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Unread 09-22-2013, 05:34 PM   #1
noleyy
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best tire for snow, road and mud

hey i am wanting to upgrade my tires soon and was wondering what tire will do best in snow mud and on road. yes i know mud and snow tires are completely different. but i use my jeep all year round as my dd and didnt want to buy two sets of tires. want to around 50k kms. was looking at mt/r with kelvar and toyo mt but have not a clue what to choose for tires will be running atleast a 35x12.5

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Unread 09-22-2013, 07:21 PM   #2
wilson1010
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Getting an aggressive tread tire like an MTR or a Toyo MT (or a KM2, etc.) that is good in snow is like getting a pistol that is good for hunting. None of them are even close to a real snow and ice tire. Not in the same ballpark. Like looking for the tallest midget. And unless you live in a climate where there are a lot of snow days, why compromise. Get the best all around tire for your uses and don't try to make an MT into a snow tire.
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Unread 09-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #3
Millermagic
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You can add siping to a mud tire - that will help a bit in the snow and rain.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 01:24 AM   #4
karlo
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I always heard that General Grabber AT/AT2 are good in mud and snow.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 09:02 AM   #5
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlo
I always heard that General Grabber AT/AT2 are good in mud and snow.
I want to meet these people who consider BFG AT and General AT2 to be great in snow of all things. The Generals are OK at best because of their slightly more aggressive design and better compound, but these old-school interlocked tread patterns really aren't that good with snow and tend to just pack-up and push snow in front of them instead of cutting through it and actually grabbing traction.

I'd never touch a BFG AT because of the existence of the Generals, and The only people I can think of that the General AT2 is THE tire for are people in the southwest with dry, rocky/sandy terrain--excellent tires for that.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #6
wilson1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I want to meet these people who consider BFG AT and General AT2 to be great in snow of all things. The Generals are OK at best because of their slightly more aggressive design and better compound, but these old-school interlocked tread patterns really aren't that good with snow and tend to just pack-up and push snow in front of them instead of cutting through it and actually grabbing traction.

I'd never touch a BFG AT because of the existence of the Generals, and The only people I can think of that the General AT2 is THE tire for are people in the southwest with dry, rocky/sandy terrain--excellent tires for that.
It will be a little hard to do that. As you know, Tire Rack surveys the owners of tires including the BFG AT and the General Grabber AT2.

Respondents reporting 104,000,000 miles of actual use ranked those two tires at the very top of all AT tires in light and deep snow. General being the absolute number one and the BFG tire coming in third out of the 18 tires surveyed.

So, there are probably about 1000 folks who have responded to the survey you will have to convince.

Of course, as I said before, none of these AT's is even in the same ballpark as a Blizzak or a studded snow.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 11:44 AM   #7
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Cooper STT's will get the job done and then some from what you listed. Strong sidewall, Great lugs that chew through and clean out easy. Siped for wet weather and will net around 50k rotated correctly.
They are just as good as any other tire in snow, Common sense says its slick, Drive slower to the conditions and you will have no problems.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #8
biffgnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noleyy View Post
hey i am wanting to upgrade my tires soon and was wondering what tire will do best in snow mud and on road. yes i know mud and snow tires are completely different. but i use my jeep all year round as my dd and didnt want to buy two sets of tires. want to around 50k kms. was looking at mt/r with kelvar and toyo mt but have not a clue what to choose for tires will be running atleast a 35x12.5
I love my MTRs. Good compromise of onroad (daily driven) and offroad (NE muddy, rocky trails). But onroad snow conditions are probably their weakest area IMO. YMMV.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #9
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010

It will be a little hard to do that. As you know, Tire Rack surveys the owners of tires including the BFG AT and the General Grabber AT2.

Respondents reporting 104,000,000 miles of actual use ranked those two tires at the very top of all AT tires in light and deep snow. General being the absolute number one and the BFG tire coming in third out of the 18 tires surveyed.

So, there are probably about 1000 folks who have responded to the survey you will have to convince.

Of course, as I said before, none of these AT's is even in the same ballpark as a Blizzak or a studded snow.
Not really interested in convincing anyone of anything. Just want to meet and see if my theory is correct that they simply have little to no experience to draw from when attempting to objectively evaluate a tire. I've met people using downright terrible tires who swore by them because they didn't know any better--never tried anything else, so they had no clue what they were missing. I'd wager that's what happens with a lot of Tirerack's reviews (not all; probably not even most, but enough to poison the water so to speak) which is why I take them with a grain of salt, and that's not even accounting for the other psychological effects of review systems like Tirerack's such as peer pressure. It's not quite a fair comparison, but sometime I feel like letting Tirerack tell you what the best tires are would be like letting Ryan Seacrest's Top 40 tell you what the best songs are. I respect reviews and recommendations, but they're only a couple tools in the toolbox.

Re OP: Cooper AT3 come to mind. Hercules has a very similar AT that might be even better. STT could work if you want more aggressive; might benefit from siping. GY Duratrac maybe. The problem here is that mud, street, and snow are three extremely different things and would be the holy grail of tires if such a tire existed.

