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Unread 09-13-2013, 06:11 AM   #211
WXman
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Yeah the balancing thing is my only true complaint about them. It's ridiculous when a 40 lbs. P-metric tire takes 5 or more ounces to balance and then you still get vibrations at 65 MPH. I can tell right now this is going to be a battle. If the shop can't get me rolling smooth soon that's going to put a damper on my experience with these tires.

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Unread 09-13-2013, 11:45 AM   #212
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
Yeah the balancing thing is my only true complaint about them. It's ridiculous when a 40 lbs. P-metric tire takes 5 or more ounces to balance and then you still get vibrations at 65 MPH. I can tell right now this is going to be a battle. If the shop can't get me rolling smooth soon that's going to put a damper on my experience with these tires.
My AT3 30s took more weights than I'd like, but they do ride totally smooth.

I told the tire store that I'm picky, want them balanced to zero, and would return and have them rebalanced if any vibrations at 75 mph.

They got it perfect the 1st time.

Same with prior set tires.

Before that on earlier tires they needed 3 tries to get them zeroed. That was because at that time they didn't know me yet.

Most tire store guys are lazy at balancing tires. Some of them might really be trying hard, but just no talent for it.

There is no substitute for a competant person who is motivated not to see me again. i.e. - doesn't want me coming back for a rebalance. But motivation only helps when they have the ability to do a good job.
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Unread 09-14-2013, 04:58 PM   #213
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I picked up a set of toyo at2s in 235/75r15 yesterday. Too early to tell how they'll do everywhere. First inpressions are tgat theyre pretty quiet on the highway. There's a noticeable hum between 40-50 mph that goes away as speed increases. Nothing a jeeper would probably care about. Ride quality is good. They're at 34 lbs now which is probably high but I haven't had time to chalk and they don't feel overly stiff. I do also run the toyo m55s in my old f150 (when its running) so I may be a bit biased, but they seem slightly softer than the nokians they replaced. Got a bit of rub at full lock with the mud flap but not really enough to bother with. They handle quite well I think, sure footed and stable on my stock height xj. I had them road force balanced and they seem really smooth. Overall very happy so far but I'll report back as the miles add up. First time off the pavement will be in a couple of weeks and I'm anxious to see how they do
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Unread 09-16-2013, 05:59 PM   #214
Mtnduey
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Debating several options set before me as it looks like no matter which tire I go with I'll end up needing to get 16" rims finally, to put it simply I just do not like the tires available in the 15" rim variety currently.

Presently I'm running 31x10.50 Duratracs on my 05 LJ and I wont be buying those again, many reasons that add up to it's simply time for a different tire.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Toyo Open Country A/T II but I'm not sure which size. I'm using the OME ZJ Heavy Front/LJ Rear spring combo and have plenty of clearance for 33's so I'm not worried there. My big concern is what effect does adding a bunch of weight at each corner have to the overall performance of the Jeep. The avg weight of a 31" tire is between 40-43 lbs, if I were to go with the tires I'd like to have with the Toyo's I'd be looking at 64lbs for the 295-75-16 so it'd be quite a bit heavier, and load E on top of that, but it would have a 3 ply sidewall and 10 ply overall construction so it'd be strong at least, but man at 64lbs it better be strong, yeesh.

I suppose I could go with one of the non-Extreme tires but in order to drop into the C load range I'd have to go all the way down to 265-75-16's and it would be 19lbs less per tire as well.

Again, just not sure what sort of impact tire weight has on things like gas mileage, breaking, etc...

Charley3, any thoughts on this?
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Unread 09-16-2013, 06:09 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnduey View Post
Debating several options set before me as it looks like no matter which tire I go with I'll end up needing to get 16" rims finally, to put it simply I just do not like the tires available in the 15" rim variety currently.

Presently I'm running 31x10.50 Duratracs on my 05 LJ and I wont be buying those again, many reasons that add up to it's simply time for a different tire.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Toyo Open Country A/T II but I'm not sure which size. I'm using the OME ZJ Heavy Front/LJ Rear spring combo and have plenty of clearance for 33's so I'm not worried there. My big concern is what effect does adding a bunch of weight at each corner have to the overall performance of the Jeep. The avg weight of a 31" tire is between 40-43 lbs, if I were to go with the tires I'd like to have with the Toyo's I'd be looking at 64lbs for the 295-75-16 so it'd be quite a bit heavier, and load E on top of that, but it would have a 3 ply sidewall and 10 ply overall construction so it'd be strong at least, but man at 64lbs it better be strong, yeesh.

I suppose I could go with one of the non-Extreme tires but in order to drop into the C load range I'd have to go all the way down to 265-75-16's and it would be 19lbs less per tire as well.

Again, just not sure what sort of impact tire weight has on things like gas mileage, breaking, etc...

