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Unread 10-14-2010, 10:54 PM   #16
Texas ZJ1
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No my friend. Maxxis buckshot mudders are NO WAY IN THE WORLD the same tire. The tread depth on the maxxis is like half that of the older Buckshot mudders.


Hunter

Original tread pattern of the Gateway Buckshot mudder.



Maxxis Buckshot mudder.



No where near that same.

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Unread 10-15-2010, 08:09 PM   #17
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I like the Gateway Buckshots Mudders that are size 9 X 16 which in modern tire size lingo is (I think) approx a 35.5 X 9.5 on a 6" wide wheel, or 35 X 10 on a 7" wide wheel.

There are also size Q78 which (in modern tire size lingo) is approx 35.5 X 11.8 (R15 or R16) on a 7" wide wheel, or 35 X 11.5 (R15 or R16) on an 8" wide wheel.
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Unread 10-15-2010, 08:20 PM   #18
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P.S. - allegedly (I read on Internet), the 9 X 16 (35.5 X 9.5) and Q78 (35.5 X 10.8) sizes of Gateway Buckshot Mudders can still be purchased from a farmers coop in the Southeastern States. I've been meaning to call them to find out if they are still available. They might also be available in other sizes too.

The Coop name for them is "Grip Spur". The Grip Spur has a harder rubber compound than the Gateway Buckshot Mudders had because the farmers want to drive their trucks on highway and have them last, but the narly deep tread still make them great on dirt and mud.

The Grip Spur is same tire, except with harder rubber for longer life on farm trucks that see as much highway (going to market stuff) as they do field/mud work. Also, the Grip spurs inner rows of tread are continuous, lacking the grooving or breaks in the tread seen in the Gateway Buckshot Mudder. A hand groover job could add grooves if you want them (I would), and I'd consider getting them siped too.

There is ongoing demand for them among classic 4x4 owners of classic Dodge Power Wagons, Jeeps, Toyota FJs, International 4x4s, etc. These are the classic old-school bad-@ss tires that were popular back in the day.
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Unread 10-17-2010, 08:38 AM   #19
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CB3, i ran those Co-op Grip Spurs on my 72 Scout II. They were great.

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Unread 10-21-2010, 05:29 AM   #20
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CB3 I have a set on my GMC right now. I am running the L78-15 size. I got them at the Orange/Madison Farm Co-Op in Madison VA. Bought them back in June. Great tires. They had one more full set of my size, and at least 2, maybe 3 sets in 7.00-15 stacked up in the back room.(great size for a stocker with skinny rims)

Mud? KILLER.
Gravel? OK.
Clay? BAD ***.
Sand? Don't know.
Slickrock/crawling? Works for me!
Rain? No Problem.
Snow? No clue yet.
Road? Thumps with flat spots when cold, twitchy if not at full PSI....but it is a 40+ year old bias ply design. If they make more, I will put them on a jeep. The side walls are just about bullet proof, but the tread compound is no where near as hard as some would have you believe. Keep them aired up at about 40psi on the road and rotated with oil changes and I'd bet on 30k miles no problem.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #21
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Are those Grip Spur still being made? I heard they were made by Denman for the Farmers Coop, and Denman is (everyone knows) out of business.

So if those tires are still available, they might be the last ones ever.

BTW - Michelin still makes these same sizes of tall skinny sizes, like the 7-15 and 9-16 (in old school size terms) that is a 35.5 X 9.8 (in modern flotation size terminology), and they are still popular with many nations' militarys around the world.

However, the problem with using a Micheline on a Jeep is that they are load E, have very hard rubber, and very large tread blocks with no sipes. They are made for 1+ ton trucks and are NOT appropriate for a Jeep, due to lack of flex and very little traction on wet pavement or winter roads.

Those Grip Spurs, and even more so the Gateway Buckshot Mudders, are more appropriate for Jeeps since they are available in load C and D (and E) depending on size. The Gateway Buckshot also had softer rubber which was (I've heard) great on Jeeps. The Grip Spur has (allegedly) harder rubber than a Gateway Buckshot, but a lot softer than Michelin.