Get ready to compromise on something.

So many people are resistant to having a second set of wheels/tires, but if you have the space to store a set, the cost is actually very minor in the long run. Used steelies are dirt cheap and perfect for mounting snow tires to; while you're driving on the snow tires, you're NOT driving on your other tires which makes those tires last longer. You'll still get the same number of miles on each set of tires you're supposed to for the money. Heck, given that many snow tires tend to be cheaper than many AT and MT tires, you may actually save money on the long run by not wearing your AT/MT tires down during the winter months.
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Unread 09-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #10
wilson1010
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Well, the criticism that Tire Rack surveys don't mean much because most everyone is a moron, is a really, really weak argument. Assuming it is true that most everyone is a moron, then the morons all cancel each other out and what is left is the knowledgeable persons who sway the results. Its a basic statistical fact. Anyone who has taken an intro course in statistics knows this. And, not to start something with you, but you and I are just two more people with opinions. And, if you ask one of those 1000 folks who answered that survey if their opinion about tires they actually own was as good as mine, or yours, on tires we might or might not own, they might just think it is. And, while I value my own opinion a lot, I don't know you from a load of coal (or a big brown dog). So, when you say that 1000 people responding to a survey who actually own the tires don't know what they are talking about, you lose anyone with a basic knowledge of statistics. The surveys are valid. Trust me on that. You may not like the results but the folks have voted with their credit cards and they are happy with their purchases.

Your comment about Ryan Seacrest shows that you do not really understand the difference between a recommendation and a survey. Reading the list of the top 10 AT's from the editorial staff of an off road magazine is like having Ryan tell you what to listen to. Seeing the top box office selling movie with the best customer reviews is like following a survey. You can't go through life seeing every movie to figure out which one to see. You have to pick one for Saturday night and if 600000 people saw it and liked it, it is a pretty good bet even though most people are morons.

OP: Still, no AT is worth a crap in the snow. And, my best snow rig has a set of AT's on it. (It is so good in the snow it doesn't need any special tire. K2500 Burb with posi front and rear. It will go anywhere. But, my wife's 03 Rubi needs the Blizzaks that are on it, and I can tell you there is not an aggressive tread tire that is even close).
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Unread 09-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #11
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I want to meet these people who consider BFG AT and General AT2 to be great in snow of all things.
Hi. I'm one of those people.

Also, the Grabber AT2 is snowflake rated.

The BFG AT is snow flake rated too (in narrower sizes). I did lots of snow and some ice wheeling with BFG AT 33X10.5 on an LJ. Good on snow, marginally OK on ice. No complaints (except marginal mud performance).

The Grabber AT2 is better than BFG AT (IMO), except Grabber AT2 rides rough, while BFG AT rides soft and comfortable.

I have owned both tires. Lots of experience with the BFG AT. Limited experience with Grabber AT2 because I returned them due to harsh ride. Exchanged Grabber AT2 for Cooper AT3, which are great tires.

However I do agree that there are better AT choices for Winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
The Generals are OK at best because of their slightly more aggressive design and better compound, but these old-school interlocked tread patterns really aren't that good with snow and tend to just pack-up and push snow in front of them instead of cutting through it and actually grabbing traction.

I'd never touch a BFG AT because of the existence of the Generals, and The only people I can think of that the General AT2 is THE tire for are people in the southwest with dry, rocky/sandy terrain--excellent tires for that.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 05:59 AM   #12
Trendsetter75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
It will be a little hard to do that. As you know, Tire Rack surveys the owners of tires including the BFG AT and the General Grabber AT2.

Respondents reporting 104,000,000 miles of actual use ranked those two tires at the very top of all AT tires in light and deep snow. General being the absolute number one and the BFG tire coming in third out of the 18 tires surveyed.

So, there are probably about 1000 folks who have responded to the survey you will have to convince.

Of course, as I said before, none of these AT's is even in the same ballpark as a Blizzak or a studded snow.
I'd done tons of research on tires and Goodyear Duratracs are superior in deep snow, Light Snow. As far as A/T Firestone is superior for street driving.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 12:46 PM   #13
Charley3
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Good on Winter roads, listed in no particular order:

Michelin LTX
BFG AT
General Grabber AT2
Cooper AT3
Hercules AT2
Hankook ATM
Trxus MT
Duratrac

All those are reviewed to be good on snow. A few are also reviewed to be good on ice.

Also, the narrower the tire the better for Winter roads.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 12:48 PM   #14
Charley3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millermagic View Post
You can add siping to a mud tire - that will help a bit in the snow and rain.
It helps a lot, IME.

I had sipes added to some MT, and their Winter traction increased a lot. I didn't notice any difference on wet pavement because they were already good enough there.

The Winter road traction improved from terrible to good.

However, an appropriate AT is probably still better on Winter roads.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #15
Scherer
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Just got a set of Cooper AT3s for my truck. 265/70/17. Paid $138/tire installed. Will let u know how they perform once I drive more than the half mile home today.
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