Charley3, any thoughts on this?


This is THE reason I won't run 16" wheels ever again. All of the larger sizes are load range D and E for heavy duty pickups, since these pickups were commonly sold with 16" wheels in the past.

The weight will no doubt destroy your fuel economy, braking, and performance. Expect about a 2 MPG hit with those tires.

Better option is to keep your 15s. Tires are cheaper, lighter in weight, and will ride better. If you must go up, go on up to 17" wheels so you can at least have some "P" rated options for tires.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #216
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WXman what size and which tire are you running currently?
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Unread 09-16-2013, 07:16 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by WXman View Post
This is THE reason I won't run 16" wheels ever again. All of the larger sizes are load range D and E for heavy duty pickups, since these pickups were commonly sold with 16" wheels in the past.

The weight will no doubt destroy your fuel economy, braking, and performance. Expect about a 2 MPG hit with those tires.

Better option is to keep your 15s. Tires are cheaper, lighter in weight, and will ride better. If you must go up, go on up to 17" wheels so you can at least have some "P" rated options for tires.
Load D & E also ruin ride quality. They ride rough, which IMO turns a joy ride into a misery.

Plus the things WXman said.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #218
Mtnduey
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Crap I didn't even think about ride quality, thats a huge reason behind the suspension setup I have.

Man, load C 32-33" size in metric or otherwise, not as many options as I'd like

BAH!
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Unread 09-16-2013, 09:44 PM   #219
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997xj View Post
I picked up a set of toyo at2s in 235/75r15 yesterday. Too early to tell how they'll do everywhere. First inpressions are tgat theyre pretty quiet on the highway. There's a noticeable hum between 40-50 mph that goes away as speed increases. Nothing a jeeper would probably care about. Ride quality is good. They're at 34 lbs now which is probably high but I haven't had time to chalk and they don't feel overly stiff. I do also run the toyo m55s in my old f150 (when its running) so I may be a bit biased, but they seem slightly softer than the nokians they replaced. Got a bit of rub at full lock with the mud flap but not really enough to bother with. They handle quite well I think, sure footed and stable on my stock height xj. I had them road force balanced and they seem really smooth. Overall very happy so far but I'll report back as the miles add up. First time off the pavement will be in a couple of weeks and I'm anxious to see how they do
I had 12 years experience using 235/75R15 load C ATs on a stock 96 XJ. I know that setup well.

If your XJ is near stock weight, the fronts need 30 to 32 psi.

30 or 32, either will give a good contact patch.

You can use 30 psi front for best ride on road and that also works well on Winter roads and for casual off road, fire roads, logging roads, etc. The beauty of 30 psi is you don't need to air down for casual wheeling or casual Winter conditions. So very convenient and good ride quality.

You can use 32 psi for best gas mileage, but it will ride slightly rough IMO, and you'll need to air down a little for even minor challenges.

===

For the rear, 27 or 29 psi (if less than 100 lbs cargo in rear)

Same explanation as above for 27 vs 29 psi.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 10:14 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnduey View Post
Crap I didn't even think about ride quality, thats a huge reason behind the suspension setup I have.

Man, load C 32-33" size in metric or otherwise, not as many options as I'd like

BAH!
There are some great 32 x 10.5 R16 options in P & C.

i.e. - there are some great brands of 265/75R16 load P & C tires.

Here are some I like:

Cooper AT3 (load C)

Hercules AT2 (load C)

Duratrac (load C)

Mastercraft Courser CT (load C)
However, this is a really heavy duty load C that has stiff sidewalls for a load C. So it rides a bit rougher than the tires I mentioned previously.

Toyo AT2 (P)

Hankook ATM (P)


There might be other brands offering 265/75R16 P and/or C. I mentioned the ones I'm aware of, which also happen to be tires I like. I'm sure there are more brands offering all season tires. There might be more brands offering all terrain tires too.

All brands offer 265/75R16 in D and/or E. Recently a few brands also started offering them in P and/or C.

I prefer load C because deeper tread than P and arguably tougher than P, and C are lighter and ride better than D or E.

There are good 245/75R16C and 265/75R16C tires if you look for them. Browse tire sizes and specs at each manufacturers' website to find them.

There are also some 255/75R17C tires. That's a true 32" tall x 10 wide. Though I don't recommend 17" wheels (to heavy IMO).

It's no longer necessary to use R15 tires to get P or C at 31 or 32" tall.

Some tire manufacturers have started to address the fact that many small SUV owners have 16" wheels and want to use 31 or 32" tires and need P or load C.

It's possible there might be other new R16 sizes in P or load C that I didn't mention (and don't know about).

