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Unread 10-08-2013, 06:09 PM   #16
jfive
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IMO the best mud tire I've driven in the snow is the Toyo MT. It's the best MT I've ever owned and I drive in weather a lot. (oops the last photo is my dodge with Michelin ATX2's). Can't figure out how to just delete the one pic.

toyo01.jpg

toyo02.jpg

toyo03.jpg

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Unread 10-08-2013, 06:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I want to meet these people who consider BFG AT and General AT2 to be great in snow of all things. The Generals are OK at best because of their slightly more aggressive design and better compound, but these old-school interlocked tread patterns really aren't that good with snow and tend to just pack-up and push snow in front of them instead of cutting through it and actually grabbing traction.

I'd never touch a BFG AT because of the existence of the Generals, and The only people I can think of that the General AT2 is THE tire for are people in the southwest with dry, rocky/sandy terrain--excellent tires for that.
I agree... the BFG and General are not good in snow at all. You do not want a tread pattern that holds snow when you're on the highway...and that's exactly what these interlocked treads do. They are terrible. The people who are happy with them would have been happy with anything else. They only rate the tires highly because it's a new purchase, and because the internet says they are awesome. Truth is...in real life these tires SUCK in snow and mud both.

If you want a real all-terrain tire then go get yourself a set of Cooper AT3s or Toyo AT2s or Hercules AT2s or Hanook ATMs...something that actually has a modern tread design and silica based rubber compound. BFG is 30 years past it's prime and they are still trying to get top dollar for them. What a joke.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 12:28 AM   #18
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If MT are up for consideration, Trxus MT are great in Winter conditions and mud.

Grippy rubber compound and lots of sipes.

I think they're OK on road (as OK as MT get on road). They are reputed to wear faster than most, which if true is the only downside I've heard about them. That's probably a side effect of the soft grippy rubber.

I've heard their price is reasonable.

===

No matter what tire, the narrower the tire the better for Winter roads. Tall and narrow ideally. When I say narrow, I mean 9" to 10" section width ideally, or 10.5" at most.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 01:07 AM   #19
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Anyone had first hand experience with the Firestone destination AT?

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 04:57 AM   #20
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Interesting subject. The laws here where I live require you to have snow tire only during the winter months. AT tires just don't cut it.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 05:47 AM   #21
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Anyone had first hand experience with the Firestone destination AT?

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.
Loved mine. They were P285/70-17 and they were awesome at everything except mud. They were silent, and gripped well in rain and snow. My complaint was that at 25,000 miles they were already down to 5 or 6/32nds of tread remaining. So I haven't ever bought them again.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 09:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
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IMO the best mud tire I've driven in the snow is the Toyo MT. It's the best MT I've ever owned and I drive in weather a lot.
I agree with this. I am on my third set with the first two making it to 50,000 miles before I had to replace them. This is with regular rotation of course. The deeper the snow the better. When it comes to ice they are the same as everything else but other than that they are impressive. They are quiet on the street, never hydroplane and perform excellent on all surfaces from soft sand, mud, rocks to hard dirt. It amazes me on how tough the tire itself is. I should have shredded them many times over but they just take the beating. Mine are 285/75/16 and I'm not sure if other sizes perform differently.

I have owned may sets of tires over the last 37 of wheeling using both AT's and MT's and these are by far the best tire I have ever owned.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 06:23 PM   #23
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But aren't the Toyo MTs the ones that people say are super heavy? Or am I thinking of the Nitto MT? One of the two is realllllly heavy compared to other MTs and generally destroys performance, braking, and mileage. You'd have to be off the pavement a LOT to justify the cost and weight.
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Unread 10-10-2013, 11:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
I agree... the BFG and General are not good in snow at all.
Awe c'on, they do good enough on snow and ice. I snow and ice wheeled a lot with BFG AT. They were very good on packed snow and deep snow. On ice they were OK. I had them in 30 x 9.5 R15 on my 96 XJ, and 33 x 10.5 R15 on my 06 LJ.

