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Unread 09-27-2013, 10:54 AM   #256
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
^^^ True Charley, those are all excellent tires. But.. he said he tows a horse trailer. And in the high desert sidewall strength is a major concern. So with that said, this is one time I would NOT recommend the Hankook ATM, Cooper AT3, or Hercules AT2. All of those tires have relatively weak sidewalls.

If he gets the Goodyear Duratrac, he needs to make sure it's a LT "E" version with the 3-ply sidewall. Otherwise, those also are well documented here to have lots of blowouts and sidewall cuts.

I still think the Cooper Discoverer STMaxx would be the perfect tire for his uses.
It was late. I was tired. I missed the F150 & towing parts. I was thinking 1/4 ton Jeeps & other 1/4 ton SUVs.

The F150 is a 1/2 ton truck, right? So I recommend load D.
C is intended for 1/2 ton trucks. Jeeps are 1/4 ton. C is nice overkill on a Jeep.

D is intended for 3/4 ton trucks. F150 is a 1/2 ton truck. D is nice overkill on an F150.

E is intended for 1 ton trucks. It'd be nice overkill on a 3/4 ton truck, but way to much on a 1/2 ton truck, IMO.
If you put an E on a 1/2 ton truck, it'd be tougher than needed IMO, even for towing with 1/2 ton truck, and would be more expensive to buy, ride miserably rough, and get much less gas mileage. However, I'm not an expert on high desert. So if you think he really needs load E, then maybe he does.
I recommend Cooper AT3, Hercules AT2, Hankook ATM, and Duratrac for his F150 truck, probably in D, but maybe in E.

There are lots of rave reviews on Internet and in magazines about Cooper AT3 & Hankook ATM being great for towing with 1/2, 3/4, & 1 ton trucks. The Hercules AT2 has same carcass has Cooper AT3. So I assume the Herc AT2 would be good for towing. I don't know anything about using Duratrac for towing.

Those Cooper ST Maxx tires are hella tough, but that's not much help if he slides off the Winter roads, which he probably would. Not enough sipes and to hard a rubber for Winter roads. Probably as snot slick on Winter roads as their predacessor, the Cooper ST (which I used to own). The Cooper ST was the slickest tire on Winter roads of any I've ever experienced. The Cooper ST Maxx shares the two fatal flaws of the ST for Winter roads. Hard rubber and few sipes. Also, the sipes are not oriented in the best direction for Winter traction. I think the ST Maxx would a terrible choice for Winter roads.

I respect you WXman, and I appreciate your participation in threads, especially this one, and you usually have lots of good info that I agree with, but we are going to have to partially disagree regarding the Cooper ST Maxx. I think it'd be hella tough and great for his other needs, but terrible for Winter.

===

Wxman, we are also going to have to disagree regarding Cooper AT3, Hercules AT2, and Hankook ATM for towing. I know the Cooper AT3 and Hankook ATM would be great for towing because so many truck websites and truck magazines reviews say they are great for towing. The Hercules AT2 has no reviews because very new model of tire, but I think it's probably good for towing since it shares same carcass and many other attributes with Cooper AT3.

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Unread 09-27-2013, 12:55 PM   #257
Charley3
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For weight of F150, I recommend an 11 to 11.5" wide tire for the wide variety of terrains and conditions he mentioned. That should also work well for towing, IMO.

A 10.5" wide would be good enough, if 11 to 11.5" wide is not available in a desired tire, size, and load rating.
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Unread 09-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #258
Griffonhunter
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Wxman and I communicated in PM too, and he also likes the AT3 as a possibility after hearing more about my use.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond.

Without getting new rims I'm looking at 265/70-17E in the AT3. I believe that's an 11 inch tire.
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Unread 09-28-2013, 06:11 PM   #259
WXman
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Yes, we will have to seriously disagree on the Cooper ST MAXX. It is siped AND pinned for studs. It's an AWESOME winter tire...in addition to being tough as nails. It will also wear better than a MT tire. It's pretty much the perfect tire. The only drawback is they are heavy and will use more fuel. That is the ONLY reason I went with the AT3. If I drove in the conditions she is going to be using her F-150 the ST MAXX would be a no-brainer for me.
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Unread 09-28-2013, 06:22 PM   #260
MountainMan864
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Has anyone added or seen or used the new Micky Thompson atz p3?
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Unread 09-28-2013, 06:30 PM   #261
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
Yes, we will have to seriously disagree on the Cooper ST MAXX. It is siped AND pinned for studs. It's an AWESOME winter tire...in addition to being tough as nails. It will also wear better than a MT tire. It's pretty much the perfect tire. The only drawback is they are heavy and will use more fuel. That is the ONLY reason I went with the AT3. If I drove in the conditions she is going to be using her F-150 the ST MAXX would be a no-brainer for me.
The ST I had (prior version to ST Maxx) was pinned for studs too. Without studs, it was terrible on Winter roads.

