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Unread 11-14-2013, 04:33 AM   #76
Ed209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Grabber AT2 are exceptionally heavy for AT. Even moreso in load E. Grabber AT2 also have a high rolling resistance for AT.

I think you'd experience some improvements switching to Duratrac load C. I can't put any gas mileage estimate to it.

If you switched to a Cooper AT3,, Mastercraft AXT, Hercules AT2, Goodyear Silent Armor, you would see more gas mileage improvement. i.e. - something lightweight and less knobby than Duratrac would give better gas mileage.
The Grabber AT2 245/75x16 E load at 46 lbs is 2 lbs lighter than BFG T/A KO at 48lbs and only 1lb heavier than Duratrac E load, which is 45 lbs. The Duratrac C load is 40 lbs, so the weight issue is a load issue, not a Grabber issue.

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Unread 11-14-2013, 09:19 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
16 x 7 aluminum weigh around 21 lbs

15 x 7 aluminum probably weigh around 15 or 16 lbs. I will weigh one soon.

If you want to use 30 x 9.5 R15 you need 15 x 7 wheels.
OH man! I totally whiffed on that one. Of course I would go to a 15x7 aluminum if staying with the same size tire. Thanks again and I'm excited to see your results of weighing some 15x7s. Cheers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
I'm measuring the standard way, from the back edge to the hub mounting flange, and very carefully with precision tools. I have no idea how Jeep measures, but it seems to vary. They say Eccos are 5.25 and I measured my brother's and got 5.25 also. However, they say Moabs are 5" and mine are 5 1/8", same as my Silverstars. In most cases, 1/8" probably won't matter, but when it's crucial, you should always measure and not just accept "official" BS.
WERD! I will def bring along my precision stanley tape measure and measure for myself before I buy any used rims. 5.25 or 5.125 both will work great for a 30x9.5xR15, but starts to get real close in the 32" tire world. Thanks Again for your time.



Now the big question remains, why the F doesn't the Duratrac come in a 30x9.5xR15 size?


Back to the 3.07s issue: If a 15x7 aluminum replaced my 15x7 steel that saves me lets say ~8lbs per wheel and I then go to a same sized tire say the Cooper S/T at 37lbs that is a total saving of ~12lbs per wheel/tire. This scenario will obviously increase mpg, braking and acceleration, but any clue how much? Will it be drastic say make it feel as if someone slipped in some 3.73s overnight or will it be mildly noticeable?


Shoot dang, maybe I just downsize to the 235/75/R15 Duratrac. I was on stock 28" for a good year and the look never really bothered me back in 05-06.

Rock On
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Unread 11-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #78
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Found this on CL



I found these buried in an add for a $600 cherokee that runs on CL, they are his extra wheels. This is an Ecco correct? It looks like it to me.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:19 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by JPGoody View Post


I found these buried in an add for a $600 cherokee that runs on CL, they are his extra wheels. This is an Ecco correct? It looks like it to me.
Sure looks like it - just like on my brothers '05 X TJ and even the same T/A KO tires. They have 5.25" BS, cause I measured his, and that also agrees with the published BS.

However, I'm not sure that there wasn't an Ecco version for Cherokees, so check it out further - maybe he got them off a TJ.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
The Grabber AT2 245/75x16 E load at 46 lbs is 2 lbs lighter than BFG T/A KO at 48lbs and only 1lb heavier than Duratrac E load, which is 45 lbs. The Duratrac C load is 40 lbs, so the weight issue is a load issue, not a Grabber issue.
You're correct. It's the Grabber that is super heavy, not the Grabber AT2. I got my Grabbers confused. However, both have a higher rolling resistance than most ATs.

According to Consumer Reports the Grabber AT2 has a higher rolling resistance than most ATs. I assume the
Duratrac has a higher rolling resistance than most AT.

So perhaps not much difference in gas mileage between Grabber AT2 and Duratrac. Neither of those would be my choice for gas mileage. However, there are several great performing ATs that would have less rolling resistance and be light that would make a noticeable improvement to gas mileage.

On my prior two Jeeps I had BFG AT. On my current Jeep I tried Grabber AT2 for a while, then switched to Cooper AT3.

