11:32 PM   #310
970001zj
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i tested the atm's ice capability once in a parking lot by coming to a stop on 40' of flat ice that was pooled water a few days earlier

they combined with a limitedslip rear and awd to pull me away drama free

heres a shot of them on a different day and it happens to be the spot where i did the ice test



they do 55-80 just fine on snow (when we have it) dont know about faster though lol
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Unread 11-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #311
jeepjamesw1
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Has anyone had experience with the Toyo AT2's off road and in bad weather?
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Unread 11-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #312
Charley3
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One thing I have to say in favor of Cooper AT3 (compared to Hankook ATM) is the Cooper AT3 is much lighter.

Comparing 31 x 10.5 R15s the AT3 is 7 lbs lighter. That is signifigant, IMO.

So even though the AT3 is known to need more balancing weights than ATM, even so, the AT3 is still MUCH lighter weight.

So that's a big point in favor of the AT3 for my needs (daily driver).

I love both these tires and have often waffled back and forth on which I like better, but the weight difference finally settles it for me. I like Cooper AT3 better, but the ATM is still fantastic and is better (IMO) for people who need better ice traction and an extremely tough AT, but for my needs the AT3 has adequate ice traction and is tough enough, and its being much lighter, quieter, and softer ride is better for my daily driver needs.

I like the Cooper AT3 I have now in 30 x 9.5 R15, and when I buy 245/75R16C in the future, I'll buy Cooper AT3 again.

The Toyo AT2 is probably a really good AT too, but so far it's to soon for me to have an opinion on it. It's so new that few people have used it in a variety of conditioned and few have reviewed it. So I'm still waiting for more info on it.
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Unread 11-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #313
jeepjamesw1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
One thing I have to say in favor of Cooper AT3 (compared to Hankook ATM) is the Cooper AT3 is much lighter.
Comparing 31 x 10.5 R15s the AT3 is 7 lbs lighter.
I agree lighter is better as long as strength is not compromised to much for your use. Weight will make a difference. I've know people that have purchased large heavy tires and it makes their engine bog down so much it becomes unusable. One friend with wide 35's can not get his 04 Rubicon over 55mph.
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Unread 11-06-2013, 11:42 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjamesw1 View Post
One friend with wide 35's can not get his 04 Rubicon over 55mph.
That's not a tire weight issue.

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Unread 11-06-2013, 01:27 PM   #315
jeepjamesw1
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That's not a tire weight issue.
Yes, it is more a rolling resistance issue. But heavy unsprung weight can really affect many things for the worst.
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