On the upside, the Grip Spurs are designed specifically to be a farmer's daily driver tire. i.e. - to be fantastic in mud and good enough on road for highway trips to market. i.e. - a narley daily driver tire. If I bought a Grip Spur, I'd want to add sipes to it because I live in the North and sipes are needed for winter roads, and help on wet roads.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 12:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davetopay View Post
CB3 I have a set on my GMC right now. I am running the L78-15 size. I got them at the Orange/Madison Farm Co-Op in Madison VA. Bought them back in June. Great tires. They had one more full set of my size, and at least 2, maybe 3 sets in 7.00-15 stacked up in the back room.(great size for a stocker with skinny rims)

Mud? KILLER.
Gravel? OK.
Clay? BAD ***.
Sand? Don't know.
Slickrock/crawling? Works for me!
Rain? No Problem.
Snow? No clue yet.
Road? Thumps with flat spots when cold, twitchy if not at full PSI....but it is a 40+ year old bias ply design. If they make more, I will put them on a jeep. The side walls are just about bullet proof, but the tread compound is no where near as hard as some would have you believe. Keep them aired up at about 40psi on the road and rotated with oil changes and I'd bet on 30k miles no problem.
What size (in modern flotation size terms, aka inch measurements) is a L78-15?

If I got some, I'd want 9 X 16 (35" to 35.5 X 9" to 9.8 R16) or some equivalent in R15. R15 would be ideal. Anyone have any size recommendations have give similar measurements? I'd also consider Q78-15 (35" to 35.5 X 10.8" to 11.3 R15)

Do you meant they are bad in clay, or excellent in clay? Please translate into proper English. I'm not being disrespectful. I sometimes get confused by slang, especially when it has asterisks in it.

How loud are they on highway?

How fast can they be driven on highway with satisfactory results? I need to cruise at 65 mph, but don't need to drive faster.

How well do they flex? A groover would help that BTW. With a groover you could make the Grip Spur center treads grooved like the Gateway Buckshot Mudder. Personally, I'd grove and sipe them since I live in the North. If I live in the South, I'd just groove them.

How is the ride quality? Soft enough on bumps, or harsh?

How much do the morning flat spots bump the truck?
A little bumping and barely notice, or severe bumping that shakes the whole truck?

What size GMC vehicle do you have them on? 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton? What tire load rating? C, D, or E?
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Unread 10-25-2010, 06:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
What size (in modern flotation size terms, aka inch measurements) is a L78-15?

If I got some, I'd want 9 X 16 (35" to 35.5 X 9" to 9.8 R16) or some equivalent in R15. R15 would be ideal. Anyone have any size recommendations have give similar measurements? I'd also consider Q78-15 (35" to 35.5 X 10.8" to 11.3 R15)

Do you meant they are bad in clay, or excellent in clay? Please translate into proper English. I'm not being disrespectful. I sometimes get confused by slang, especially when it has asterisks in it.

How loud are they on highway?

How fast can they be driven on highway with satisfactory results? I need to cruise at 65 mph, but don't need to drive faster.

How well do they flex? A groover would help that BTW. With a groover you could make the Grip Spur center treads grooved like the Gateway Buckshot Mudder. Personally, I'd grove and sipe them since I live in the North. If I live in the South, I'd just groove them.

How is the ride quality? Soft enough on bumps, or harsh?

How much do the morning flat spots bump the truck?
A little bumping and barely notice, or severe bumping that shakes the whole truck?

What size GMC vehicle do you have them on? 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton? What tire load rating? C, D, or E?
Sorry...

L78-15 in my case worked out to about a 31x9.5 or 10 when mounted on a 15x8 Blazer rim from the 80's. go with a narrower rim and they will get a bit taller. 7.00-15 looked to be a similar height, but more suited to an old 15x6 rim size, perfect cj5 tire if you don't want to jack it up.

They are excellent in nasty, sticky, gummy VA red clay. If they start to pack in, just blip the throttle and they clean out in a hurry.

Loudness is really subjective. They are not silent by any means, but at 40psi on my 4500# truck they are totally livable even with the windows down. Drop the psi and they get a tiny bit louder.

High speed(relatively speaking) hasn't been an issue as long as they are aired up. I routinely cruise at 65-70 mph comfortably.

Ride quality is quite nice. In fact it surprised me how much better my truck rode with these than the BFG AT's it had on it before.