BFG AT and Cooper AT3 both give reasonably good gas mileage. The Grabber AT2 gave lousy gas mileage. These were all load C tires. So I'm comparing C to C in paragraphs above.

And of course load C are lighter and have less rolling resistance than D or E.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
Sure looks like it - just like on my brothers '05 X TJ and even the same T/A KO tires. They have 5.25" BS, cause I measured his, and that also agrees with the published BS.

However, I'm not sure that there wasn't an Ecco version for Cherokees, so check it out further - maybe he got them off a TJ.
I have Eccos on my XJ. The same Eccos were used on XJ, some TJ, and maybe some ZJ.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPGoody View Post
OH man! I totally whiffed on that one. Of course I would go to a 15x7 aluminum if staying with the same size tire. Thanks again and I'm excited to see your results of weighing some 15x7s. Cheers.




WERD! I will def bring along my precision stanley tape measure and measure for myself before I buy any used rims. 5.25 or 5.125 both will work great for a 30x9.5xR15, but starts to get real close in the 32" tire world. Thanks Again for your time.



Now the big question remains, why the F doesn't the Duratrac come in a 30x9.5xR15 size?


Back to the 3.07s issue: If a 15x7 aluminum replaced my 15x7 steel that saves me lets say ~8lbs per wheel and I then go to a same sized tire say the Cooper S/T at 37lbs that is a total saving of ~12lbs per wheel/tire. This scenario will obviously increase mpg, braking and acceleration, but any clue how much? Will it be drastic say make it feel as if someone slipped in some 3.73s overnight or will it be mildly noticeable?


Shoot dang, maybe I just downsize to the 235/75/R15 Duratrac. I was on stock 28" for a good year and the look never really bothered me back in 05-06.

Rock On
You need something better than a Stanley pull out tape, cause it's designed to measure from the inside of the tab on the end and if you measure from the outside like you must do when measuring BS, it will read low. Also, you need a perfectly straight edge to lay across the back of the wheel.

If you're going back to a 30x9.50, even 5.5" BS is OK, because there have been TJs factory equipped with 15x8/5.5 BS wheels and 30x9.50s.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:46 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPGoody View Post
OH man! I totally whiffed on that one. Of course I would go to a 15x7 aluminum if staying with the same size tire. Thanks again and I'm excited to see your results of weighing some 15x7s. Cheers.

WERD! I will def bring along my precision stanley tape measure and measure for myself before I buy any used rims. 5.25 or 5.125 both will work great for a 30x9.5xR15, but starts to get real close in the 32" tire world. Thanks Again for your time.

Now the big question remains, why the F doesn't the Duratrac come in a 30x9.5xR15 size?

Back to the 3.07s issue: If a 15x7 aluminum replaced my 15x7 steel that saves me lets say ~8lbs per wheel and I then go to a same sized tire say the Cooper S/T at 37lbs that is a total saving of ~12lbs per wheel/tire. This scenario will obviously increase mpg, braking and acceleration, but any clue how much? Will it be drastic say make it feel as if someone slipped in some 3.73s overnight or will it be mildly noticeable?


Shoot dang, maybe I just downsize to the 235/75/R15 Duratrac. I was on stock 28" for a good year and the look never really bothered me back in 05-06.

Rock On
Why not get another good brand of AT in 30 x 9.5 R15? In that size the Hankook ATM is my favorite. I have Cooper AT3 in that size and they are great. There are many good choices.

Which tire is best depends on size and your needs.

Please see these threads:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/n...e-one-1527835/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/l...zj-tj-1523888/
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Unread 11-14-2013, 06:15 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Why not get another good brand of AT in 30 x 9.5 R15? In that size the Hankook ATM is my favorite. I have Cooper AT3 in that size and they are great. There are many good choices.

Which tire is best depends on size and your needs.

Please see these threads:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/n...e-one-1527835/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/l...zj-tj-1523888/
thanks for the links, I've been slowly reading through as I sip my evening brews trying to sort through all the tire/wheel info I need to make a proper decision

pretty sure this thread has lead me to the liking of the Ecco, thanks

We'll see where the other thread takes me.

