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Unread 05-17-2013, 02:11 AM   #1
ADragg
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Any good M/T's that are C-rated? Nitto Trail Grappler MT

I just noticed that in ONE size (255/75/17), Nitto Trail Grappler MT's come in a C-rated version. That's awesome, as my WJ is my DD and I wouldn't mind the softness of ride that a C-rated tire provides and they will also be lighter and get better gas mileage. I've also heard this is an extremely quiet tire for an MT. Are there any other C-rated MT's??

I know, C-rated tires will have much weaker sidewalls. But I'm not too worried about it since I'm a casual wheeler and I'm not going to be doing to much crazy rock crawling. I just want as aggressive as a tire as I can get that still ride nicely and don't weigh too much. The only tire that I've found that's C rated and looks almost as aggressive as an MT is the Goodyear Duratracs. That's been my main choice, but I've heard the sidewalls are weak and I just have a good feeling about the Nitto's. They look great and should ride quiet as well as last long (another concern in Las Vegas heat, as I've heard the Duratracs have a soft tread compound).

I'm just looking for opinions on the Nitto's and wondering if there are any other C-rated Mud Terrains out there to consider. Also, if someone knows how much the Nitto's weigh in 255/75/17, that would be amazing. I know the Duratracs weigh only 45 pounds and any MT I've found weighs AT LEAST 50 lbs in this size range (31.5-32"), usually more. If the Nitto's don't weigh much more than 50, then I think they'll be my choice as I have a feeling they'll last longer and have stronger sidewalls that the Duratracs.

Thanks for any input you guys can offer.

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Unread 05-17-2013, 05:47 PM   #2
mschi772
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I believe Kumho Road Venture MT KL71 have some C-rated sizes. They'd probably be my choice for an MT tire especially for a daily driver. I think that many of the popular MT tires have C-rated sizes, but I'm not sure what size you need. You'll NEVER get as good of MPG or quiet with an MT compared to an AT or highway tire--never. I say that, because if you don't wheel and those are your priorities, an MT will be very inappropriate for you.
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Unread 05-18-2013, 12:50 AM   #3
ADragg
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
I believe Kumho Road Venture MT KL71 have some C-rated sizes. They'd probably be my choice for an MT tire especially for a daily driver. I think that many of the popular MT tires have C-rated sizes, but I'm not sure what size you need. You'll NEVER get as good of MPG or quiet with an MT compared to an AT or highway tire--never. I say that, because if you don't wheel and those are your priorities, an MT will be very inappropriate for you.
Thanks for your input. Since creating this thread, I've discovered that many MT's in the odd 255/75/17 size are C-rated. I have mostly been looking at 265/70/17 because I like that they're a little wider and they're a little smaller, so I figured that was the best size choice since they're still almost as big but might get a little better mileage since they're as much as a half an inch smaller. In the 265/70/17 size, EVERY M/T is E-rated for some reason. And with most manufacturers, the ONLY size that's C-rated seems to be that 255/75/17 (at least in the 17 inch wheel range). I'm guessing that's because that's the stock tire size for Jeep JK's, and Jeeps are generally better off with C-rated tires. I thought that size would be less optimal since they're a full size 32" rather than a 31.5, but now if they're C-rated (lighter) and have a slight narrower track, they might actually get better mileage than a slightly smaller E-rated M/T with a wider track, since E-rated is always heavier and wider track means more rolling resistance.

I DO wheel, I'm just not a crazy wheeler who does a lot of rock crawling and needs to worry about torn sidewalls all the time. I don't mind some noise from an MT, I'd just like to keep the noise down as much as possible. I do want an aggressive tire for looks and because I do wheel and want to have a capable Jeep off road, but any tire that is going to on the less noisy and less gas-killer side will get more consideration from me.

Since I've been looking at tires on other peoples' Jeeps and trucks around town, I almost see mud terrains as often as all terrains. Plenty of people who never take their Jeeps or trucks off road seem to be fine with them on daily drivers. Many JK's even come with BFG KM's stock, so they can't be too bad in the road manners department and can't be TOO loud. I'm just trying to find the right balance of aggressiveness in a tire that I'm drawn to and find one that is on the lighter side and decent road manners side. Finding that there are many C-rated MT's in the 255/75/17 range is a blessing because I'm hoping that the C-rating and narrower track will result in better gas mileage than 265/70/17 E -rated M/T's, due to lower weight and slightly better rolling resistance.