The ST & ST Maxx are both siped, but not enough sipes for Winter and sipes not oriented in best direction for traction. I realize I won't persuade you, but you won't persuade me either, until you buy some and try them on packed snow and ice. If you do that, and say it was good, I'll believe you. Until then, I'm going with my experience. I tried their predecessor, the ST, and I know it was slippery on Winter roads.

WXMan, after you slide off a Winter road with unstudded ST Maxx, please call me for a tow. I'll come pull you out of the ditch since we're buddies. Aha ha ha! Really, I'd be happy to help.

The Hankook ATM is probably a better choice for towing than Cooper AT3 because ATM has slightly tougher/stiffer sidewalls, according to Consumer Reports which reviewed them both. Also, many truck and 4x4 websites and magazines say the ATM is good for towing.

The AT3 is a good choice for her F150, but the ATM is probably a better choice (due to towing), but either is fine.
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Unread 09-28-2013, 06:48 PM   #262
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMan864 View Post
Has anyone added or seen or used the new Micky Thompson atz p3?
I'm not familiar with it.

Does anyone have knowledge of the ATZ P3?
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Unread 09-29-2013, 12:00 AM   #263
Charley3
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Thank you Wxman for mentioning the Cooper ST Maxx. Although I personally doubt it's good for Winter roads (without studs), and I'm sure it would ride rough (due to being super strong and tough), it is probably good at all else, especially towing.

This also describes the Cooper ST (previous version) that I had on an LJ Jeep Wrangler Unlimited.

The ST Maxx should be part of this thread (especially for towing) but it was overlooked and unmentioned, until you posted about it.

Though I think the reason it wasn't mentioned before is Jeeps are 1/4 ton vehicles. The ST Maxx is (IMO) a tire for 3/4 & 1 ton trucks, especially if they tow.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 11:41 AM   #264
Griffonhunter
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So it turns out that I have neighbors with Hancook and Maxx and a bunch with Mastercraft Coursers. I like the price of the AT3s but with the towing I do weekly I like the other two options. Just off the phone with the local tire shop and they sell a lot of the Hancook Dynapro ATMs around here and say they never see them back for repairs. They also like the ST Maxx but the price tag is a little higher. The price on the Hancook ATM is great too. Looks like I'd be able to get five in my budget.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 12:37 PM   #265
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Hankook supplies tires to Ford factories to be used on the F-150, although the AT they supply is a different tire. The ATM is a step up with better mud and snow traction. I enjoyed them on my 2011 JK and I came within a hair of putting them on my 4Runner instead of the Cooper AT3 last month. I think you'll be happy with them as long as you go LT "E". The "P" version of those tires is very thin at the sidewalls.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #266
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
Hankook supplies tires to Ford factories to be used on the F-150, although the AT they supply is a different tire. The ATM is a step up with better mud and snow traction. I enjoyed them on my 2011 JK and I came within a hair of putting them on my 4Runner instead of the Cooper AT3 last month. I think you'll be happy with them as long as you go LT "E". The "P" version of those tires is very thin at the sidewalls.
I agree with that ^, except I'm still skeptical about E for a 1/2 ton truck. C are made for 1/2 ton trucks (like F150). D are made for 3/4 ton trucks. E are made for 1 ton trucks.

So a D on a 1/2 ton truck (F150) should be plenty of over kill for towing and rugged terrain, IMO.

I suggest Griffonhunter consult her local tire store for help deciding between D or E.

===

On another note, the Hankook ATM have an exceptionally good snow & ice rating for an AT tire, according to Consumer Reports. The Cooper AT3 shares the same excellent snow rating, but is only rated OK on ice.

Several 4x4 mags have rated ATM excellent for sand and rocks.