I recently bought 16x7 stock Icon wheels so I can (in future) run a 245/75R16C tire.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 10:40 PM   #221
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
This is THE reason I won't run 16" wheels ever again. All of the larger sizes are load range D and E for heavy duty pickups, since these pickups were commonly sold with 16" wheels in the past.

The weight will no doubt destroy your fuel economy, braking, and performance. Expect about a 2 MPG hit with those tires.

Better option is to keep your 15s. Tires are cheaper, lighter in weight, and will ride better. If you must go up, go on up to 17" wheels so you can at least have some "P" rated options for tires.
Earlier I said I agree with you. I need to revise that. I agree with you at sizes 33 and taller, but not at 31 or 32.

Several years ago your advice on this topic was totally correct.

However, in very recent years we now have some excellent all season and all terrain R16 P & C options in 31 & 32" tall.

245/75R16 (31 x 10.5 R16) are now available in P and/or C from several manufacturers.

265/75R16 (32 x 10.5 R16) are now available in P and/or C from several manufacturers.

In 33" and taller there are still no good R16 load C options (yet), but that may change within next few years as tire manufacturers' product lines evolve to better meet needs of small SUVs with 16" wheels.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 06:12 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Earlier I said I agree with you. I need to revise that.

Several years ago your advice on this topic was totally correct.

However, in very recent years we now have some excellent all season and all terrain R16 P & C options in 31 & 32" tall.

245/75R16 (31 x 10.5 R16) are now available in P and/or C from several manufacturers.

265/75R16 (32 x 10.5 R16) are now available in P and/or C from several manufacturers.

In 33" and taller there are still no good R16 load C options (yet), but that may change within next few years as tire manufacturers' product lines evolve to better meet needs of small SUVs with 16" wheels.

So... basically you do agree with me then. Because I said "the larger sizes" are all D and E, which they are.

If you're sticking to stock sizes which is your 245s and 265s then of course you've got some P options.

For the guy who asked... I'm running 265/70-17 on my 4Runner. 33x12.50-15 standard on the JKs.
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'05 KJ CRD Limited - 370 lb./ft. from a 4-cylinder and trail ready. Pure awesomeness.
'11 Mango Tango JKU Sport - Mods
'12 Dozer JKU Sport S - 6-speed - ACE rock rails - Max Tow package - Daystar spacers - 33x12.50 Duratracs
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Unread 09-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #223
1997xj
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@ charley - seems like 31 psi for the fronts is the way to go ;-)
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Unread 09-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #224
Charley3
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Originally Posted by WXman View Post
So... basically you do agree with me then. Because I said "the larger sizes" are all D and E, which they are.

If you're sticking to stock sizes which is your 245s and 265s then of course you've got some P options.

For the guy who asked... I'm running 265/70-17 on my 4Runner. 33x12.50-15 standard on the JKs.
I do agree with you about R16 at 33" and taller.They are all D or E, but then I realized he had asked about 32 and 33. At 32 he does have some good R16 choices in P & C.

"Stock sizes" is a subjective-relative term.

From my XJ perspective 31 & 32 are large sizes.

From my TJ/LJ perspective 31 & 32 are large than stock.

From a Grand Cherokee perspective 31 & 32 are large sizes.

What size does a stock non-Rubi JK come with? Isn't it smaller than 32?

So from my point of view 31 & 32 are larger than stock. The fellow who asked has an LJ. So for him 31 & especially 32 are larger than stock, and 32 is one of the sizes he asked about.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 10:56 AM   #225
Charley3
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Originally Posted by 1997xj View Post
@ charley - seems like 31 psi for the fronts is the way to go ;-)
I like tires that are good for DD, gas mileage, and off road. I'm always looking for well rounded, all purpose solutions that work for everything.

i.e. - I don't look for hard core solutions. I like practical solutions for everyday use on and off road.

===

If we're talking XJ or ZJ...

I think 30 x 9.5 R15C are the way to go if you have 0 to 2" lift and stock gearing.

I think 245/75R16C (31 x 9.5 R16C) are the way to go if you have 2 to 3" lift and you regear.

I don't like 31 x 10.5 R15C on XJ because they stick out to much (IMO), are harder to fit (tend to rub during turns with stock wheels), and I prefer the contact pressure of a 9.5" wide tire. However, there are many people who like 31 x 10.5 R15 on XJs. If you do run these, I recommend using a 15 x 8 stock TJ wheel (like Canyon, Ravine, etc).

===

If you're talking TJ...

I like 31 x 10.5 R15C, 245/75R16C (31 x 9.5 R16C), and 265/75R16C (32 x 10.5 R16C)

If you're talking LJ (heavier)...

I like 31 x 10.5 R15C and 265/75R16C (32 x 10.5 R16C)

If your talking JK...

I like 265/75R16C (32 x 10.5 R16C)
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