Handling is OK, you need to be aware of how bias ply tires feel and the flex they impart to the side walls. I can comment on how they will do in a panic situation with a very short vehicle as my truck is a long bed, and wheel base helps with stability.

Flex when aired down is pretty good as I have C load tires(2500# per wheel). You might not think they are flexing a bunch because when you air down a bias tire you don't get the huge sidewall bulge like a radial, but they will grab onto rocks and roots and pull like nobody's business.

The morning flat spots only seem to last about a mile or two. Not sure how it would be perceived on other trucks, but it thumps mine like crazy for a minute or two. But then again, a 40 year old pickup on solid axles and leaf springs at both ends, with no sound deadening, and eleventy-billion rattles makes expansion joints in the highway seem major.

Basically, don't expect them to be as daily driver friendly as a BFG AT or other modern tire. Expect them to work like a beast at getting you in and out of the wilderness, and respect the slightly soft handling manners and you will be fine.
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Unread 10-25-2010, 06:39 AM   #24
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If you want something really aggressive with old school style check out Specialty Tires of America, or Universal Tire in PA.

STA is the merger of McCreary and Dennman.
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Unread 10-25-2010, 10:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davetopay View Post
L78-15 in my case worked out to about a 31x9.5 or 10 when mounted on a 15x8 Blazer rim from the 80's. go with a narrower rim and they will get a bit taller. 7.00-15 looked to be a similar height, but more suited to an old 15x6 rim size, perfect cj5 tire if you don't want to jack it up.
A Q78 is a totally different size than an L78. The Q78 is a butt kicking 35.5 X 10.8 R15 or R16 load C or D tire size originally made as a "wide flotation" tire for Dodge Power Wagons to replace the 35.5 X 9 R16 tires they originally ran. Wow! Those must have been some cool SUVs/trucks. They came stock with 35.5" tall tires! But the PW were as heavy as a moder Chevy Suburban. So they sank to much with 35.5 X 9 tires. The Q78 was the orginal flotation tire at 35.5 X 10.8. At that time a 10 to 11" wide tire was considered a very wide flotation tire.

A 10.5 to 11" width tire gives an ideal amount of flotation, IMO (just right amount flotation, IMO, not to much or to little) when the tire is TALL, like those 35.5" tires.

I like the old school Q78 flotation size, which was considered wide back then. Today it's considered narrow. Everything is relative. To me, it's medium width.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davetopay View Post
High speed(relatively speaking) hasn't been an issue as long as they are aired up. I routinely cruise at 65-70 mph comfortably.
That is amazing because the Grip Spur and Gateway Buckshot Mudders were developed for the old school Dodge Power Wagons and International 4x4 pickups, and similar 4x4 trucks. Those old trucks were heavy as a modern Suburban, but only had 6 cylinder engines that made about half as much horse power and slightly less torque than our 4L Jeep engines. Those old trucks came stock with 5.89 diff gears!

Those old Dodge Power Wagon and IH trucks were able to cruise on the freeway at 55 mph or so in the 1950s. Maybe you could push them to 60 mph with a tail wind. In the late 1960s the PW got larger 6 cylinder engines and I think maybe one more gear in the tranny. They were then able to cruise at 60 mph to 65 mph. That upgrade was needed so they could be driven on those new fangled freeways that Eisenhower had just had built in the 1950s and were still being built in the 1960s.

Point being, those Gateway BS MT and Grip Spur tires were made for trucks that could only cruise at 60 to 65 mph at most. So those tires were made to work up to about 65 mph as part of their design.

So it's amazing to me that you can drive them faster than 65 mph and still be safe. You're probably pushing your luck driving 70 mph with those tires.

I still love those tires though because I'm happy driving 65 mph.
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Unread 10-25-2010, 10:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davetopay View Post
If you want something really aggressive with old school style check out Specialty Tires of America, or Universal Tire in PA.

STA is the merger of McCreary and Dennman.
I'll check them out.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 07:24 AM   #27
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We have these tires currently in stock. 15 inch N78 and 16 inch P78 IN STOCK but not for long. We got a semi load of these in blem version. $125 for 15 inch and $139 for 16 inch. Give us a call at 1-888-513-8473.
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ptd/3891732235.html
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Unread 07-02-2013, 01:19 PM   #28
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Dam and my KM2's that I settled for are still like new appearance and tread depth wise.
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