I had a Cooper AT (years before AT3 existed) and it was as good on snow and better on ice than the BFG AT. So I'm not saying the BFG AT is the best for Winter conditions, but it's plenty decent for Winter in a narrow tire width.

I never tried my Grabber AT2 on Winter roads. I didn't own them long enough. I had to trade them in for Cooper AT3 to save my tortured spine. The Grabber AT2 rode really rough, while the Cooper AT3 ride nice and comfortably soft.

However, even though I never tried the Grabber AT2 on Winter roads, everyone I know who has tried it says it's excellent on Winter roads.

The BFG AT is snow flake rated in its narrower width tires, or used to be. Not sure of current status. The Grabber AT2 is currently snow flake rated.

So I don't see how anyone can say either of those are poor on Winter roads.

However, there are several better AT tires for Winter (and probably all else) such as Cooper AT3, Hercules AT2, Hankook ATM, and possibly Toyo AT2. The Toyo AT2 is so new that not a lot is known about it yet.
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Unread 10-10-2013, 11:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ton45 View Post
Interesting subject. The laws here where I live require you to have snow tire only during the winter months. AT tires just don't cut it.
Snow flake rated AT or AS cut it, IMO.

Don't your laws recognize snow flake rated (Winter rated) tires?

I have heard from other Canadians that winter rated ATs are acceptable for your laws and insurance. Also Winter rated AS (all season).
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Unread 10-10-2013, 11:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by WXman View Post
But aren't the Toyo MTs the ones that people say are super heavy? Or am I thinking of the Nitto MT? One of the two is realllllly heavy compared to other MTs and generally destroys performance, braking, and mileage. You'd have to be off the pavement a LOT to justify the cost and weight.
Both are heavy. Nittos are made by Toyo and are its old models of tires are reincarnated under Nitto brand. At least that's what I've read at other forums.

Essentially, Nitto tires are the obsolete models of Toyo tires, and both brands are notoriously heavy. So I've read anyway.

I've not owned either brand, but even the manager at Les Schwab (who sells them) warned me that Toyos MT are very heavy, and stiff/rough riding, and he convinced me NOT to buy them.

He knows me. He knows I like light weight tires and a good ride, which is why he recommended Toyo AT or BFG AT to me. The BFG AT was the tire I already owned at the time. Now I'm getting that from Cooper AT3 and even happier.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 06:10 AM   #27
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Just the small snow flake is not enough starting this year, it needs the pictogram representing a mountain with a superimposed snowflake.

BFG AT are not compliant and they had to removed the pictogram on their latest production. Not sure about the Duratrac if they had to remove it as well, I think so, but they are studable, so if equipped with studs, they are accepted.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 11:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Both are heavy. Nittos are made by Toyo and are its old models of tires are reincarnated under Nitto brand. At least that's what I've read at other forums.

Essentially, Nitto tires are the obsolete models of Toyo tires, and both brands are notoriously heavy. So I've read anyway.

I've not owned either brand, but even the manager at Les Schwab (who sells them) warned me that Toyos MT are very heavy, and stiff/rough riding, and he convinced me NOT to buy them.

He knows me. He knows I like light weight tires and a good ride, which is why he recommended Toyo AT or BFG AT to me. The BFG AT was the tire I already owned at the time. Now I'm getting that from Cooper AT3 and even happier.
That's weird. The manager at a local tire factory couldn't recommend toyo mt's enough, and runs them on his jk.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350 View Post
Anyone had first hand experience with the Firestone destination AT?

Sent from my phone where correct grammar is difficult.

i had a set i tried on two completely different vehicles, dodge dakota and geo tracker. both were 4x4's.
the firestones really sucked on both of them. little traction on snowy/icy roads. living where winter type driving is at least 6 months out of each year, i got rid of them. will never own another set of them.
but that's just my experience.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 03:33 PM   #30
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fwiw, i use these tires on my vehicles: https://www.treadwright.com/p-27-235...iom-a-t-e.aspx
I"ve gotten 50k miles and 5 years out of the last set. just got another set. they do very well for me on the ice, snow, and spring thaw mud here in northern minnesota. and it's tough to beat their prices.
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