The ATM is also reputed to be exceptionally round and well balanced, needing minimal weights to balance.

The ATM is also reviewed and reputed to be very good on highway.

I'm not sure of ATM's mud ability because no one has ever tested and reviewed it (AFAIK), but I assume it's at least OK for mud.

It meets everything she wants, except for unknown mud ability.

Wxman, have you ever tried ATM on mud?

===

I very nearly put Hankook ATM on my XJ. The only reason I went with Cooper AT3 is its excellent soft ride (I have a bad back), but Consumer Reports says the ATM rides almost as soft as AT3. So that means the ATM rides good (better than many other ATs), and the ATM is tougher than most ATs.

===

I think Hankook ATM would be an excellent choice for Griffonhunter's needs. It sounds like Wxman and I agree on that.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 06:10 PM   #267
WXman
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It is generally true that LT E is made for a ton pickup truck. But... she's driving a F-150 which weighs 5,500 lbs. and she tows a horse trailer. The LT E will ride great and will be much better suited for her. LT C is too light and has less capacity than P so neither of those are good choices. She needs a D or E tire, period. Today's E tires are lighter in weight than they used to be. I wouldn't put them on a Jeep but I would definitely go with them for a full size truck, whether it be 1500 or 3500.

I did have decent luck in the mud with the ATM. It's not a mudder...no AT tire is. But it holds it's own. And the rain/snow traction is fatastic. They are very easy to balance and have rim protection flanges. They are honestly one of the best ATs on the market. I got the AT3 from Cooper because I wanted to try something new, and because they are made in the good ol' USA.
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'11 Mango Tango JKU Sport - Mods
'12 Dozer JKU Sport S - 6-speed - ACE rock rails - Max Tow package - Daystar spacers - 33x12.50 Duratracs
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Unread 09-30-2013, 07:00 PM   #268
Charley3
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Wxman, you are in a unique situation where you have owned Hankook ATM and now own Cooper AT3.

How does their mud performance compare? No one on the Interweb has ever reviewed the ATM for mud (AFAIK), and no one (except Consumer Reports) has reviewed and compared both tires. The CR reviews were on road reviews, and they were very thorough at that, but no one has ever compared these two tires off road.

If you've had your Cooper AT3 long enough to have had them in all conditions on & off road, please do a comparison-contrast review of ATM versus AT3.

Your review might determine which I buy next time.
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Unread 10-01-2013, 08:00 AM   #269
WXman
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Well, honestly I will probably do the Hankook ATM in 255/75-17 from now on. Reason being is they are taller than my AT3s which run very short to my surprise. I don't like that. So I'll probably stick with the ATMs next time around. The ATMs fill up with mud a little faster because the tread is a little more interlocked...but they will hold their own if you spin them fast enough. I'd say compared to the dozens of other tires I've used, they are very average compared to the competition.

Both are excellent tires. The AT3 has a slightly better tread pattern for mud/snow. But the ATM is better at everything else. Better construction, easier to balance, protection for wheel flanges, better looking sidewall, etc.

If you could take the AT3 tread pattern and put it on the ATM tire...you'd have the #1 AT tire ever made hands down.
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'92 YJ - heavily modded
'96 ZJ - heavily modded
'05 KJ CRD Limited - 370 lb./ft. from a 4-cylinder and trail ready. Pure awesomeness.
'11 Mango Tango JKU Sport - Mods
'12 Dozer JKU Sport S - 6-speed - ACE rock rails - Max Tow package - Daystar spacers - 33x12.50 Duratracs
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Unread 10-01-2013, 01:13 PM   #270
Charley3
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Huh, well my top priority is ride quality. Cooper AT3 rides softer than Hankook ATM, but the ATM reputedly rides fairly well.

My next priorities are not-hydroplaning on Interstate (rain forest climate), then snow, ice, mud.

So the AT3 wins for most of my needs, but the Hankook wins for ice. Overall, either tire would be good for me.

A taller 30 x 9.5 R15 or 245/75R16C would be appreciated though. In 30 the Hankook spec sheet says it's 0.2" taller than AT3, which is not significant, IMO. In 245 their spec sheets list them as exactly same height. Can their spec sheets be believed? How accurate are their stated heights?

In size 255/75R17 you say ATM is noticeably taller than AT3. How do stated heights compare on their spec sheets? Just curious.
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