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Unread 03-07-2014, 01:42 PM   #31
Charley3
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I don't know all the possible reasons it works, but letting out a little air helps me on Winter roads.

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Unread 03-07-2014, 01:49 PM   #32
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Years ago, my last set of Cooper AT on my prior XJ were rated for 40,000 miles and I got 60,000 miles out of them. Reducing air 5 psi (from 30 to 25) when needed for Winter storms didn't hurt their life span at all.

I only aired down when needed for a storm. Then aired back up between storms.
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Unread 03-08-2014, 03:58 AM   #33
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Bridgestone Debunks Four Winter Driving Myths

Nov 27, 2013
Myth 4: Under-inflate your tires for better traction.
  • Never reduce tire pressures in an attempt to increase traction on snow or ice. "Deflating your tires simply doesn't work in this situation. In fact, you could end up damaging your tires if you drive on them under-inflated," said Gandhi.
----------------------------------------------------------


http://ai.state.wy.us/GeneralService...e%20Safet1.htm


Never reduce tire pressure in an attempt to increase traction on snow or ice. It does not work.


--------------------------------------------------------------

Higher Tire Pressures for Winter Driving


Several vehicle manufacturer's owner's manuals recommend operating winter tires several psi (typically 3-5) higher than their recommended pressures for summer and all-season tires. While none of them actually provide the reason why, there are several scenarios that would support the practice.
First and foremost is that winter tires feature more aggressive tread designs, softer tread compounds and are often molded with deeper beginning tread depths than summer or all-season tires. While the combination of these design elements allows winter tires to remain more pliable in sub-freezing temperatures to provide more traction in snow and on ice, it often results in tires that have somewhat reduced responsiveness to driver input. The 3-5 psi higher recommended inflation pressures increase tire stability and help offset the reduction in responsiveness.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=168

---------------------------------------------------

You can do your own Internet search on the topic. I did mine a posted a few quick links above from responsible web pages. I will say that the myth persists in places like here, Yahoo answers, and little blogs, but the tally I observed is probably 10 to 1 against reducing tire pressure.

The Bridgestone research reported above was reported on many local AAA sites and most Auto magazine and blog sites on the Internet.

Finally, I call BS on the the allegation above that the police use reduced tire pressure in Winter.
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Unread 03-08-2014, 04:48 PM   #34
Charley3
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I know what works for me. The local cops do the same thing. I talked with a local cop about it. Many local people air down a little for Winter conditons. It works for us.

Keep in mind, where I live most of the Winter is fine, then a nasty storm comes in for a week, or two at most. Then back to fine for weeks. So most of us don't use dedicated Winter tires. That includes the cops.

If I lived somewhere that had snow or ice for months, I'd be using dedicated Winter tires, and if ice was frequent they'd have studs.

Anyone reading this who has an open mind and hasn't tried it... Try it with your all season or all terrain tires when there is a Winter storm. Reduce psi to 5 psi less than your normal street psi. Try it for yourself, then decide for yourself if your traction is better and come back and post about it.
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Unread 03-08-2014, 05:29 PM   #35
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BTW, since when does AAA, auto mags, and personal blogs automatically have more credibility than Jeepforum and my local cops?

What you did (Wllson), is you pronounced sites and sources that agree with you as responsible, and all sites and sources that don't agree with you as BS. That is not impartial research to find an impartial answer. It would be most accurate to say there are two views on the matter.

Most importantly, I wasn't posting about airing down dedicated Winter tires, which is what you (Wilson) mentioned in your recent post. I don't have an opinion on that. I was thinking of all season and all terrain tires in slick Winter conditions.

I have found that airing down a little bit with all season tires and all terrain tires helps. It may be different with dedicated Winter tires. I'm not making claims for dedicated Winter tires in this thread.
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Unread 03-08-2014, 06:22 PM   #36
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I'm not going to waste my time researching a ton of sites and posting links, but I did look at a few other sites, including Expedition Portal. Same deal as here. Some people on each side of the fence. Among those who advocate airing down, there is also some debate as to how much to air down.

I think it partly depends some of your type of snow/ice, and how often it's snowy/icy.

For example, where I live we can go weeks or a month or more with no snow/ice, then wham a nasty Winter storm comes in. So most of us don't feel we need dedicated Winter tires or studs. Pretty much only those who live on top of hills (our hills are mountains to Easterners) use dedicated Winter tires (usually with studs), though even many of them use all season or all terrain tires and air down.