Due to my 3.07s the 30x9.5 AT/3 at 29.3" has my attention. The Duratrac also suits my needs but I have to decide if the 28.9" will work for me, I do a lot of snowy driving in the mtns, both on and off road and like it's snow rep. Hell, I was in +18" 3 weeks ago at Elk camp and the ole silent armors did ok. And that brings me to my 3rd tire option, something with kevlar. I do some mild rocky trial rides here in CO and damn those things are sharp.


Happy Trails
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Unread 11-14-2013, 07:15 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by JPGoody View Post
thanks for the links, I've been slowly reading through as I sip my evening brews trying to sort through all the tire/wheel info I need to make a proper decision

pretty sure this thread has lead me to the liking of the Ecco, thanks

We'll see where the other thread takes me.

Due to my 3.07s the 30x9.5 AT/3 at 29.3" has my attention. The Duratrac also suits my needs but I have to decide if the 28.9" will work for me, I do a lot of snowy driving in the mtns, both on and off road and like it's snow rep. Hell, I was in +18" 3 weeks ago at Elk camp and the ole silent armors did ok. And that brings me to my 3rd tire option, something with kevlar. I do some mild rocky trial rides here in CO and damn those things are sharp.


Happy Trails
Hope the Kevlars you're thinking of aren't MT/R-K's, cause like it's Duratrac brother, it doesn't come in a 30x9.5.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #86
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Goodyear, I bite my thumb at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed209 View Post
Hope the Kevlars you're thinking of aren't MT/R-K's, cause like it's Duratrac brother, it doesn't come in a 30x9.5.

I'd buy some Duratrac 30x9.5s right now if available. I'm referring to my current rubbers that have served me well, the "silent armor." The adventure(?) it is kevlar'd too.

Just looked it up and Bam-O, no 30x9.5 in the AT Adventurer w/Kevlar sidewalls. 31x10.50 only for the R15 world. So it's silent armor or nothing for me. I may just omit GY out of spite.

Last edited by JPGoody; 11-14-2013 at 10:35 PM..
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Unread 11-15-2013, 01:20 AM   #87
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I'd buy some Duratrac 30x9.5s right now if available. I'm referring to my current rubbers that have served me well, the "silent armor." The adventure(?) it is kevlar'd too.

Just looked it up and Bam-O, no 30x9.5 in the AT Adventurer w/Kevlar sidewalls. 31x10.50 only for the R15 world. So it's silent armor or nothing for me. I may just omit GY out of spite.
Take a look at the General Grabber AT2 - they're good all around, car tire quiet on the road, stay round and balanced, are tough as nails, and cost less than most comparable ATs.
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Unread 11-15-2013, 02:14 AM   #88
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Take a look at the General Grabber AT2 - they're good all around, car tire quiet on the road, stay round and balanced, are tough as nails, and cost less than most comparable ATs.
All that is correct, but the Grabber AT2 has a high rolling resistance for an AT, and is exceptionally tall in size 30 x 9.5 R15. It is 29.8" tall, and 10" wide in real life.

I know because I previously owned Grabber AT2 in 30 x 9.5 R15. It almost looked like a 31 x 10.5.

The Grabber AT2 30 x 9.5 R15 was NOT helpful for my gas mileage or power.

Then I switched to Cooper AT3 in 30 x 9.5 R15 and my gas mileage and acceleration improved and I could pull hills in high gear that I previously could not.

Cooper AT3 and its 1st cousins (Mastercraft AXT and Hercules AT2) are excellent choices in 30 x 9.5 R15 for anyone wanting to improve gas mileage and power, especially for those who have not regeared.
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Unread 11-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #89
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General Tire Co has some nerve building a 30" tire that's actually 30" in diameter(almost). You will really be upset with Interco when I tell you that their TSL Bias tire in 31x10.50-15LT is 31.3" tall!
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Unread 11-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #90
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General Tire Co has some nerve building a 30" tire that's actually 30" in diameter(almost). You will really be upset with Interco when I tell you that their TSL Bias tire in 31x10.50-15LT is 31.3" tall!
I'm not disagreeing with you.

I see your point, but he wants a 30 partly because he's not regearing. So in that case a shorter 30 is better than a taller one, and he'd already indicated his preference for shorter 30s.
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