The least aggressive tire I'm considering is the Cooper AT3 and the most aggressive is some kind of M/T if I can find a C-rated one that's not too heavy and I would sacrifice a little gas mileage and noise for that extra aggressiveness. The Duratrac has been a big consideration as it's right in the middle, but expensive for an A/T and reputed to have weak sidewalls and poor wear in hot weather (at least according to a couple people). I know your recommendation would be the Coopers, but I'm just having a hard time convincing myself it's aggressive enough for my tastes, especially if I end up getting more involved in off-roading. I don't want to regret not getting a more capable off road tire, especially if there's an M/T choice that's not going to be significantly worse on gas.
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Unread 05-18-2013, 07:25 AM   #4
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Sounds like you've really thought it out. Tirerack.com is a great place to shop, and more importantly, research. They have a huge supply of reviews and surveys--both customer and professional. DiscountTireDirect.com is also a great place to shop. I find Tirerack's surveys to be slightly less useful for MT tires since the surveys are more road-oriented, and people don't contextualize their ratings within that class of tire very well. Reading through the reviews can still teach you a bunch.

Don't let what you see other people doing influence you too much. Lots of people don't have a clue about what they're actually doing. They buy a fancy Rubicon with KM2's just to show-off or because it has the biggest price-tag making it the best and most prestigious to show-off to the neighbors. Other people just don't know much about tires, so they use whatever it came with or whatever is cheapest or whatever looks the coolest without even considering how their traction, noise, ride, tread-life, etc could be better if they just put some thought/research into it.

I like the sound of your plan, though--you're a light wheeler, so you're looking for a lighter, comfier C-rating but still sticking to a more aggressive AT or mildish MT. Keep in mind that speedos tend to err on the side of fast from the factory, and shrinking your tire size just a tad (.5" is insignificant though--most tires of the "same" size vary by that much in reality) will make it just a little faster than that. You might want to look into getting something to correct your speedometer. You have a JK, yes? They can be electronically corrected with a little gadget--JK guys likely have more threads about this than they need in their forum.

P.S. Charley3 will be along in no time to really push that Cooper AT3.
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Unread 05-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #5
ADragg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Sounds like you've really thought it out. Tirerack.com is a great place to shop, and more importantly, research. They have a huge supply of reviews and surveys--both customer and professional. DiscountTireDirect.com is also a great place to shop. I find Tirerack's surveys to be slightly less useful for MT tires since the surveys are more road-oriented, and people don't contextualize their ratings within that class of tire very well. Reading through the reviews can still teach you a bunch.

Don't let what you see other people doing influence you too much. Lots of people don't have a clue about what they're actually doing. They buy a fancy Rubicon with KM2's just to show-off or because it has the biggest price-tag making it the best and most prestigious to show-off to the neighbors. Other people just don't know much about tires, so they use whatever it came with or whatever is cheapest or whatever looks the coolest without even considering how their traction, noise, ride, tread-life, etc could be better if they just put some thought/research into it.

I like the sound of your plan, though--you're a light wheeler, so you're looking for a lighter, comfier C-rating but still sticking to a more aggressive AT or mildish MT. Keep in mind that speedos tend to err on the side of fast from the factory, and shrinking your tire size just a tad (.5" is insignificant though--most tires of the "same" size vary by that much in reality) will make it just a little faster than that. You might want to look into getting something to correct your speedometer. You have a JK, yes? They can be electronically corrected with a little gadget--JK guys likely have more threads about this than they need in their forum.

P.S. Charley3 will be along in no time to really push that Cooper AT3.
I wish I had a JK! I actually have an 03 WJ Limited (Grand Cherokee) which isn't quite as cool as a JK but it's got plenty of power and has a very good 4wd system (Quadra Drive) with a factory locker system called Vari-Lok, decent axles (Dana 30 and Dana 44a), etc. From what I've read, WJ speedos actually run on the slow side and 31" tires make it about accurate and 32's should be pretty accurate, if not a little fast. Which is a good thing, because WJ's calculate speed differently and are much more difficult to change than most Jeeps.