Since most of us in my local area are using all season, or all terrain tires in Winter, or like on my car I have "Winter" tires without studs and they are rated for year round use, and I run them year round; but that type of "Winter" tire has rubber only slightly softer than a snowflake rated AS or AT. i.e. - my "Winter" tires (Hankook Ipike without studs) do well enough on snow, but not so good on ice. On my Jeep I have ATs.

The other factors might be temp and humidity. It's damp here and when snowing or icing it's only just below freezing. So we have wet snow and damp ice. That might also be a factor.

it's possible that what works in one climate might not work as well in another climate. It would also depend on type of tires. Wilson was referrring to dedicated Winter tires made for Winter only use. I have been referring to all season, all terrain, and "Winter" tires that have hard enough rubber to use year round. He was referring to Winter tires with really soft rubber. I was referring to AS, AT, and year round "Winter" tires, all of which are not as soft as Winter only tires.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 06:43 AM   #37
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Since Bridgestone has more credibility than any other tire maker on winter driving, I think Ill go with their opinion on this.

http://www.bridgestoneamericasmedia....-Driving-Myths

To promote the Blizzak and others, they actually operate a Winter Driver School and research facility in Colorado. I think there is someone on this thread who could use a trip there. Only a couple of hundred $$ to take the classes.

Here is the entire press release:


Nov 27, 2013
NASHVILLE, Tenn., Nov. 27, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- As winter weather pummels the East Coast in coming days, Anant Gandhi, Bridgestone Americas product manager and Mark Cox, director of the Bridgestone Winter Driving School are sharing their expertise to help drivers prepare for the conditions ahead by debunking four winter driving myths.
(Photo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20131127/CL24729-INFO )
Myth 1: You don't need winter tires unless it's snowing.
  • A snowplow can't clear the cold. When it comes to winter tires, temperature matters. "All tire rubber will begin to stiffen as the weather gets colder, but the latest generations of winter tires remain flexible in freezing temperatures, maintaining traction and available grip," said Anant Gandhi, Bridgestone Americas product manager. "Your tires are the one thing between your car and the pavement. As temperatures approach freezing, winter tires can provide increased traction, braking and handling."
Myth 2: If you have all wheel drive, you're good to go in the snow.
  • Four-wheel drive gets you going by making the most of tire traction, but it doesn't improve stopping or cornering. That depends on tire grip. "Lots of people who come out to the Bridgestone Winter Driving School think that four-wheel drive is all powerful in winter conditions," said Mark Cox, director of the Bridgestone Winter Driving School. "It doesn't matter whether you have four-wheel drive or two-wheel drive, when it comes to stopping it's all about tire grip. That's when winter tires are especially important. Installing winter tires on all wheel positions will improve surface grip in most winter road conditions."
Myth 3: If you have all-season tires, you may not need to switch to winter tires.
  • All-season tires are designed with both winter and summer performance in mind, but they do not offer maximum performance in either season. Winter tires are designed to remain flexible even at extremely low temperatures.

    "An all-season tire and even an M&S (mud and snow) tire do not provide maximum traction in wintery conditions as a true winter tire does," added Gandhi. "When you equip your vehicle with winter tires you may be better prepared for changing road conditions."
Myth 4: Under-inflate your tires for better traction.
  • Never reduce tire pressures in an attempt to increase traction on snow or ice. "Deflating your tires simply doesn't work in this situation. In fact, you could end up damaging your tires if you drive on them under-inflated," said Gandhi.
For more information about winter tires, visit www.conquerthecold.com and for additional tips from the Bridgestone Winter Driving School, visit www.winterdrive.com.
The tips are also available in the attached infographic, or you may download it at www.BridgestoneAmericasMedia.com.
About Bridgestone Americas, Inc.:
Nashville, Tenn.-based Bridgestone Americas, Inc. (BSAM) is the U.S. subsidiary of Bridgestone Corporation, the world's largest tire and rubber company. BSAM and its subsidiaries develop, manufacture and market a wide range of Bridgestone, Firestone and associate brand tires to address the needs of a broad range of customers, including consumers, automotive and commercial vehicle original equipment manufacturers, and those in the agricultural, forestry and mining industries. The companies are also engaged in retreading operations throughout the Western Hemisphere and produce air springs, roofing materials, and industrial fibers and textiles. The BSAM family of companies also operates the world's largest chain of automotive tire and service centers. Guided by its One Team, One Planet message, the company is dedicated to achieving a positive environmental impact in all of the communities it calls home.
SOURCE Bridgestone Americas, Inc.

