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Unread 08-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #1
mschi772
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This MT Tread Pattern is Everywhere: Discuss

As I've learned more and more about tires over the years, I've noticed patterns. One of the most obvious patterns is among a certain niche of MT tire. There are variations, but unlike other niches, this pattern is especially consistent and common to many manufacturers. Lining them all up as I've done below helps to pick-out their differences much better (I could divide these up into three sub-categories really), but I still see the same basic theme at work, and it makes me curious. They all have four rows with the two middle rows consisting of angled blocks. Food for thought.

There is more to a tire than tread pattern--a lot more. Tread compound, load rating, sidewall strength, weight, etc can all vary and really make or break a tire. Even within the overall tread pattern, small variations like block spacing/shape and siping can have larger effects.

Below is a list of tires I can think of that all share this particular tread "DNA."

Why is this pattern so pervasive? Is it a patent thing that everyone can use? Is it convergent evolution of sorts that everyone has found on their own that this pattern is superior to all others in its own way? Is it simply traditional?

What differentiates these tires? Which are better? Which are worse?

I would LOVE to perform controlled testing/comparison of these tires to each other to determine somewhat definitively who's making the most of this pattern, and who isn't--which are the best/worst.


Toyo Open Country MT


Cooper Discoverer STT


Atturo Trail Blade MT


Nankang FT9 MT


Pro Comp MT


Treadwright Claw


Mickey Thompson MTZ


Nokian Vatiiva MT


Nexen Rodian MT


Firestone Destination MT


Mastercraft Courser MT


Dunlop Mud Rover


Nankang Mudstar


Nitto Trail Grappler MT


Maxxis Buckshot


Maxxis Bighorn


BFG MT TA KM


General Grabber MT


Kanati Mud Hog



(Bridgestone Dueler MT) A bit different and more similar to Treadwright Guard Dogs or original Goodyear MTR--another suspiciously similar pattern...


(Federal Couragia MT)


(Goodyear MTR)


(Treadwright Guard Dog)


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Unread 08-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #2
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How is the MTZ not on there? It's nearly identical to the Cooper.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjones26573 View Post
How is the MTZ not on there? It's nearly identical to the Cooper.
Eh, while I can see what you see, I feel like the more horizontal center blocks (as opposed to the more diagonally oriented blocks above) makes them different enough to have not included them. The center blocks of the MTZ appear to my eye to overlap from one side to the other more as well, but I'll add a picture for everyone to reference anyway should others want to decide for themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sjones26573 View Post
I see several horizontal patterns. Hell the Guard Dog is more horizontal than the MTZ.
Yeah, once I hit the Bridgestones in my list, you should have seen me remark that they and the following ones are a bit more dissimilar from the "STT family" and more similar to each other in their own way. You must have missed that. I tweaked the formatting a little to make it more obvious that I'm aware of their difference.

EDIT: The more I look at them (MTZs) next to the others, the more I see the similarities. Thanks for poking me about them.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #4
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I see several horizontal patterns. Hell the Guard Dog is more horizontal than the MTZ.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:46 PM   #5
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Most of those are made by the same parent company,just different name brands on the sidewall.Can't count the treadwrights as they are re-treads which are a direct copy of another company's tread designs(guard dog and old style MT/R's).


Oh and the old style MT/R's are not MT tires,not what the "MT" stands for.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 09:30 PM   #6
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Sure I see a similarity but there's a lot more to a tire than tread style.

Rubber attributes (i.e. durometer, rebound speed, what components go into it)
Casing construction
Siping/grooving
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Unread 08-24-2013, 05:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler905 View Post
Sure I see a similarity but there's a lot more to a tire than tread style.

Rubber attributes (i.e. durometer, rebound speed, what components go into it)
Casing construction
Siping/grooving
Thanks for reading my post. (Had you actually read my post, you'd have seen that I already said this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Most of those are made by the same parent company,just different name brands on the sidewall.Can't count the treadwrights as they are re-treads which are a direct copy of another company's tread designs(guard dog and old style MT/R's).

Oh and the old style MT/R's are not MT tires,not what the "MT" stands for.
Just because a company may provide manufacturing facilities/services for another company doesn't mean they're a parent company. Some of my list are subsidiaries, but if you look into it, you'll find most of these companies stand alone at least as far as design goes if not all the way through manufacturing as well.

Nitto (Toyo), Mickey Thompson (Cooper), Mastercraft (Cooper), Firestone (Bridgestone) and Dunlop (Goodyear) are the only subsidiaries on this list whose parents ALSO appear on this list. Kanati is owned by GBC Motorsports, but there are no comparable Greenball tires. The rest of the list are either parent or independent companies. Despite ownership, you can see how the subsidiaries' designs tend not to be identical to their parents'; they are not just the same tread on a different sidewall. Treadwright's Guard Dog may simply be them buying the old MTR design off of GY, but it is slightly different; nonetheless, Treadwright does also create their own designs, and the Claw is one of them.

MT/Rs are still classified as MT tires. They're not highway tires; they're not touring tires; they're not street performance tires; they're not winter/snow tires; they're not AT tires; they are MT tires.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 09:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Thanks for reading my post. (Had you actually read my post, you'd have seen that I already said this.)
Oh, I read it. I thought it was worth mentioning again.