Anyway, yeah, I'm a bit of a light wheeler just because it's such a nice, clean vehicle and I'm afraid of beating it up too much. However, with a 3"-4" lift and a few other decent components, it can become a very capable vehicle and I want to make it as capable as possible (tires included) so that I can have some fun with it. I just won't be beating it up too hard (although I'm not afraid to push it's limits a little) and I want to keep it as "nice" for daily driving as possible (which is why I went with Bilstein shocks and other things like that instead of spending that extra money on lifting it higher). I'm just trying to find that balance in a tire and don't want something brutal for daily driving, but I'm willing to sacrifice some MPG's and learn to live with some noise for the sake of "looks" and off-road ability.

I'm been trying to learn as much about tires as possible for the past month while I've been waiting for all of my parts to arrive and it looks like my Old Man Emu springs are finally about to show up, so I'm about ready to make a decision. I don't mind anyone "pushing" me towards Cooper AT3's, since I know that's the most practical choice. But if I could get some Nitto Trail Grappler M/T's or Duratrac's in the same size and not noticeably worse gas mileage (more than 1 or 2 mpg's difference), then I'd kind of like to get the more aggressive option.

Anyway, thanks for your input and any advice.
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Unread 05-19-2013, 08:47 AM   #6
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Hey, no need to defend a WJ to me. I respect them, and had I found a nice one before this XJ, I'd be a WJ guy right now. It's simple enough to see how accurate your speedo is by just grabbing a GPS/Nav system that displays speed to check your speedo against during a drive (preferably at highway speeds).

Tires in AT and MT in the sizes you mentioned with C-ratings that I'd recommend:
  • Cooper AT3 265/70R17, 41 lbs
  • Firestone Destination AT (rebate currently) LT255/75R17, 43 lbs; P255/75R17, 43 lbs
  • Hankook Dynapro ATM P265/70R17, 39 lbs
  • General Grabber AT2 P265/65R17, 41 lbs
  • Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor P255/75R17, 43 lbs
  • Nitto Trail Grappler
  • Firestone Destination MT (rebate currently) (similar design to Nitto Trail Grapplers) LT255/75R17, 51 lbs
  • Goodyear MTR w/ Kevlar (rebate currently) LT255/75R17, 52 lbs

These are not complete lists. These are tires in the size(s) you mentioned with C ratings that I believe to be quality choices. They're not available in these sizes with a C rating, but I'd personally add Cooper STT and Kumho KL71 to this list anyway. Despite them being a great tire, I'd honestly ignore the Silent Armors if I were in your shoes; I only listed them because they are a quality AT tire meeting your size and load requirement. Enjoy!
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Unread 05-20-2013, 12:53 AM   #7
ADragg
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
Hey, no need to defend a WJ to me. I respect them, and had I found a nice one before this XJ, I'd be a WJ guy right now. It's simple enough to see how accurate your speedo is by just grabbing a GPS/Nav system that displays speed to check your speedo against during a drive (preferably at highway speeds).

Tires in AT and MT in the sizes you mentioned with C-ratings that I'd recommend:
  • Cooper AT3 265/70R17, 41 lbs
  • Firestone Destination AT (rebate currently) LT255/75R17, 43 lbs; P255/75R17, 43 lbs
  • Hankook Dynapro ATM P265/70R17, 39 lbs
  • General Grabber AT2 P265/65R17, 41 lbs
  • Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor P255/75R17, 43 lbs
  • Nitto Trail Grappler
  • Firestone Destination MT (rebate currently) (similar design to Nitto Trail Grapplers) LT255/75R17, 51 lbs
  • Goodyear MTR w/ Kevlar (rebate currently) LT255/75R17, 52 lbs