For further information: Media Center, 877-201-2373
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Unread 03-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #38
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i've driven the high Sierra's to the White mountains over the past 50 years or so.
25 (and counting) far northern Minnesota winters since i moved here. usually 6-7 months of ice, snow, and spring time mud.
no, i don't air down. never have, never will.
always been able to get to where i need to be, when i need to be there.
i've always believed it's not what you drive (including tire pressures), but how you drive that matters most.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 04:29 PM   #39
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Bridgestone myth #1 and myth #3 they talk about the importance of the tire being flexible.

Then myth #4 they say do not air down, which as we all know, airing down increases the flexibility of the tire.

Seems kind of contradicting to me.

I doubt you will find any tire manufacturer who recommends airing down for street driving after the whole Explorer/Firestone fiasco.

Not sure how we can solve this debate. Maybe we need to do several timed runs for a specified distance. See which air pressure results in the fastest time. I'm all for doing some racing on the frozen lakes. I suspect it would vary based on the tire.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 05:09 PM   #40
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We won't resolve it because a lot of people have opinions based on what they've always done, or what they read online.

If people would try it, test it, then they'd have an opinion based on the experience of having tried it.

Wilson may well be correct about dedicated "Winter only" tires. I don't know.

I know airing down AS and AT has helped me during Winter snow or ice storms.

So I think I'm talking apples and Wilson is talking oranges. We could both be correct for the type tires each of us is talking about.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 05:32 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Thank you for your correction.

Still, airing down is counterproductive. All wide tire cars do poorly in the snow. Whether it is a Camaro, a Corvette, or a Suburu WRX. A larger.wider contact patch is a problem, not a solution.
My Oldsmobile Intrigue was amazing in the snow with a set of Dunlop winter tires (225/60/16).

Up to a certain depth, I'm sure a narrow tire would be better. But unless you find a narrow rim for your vehicle and get a proper sized tire you will not be able to go too much more narrow then stock. Having a good set of winters does make a difference. The tires on the Oldsmobile were much wider then the ones we have on the Corolla. I put a different brand of tire on the Corolla so I can't make a direct comparison for that.

A Corvette would suck in the snow mainly because of the large wide performance tire. 911's have wide tires but do get used in the snow.

James
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Unread 03-09-2014, 05:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexin View Post
My Oldsmobile Intrigue was amazing in the snow with a set of Dunlop winter tires (225/60/16).

Up to a certain depth, I'm sure a narrow tire would be better. But unless you find a narrow rim for your vehicle and get a proper sized tire you will not be able to go too much more narrow then stock. Having a good set of winters does make a difference. The tires on the Oldsmobile were much wider then the ones we have on the Corolla. I put a different brand of tire on the Corolla so I can't make a direct comparison for that.

A Corvette would suck in the snow mainly because of the large wide performance tire. 911's have wide tires but do get used in the snow.

James
I didn't drive my 911 very often in the snow, but the rear engine is what made it go well. And, for a RWD vehicle, all it needs is 300 pounds of sand bags in the trunk to get the same balance over the drive wheels as a FWD has. My winter DD is an old Mercedes 300SEL (known to be awful in the snow and ice) with 4 studded snow tires and 5 bags of play sand (nice and clean in case it leaks) in the trunk. Goes anywhere.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 06:07 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
I didn't drive my 911 very often in the snow, but the rear engine is what made it go well. And, for a RWD vehicle, all it needs is 300 pounds of sand bags in the trunk to get the same balance over the drive wheels as a FWD has. My winter DD is an old Mercedes 300SEL (known to be awful in the snow and ice) with 4 studded snow tires and 5 bags of play sand (nice and clean in case it leaks) in the trunk. Goes anywhere.
My point is the tire makes more difference then the tread width in my opinion.

I have experience driving with all seasons (I call them three seasons) and I know that I don't want my kids in a car during the winter with all seasons on it.

I haven't in years but I used to use sand bags as well. And I would put them in bags and tape them up to keep them from spilling in the trunk.

James
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Unread 03-09-2014, 07:45 PM   #44
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Sand spilled in trunk is nasty of a mess. Especially in my area where our sand is volcanic ash.
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Unread 03-09-2014, 08:26 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
Sand spilled in trunk is nasty of a mess. Especially in my area where our sand is volcanic ash.
The "play sand" at Walmart was $5 for a 50# bag and it is pure clean quartz sand. It does spill but vacuums up well. And, although I've never had to use, it, 300# of sand will go a long way toward getting out of an icy patch. People say use kitty litter, but it is expensive and if it is not well below freezing it is just clay and turns slicker than snot.
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