Skipping those differences between tires is akin to saying "These tires are all the same - round and black. What gives?"
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Unread 08-24-2013, 10:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler905 View Post
Oh, I read it. I thought it was worth mentioning again.

Skipping those differences between tires is akin to saying "These tires are all the same - round and black. What gives?"
No, it's more akin to saying, "Of all the tread patterns that are in use or ever have been in use, this style has been around a long time and is very common. What gives?"

Ugh, lately people seem to be more interested in winning arguments, being right, and one-upping each other than just having a discussion. Especially in a tire forum, virtually everything worth knowing is known already. 90% of what goes on around here is people asking the same questions that have been asked hundreds of times before. I figured I'd just open a topic up with some questions that aren't so common for a little dialog for anyone interested in chewing on an idea or two. This isn't a perfect thread, but at least it's different and [I thought] leaves plenty of room for discussion. I guess I was foolish since it's beginning to look like it'll just be scoffs and criticisms. I'll make sure that the next time I make a thread it'll be to ask how big a tire I can fit under a stock TJ .
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Unread 08-24-2013, 10:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I'll make sure that the next time I make a thread it'll be to ask how big a tire I can fit under a stock TJ .
C'mon now - if you wanted a lot of response, dig into the forum classics and pose a question such as "Rubi 44 front vs. HP30" or the always repetitive "Why shouldn't I upgrade my D35?"

Why is this general tread pattern a go-to for tire manufacturers?

It's recognizable. People don't always "get" different and are hesitant to buy what they don't know.

It's a reasonably well performing design. Wide side paddles are good in the mud. Comma shaped centre blocks mechanically grip all kinds of shapes of surface debris. A lack of circumferential grooves mean the tire is less likely to follow cracks along the road surface, and runs quiet. Fairly large tread blocks can be grooved or siped without chunking or feathering.

Most important, if you're looking at selling a lot of tires is that the side lugs make for a good looking side profile. Given the number of 4x4s that never leave pavement, the tire's looks are probably more important than how they perform at a corporate decision making level.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #11
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I like this thread. Very interesting. Just like gasoline, it all comes out of the same tanks, but it's the additives that change. I read where cooper bought the tread design from toyo...they look almost identical in tread pattern, but if you compare the same size cooper with a toyo, the toyos weigh significantly more. It's not just the tread that makes a tire, but the similarity is astonishing. However, in today's economy cooperative ventures are less costly than designing your own tires. My guess is some company owns this design and has licensed others to use the design. Good thread!
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Unread 08-24-2013, 12:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Treadwright does also create their own designs, and the Claw is one of them.
LOL, no. Treadwright took the design for the Claw off from the BFG KM. Just like they used the design of the Goodyear MTR for the Guard Dog.

And I wish people would stop with the MT = Mud Terrain sillyness.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #13
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Unfortunately, I too have been paying close attention as of late after destroying the sidewall on one of my Procomp Xtreme MTs.
They do not make them anymore, but have the new Xtreme MT2. I was told they were almost the same, so of coarse I looked pretty close when I installed the new tire.

The only difference you can see is that it now has a small step-up/ridge on the treads. Also, every other tread is now scalloped so that the outside edges alternate in width. In-out-in-out, if that makes any sense. The originals have the tread ending at the same spot all around the whole edge of the tire.
It must make a difference for the better, or they would not of changed them.

So naturally I started looking at all my buddies tires to see if they have the same alternating edge feature. Most all do. Achieved by either a scallop every other tread, or the tread itself, or a combination of both. MTR/K's, Intercos, Toyos, and even the Maxxis Bighorn I use for a spare.

Just something I found interesting.

Here's the new Procomp Xtreme MT2 on the rear of my Jeep.


You can kind of see the step up tread design in the center treads of the new rear tire.


With the original Xtreme MT on the front


And the Maxxis Bighorn on the spare. You can see the alternating scallops.


I'll run the MT2 and hope my OCD does not make me buy another one.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteOut View Post
LOL, no. Treadwright took the design for the Claw off from the BFG KM. Just like they used the design of the Goodyear MTR for the Guard Dog.

And I wish people would stop with the MT = Mud Terrain sillyness.
I may be wrong, but my understanding of tire categories is that MT = Maximum Traction (as opposed to AT = All Terrain).

I took more than just a passing glance at the Claw, and you're right. A friend of mine had purchased Claws awhile back, and they didn't look like this; I was told they were an original design. Now, maybe those weren't actually Claws, and/or I was told wrong regarding their originality, or maybe they've simply changed the Claw since then. Nonetheless, the Claws I currently have pictured to appear to be KM1s.


Nice catch on the subtle change in your tires, Dave. Perhaps it aids mud clearing? That's my initial thought anyway, but it could be anything I suppose.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 03:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler905 View Post
Oh, I read it. I thought it was worth mentioning again.

Skipping those differences between tires is akin to saying "These tires are all the same - round and black. What gives?"

You'll have to excuse mschi772, he doesn't like people participating in a discussion when he is trying to lecture the forum. You have to understand that he is smarter than everyone else and there is nothing you or anybody else has to add that is on his level.

Just tell him how smart he is and that you'll never be on a level high enough to participate in his threads.
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