These are not complete lists. These are tires in the size(s) you mentioned with C ratings that I believe to be quality choices. They're not available in these sizes with a C rating, but I'd personally add Cooper STT and Kumho KL71 to this list anyway. Despite them being a great tire, I'd honestly ignore the Silent Armors if I were in your shoes; I only listed them because they are a quality AT tire meeting your size and load requirement. Enjoy!
Thanks a lot for the list, man. Much appreciated Unfortunately, the only one I haven't been able to find the tire weight on (definitively) is the Nitto Trail Grappler, and it looks like you don't know it either. I have seen a couple places that it's 58 pounds but that was on Amazon, so I that could just be an exaggerated "shipping weight", not necessarily an accurate weight of the tire. If it's that heavy, I don't want it. But it seems odd that a C-rated tire would be that heavy. It would not only be heavier than all of the other Mud's in this size range I've been looking at, but it would also be heavier than even the E-rated A/T's and M/T's I seem to be finding. So that's crazy and I'm hoping it's not that heavy.

There's always "something" about a tire that I like. The Duratrac has a reputation for weak sidewalls and may also wear prematurely in hot climates and apparently is "extremely quiet" and to others is "extremely noisy". I have also heard from several people that it's hard to balance. The Nitto Trail Grappler looks perfect and "feels right", but so far it looks like it's super heavy. The Goodyear Kevlar MT/R seems like a good choice, but then I find out it's actual size is 32.3", so it's bigger than most tires in the 255/75/17 category. I wish I knew if the slightly bigger size and 6 pounds less per tire would make be more or less gas efficient than the Trail Grappler which is barely over 32" but supposedly weighs 58 pounds.

As usual, I'm probably overthinking it. But I want to get this right the first time. Tires aren't something easily returned.

As a brand, Cooper seems pretty awesome and I have a good feeling about their tires based on what I've read and heard. However, each of the tires that I like of theirs has "something" about it too. The AT3 is great, but I'm not sure if I'll be satisfied with it's aggressiveness (traction and appearance) in the long run. The STT seems like a great Mud Terrain, but I've heard they're noisy as hell, and I'm looking for an MT that's quiet-ish (for an MT...). I'm also not sure they come in a C-rated version at all. And finally, the tire that I really, really like, the ST MAXX, only comes in E-rating and while I've heard from a couple of people that the Cooper ST MAXX and ATP (both E-rated) don't ride too rough on a WJ, I just hesitate with getting an E-rated tire.

Anyway, thanks for hashing this out a bit with me. Still don't know what I'm going to get but I'm sure I'll make a choice once the final piece of my lift gets here and I'm ready to get some bigger tread on it.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 08:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ADragg View Post
I just noticed that in ONE size (255/75/17), Nitto Trail Grappler MT's come in a C-rated version. That's awesome, as my WJ is my DD and I wouldn't mind the softness of ride that a C-rated tire provides and they will also be lighter and get better gas mileage. I've also heard this is an extremely quiet tire for an MT. Are there any other C-rated MT's??

I know, C-rated tires will have much weaker sidewalls. But I'm not too worried about it since I'm a casual wheeler and I'm not going to be doing to much crazy rock crawling. I just want as aggressive as a tire as I can get that still ride nicely and don't weigh too much. The only tire that I've found that's C rated and looks almost as aggressive as an MT is the Goodyear Duratracs. That's been my main choice, but I've heard the sidewalls are weak and I just have a good feeling about the Nitto's. They look great and should ride quiet as well as last long (another concern in Las Vegas heat, as I've heard the Duratracs have a soft tread compound).

I'm just looking for opinions on the Nitto's and wondering if there are any other C-rated Mud Terrains out there to consider. Also, if someone knows how much the Nitto's weigh in 255/75/17, that would be amazing. I know the Duratracs weigh only 45 pounds and any MT I've found weighs AT LEAST 50 lbs in this size range (31.5-32"), usually more. If the Nitto's don't weigh much more than 50, then I think they'll be my choice as I have a feeling they'll last longer and have stronger sidewalls that the Duratracs.

Thanks for any input you guys can offer.
Not true. I have C rated TrXus MTs and have had C rated MTRs and their side walls are much stronger than the E rated tires on my old dually.

These ratings deal with the amount of weight they carry, not thickness of the sidewall. I have ripped e rated tires on sticks or "logs" that would not have been an issue with a good off road tire regardless whether they are C, D, of E rated.
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