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Unread 01-12-2015, 12:05 PM   #1
jbizub5192
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ZJ Power Steering pump brands?

Hi everyone, I recently replaced power steering pump in about 5 months ago from advance auto with a Cardone reman. I am about to go on my 3rd one already. The first died within 2 miles the next worked ok for a few months. My steering is hard to turn at idle but if i raise the rpm to 2k it is nice an easy like it should be. I think the pump is just weak. My gearbox is fairly new (within 5 months) and I did the durango swap gearbox. I have 31 tires but it still shouldn't be that hard to turn at idle? Anyways what are some good pump brands? I know Mopar remans but I have also read that they aren't that good anymore ether. Thanks for the help!

p.s. The fluid is all new also

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Unread 01-12-2015, 10:13 PM   #2
AVR2
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If you want to get a brand-new pump, I think you just have to spend several hundred dollars on something from PSC or one of the handful of other respected aftermarket builders. Otherwise, your only option is remans.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 12:31 AM   #3
Uniblurb
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Part of the problem with reman pumps is you don't know what it came off of and it would be rare to get one which came off of a 98 5.9. Different pumps have different flow rates. The flow control orifice screws into the top of the pump, has a big nut on it with notches, and the high pressure hose fitting screws into the top of it.

I read once you should make sure you get a pump with the same amount of notches on this flow control orifice nut since the different amount of notches equals different flow rates. Or remove the old flow control orifice from from the pump core you're turning in and install it in your new reman pump. I wish I would have done this since I had a HD pump, which came with the tow package, and after I bought a regular reman NAPA pump it's turned hard ever since.

I've heard others on here mention the PSC brand AVR2 posted a link to.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 04:36 AM   #4
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AGR, PSC, Crown, Mopar
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Unread 01-13-2015, 09:29 AM   #5
jbizub5192
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Thanks everyone for the info. I was wondering about the flow rate and just thought that they all would be almost the same. If the flow valve is just one small hole couldn't you just get a small drill bit and make the whole a little bigger to increase flow? I did not take out that valve so I am not sure exactly what it looks like. Also what exactly makes these remans fail besides bearings. I saw some videos online that looks like the pump is made up of a metal disc with groves cut into it. I doubt the metal fails being though it is so thick?
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Unread 01-13-2015, 12:32 PM   #6
Uniblurb
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Here's some info on power steering pumps per page 19-4. In the diagnosis section (not shown) they say one of the things which can make the wheels hard to turn is a flow control valve. This must mean if it's faulty or the wrong one.

What's confusing under the pump description is they mention the flow control orifice and then go onto say the pressure relief valve is inside of the flow control valve. I'm not sure if the flow control valve is another internal part or this valve and the flow control orifice are one in the same? Note in bold print where it says pumps are not interchangeable since they have different flow rates.

Since pump pressure is supposed to be constant I don't think you're supposed to have to rev the rpms from idle to turn the wheels easier even with big tires and the durango box. Unless the pump may somehow be restricted in regards to flow.

I wish I could find that thread/post again which mentions the number of notches on the flow control orifice nut equals different diameter openings for flow rates but I can't. Even remember the author; hardrocknroll.

In looking up pumps on Rockauto they're showing 3 different Cardone reman ones for the 98 5.9. Makes me wonder jbizub5192 if Advance is selling you the right one?

I wouldn't try drilling any hole in the orifice since it may really screw things up. Since you're on your 3rd Cardone pump you could contact/email tech support at the below address and ask them about the correct pump along with notches on the orifice nut for correct flow rates. Believe I'd count the number of vertical notches on your orifice nut first while telling them everything's stock on your 98 if they ask.

tech@cardone.com?subject=Tech%20Ques...0 Cardone.com

Or you could say heck with it and just buy a better/pricy pump of one of the brand names mentioned. Good luck.
zj-power-steering-pump-p.19-4-640x500.jpg

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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 03:18 PM   #7
jbizub5192
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My current pump works when it wants to so I am going to doing something about soon. Really at idle is my only time it is hard to turn sometimes. I love all the info you posted! Definitely a big help. The different pumps rock auto lists are ether with the reservoir and without. Also some include their magna pure filter. I double checked with advance and rockauto and it is the same part I got. Do you know who originally makes the pumps? Delco, Delphi etc.? I would love to just buy the flow valve. I looked up my jeeps part manual and it doesn't list any part number for the flow valve unfortunately.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 05:51 PM   #8
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Unread 01-13-2015, 05:55 PM   #9
MurdaJs
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Edit: wrong thread
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Unread 01-13-2015, 07:14 PM   #10
jbizub5192
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I just found this link about modifying the pump output. Might be worth doing.

http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...rsteering.html
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Unread 01-13-2015, 08:53 PM   #11
Uniblurb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbizub5192 View Post
My current pump works when it wants to so I am going to doing something about soon. Really at idle is my only time it is hard to turn sometimes. I love all the info you posted! Definitely a big help. The different pumps rock auto lists are ether with the reservoir and without. Also some include their magna pure filter. I double checked with advance and rockauto and it is the same part I got. Do you know who originally makes the pumps? Delco, Delphi etc.? I would love to just buy the flow valve. I looked up my jeeps part manual and it doesn't list any part number for the flow valve unfortunately.
No problem. I went back to Rockauto and see what you're saying about the pumps being the same. I also saw this pump fits the V8 Durango and too bad you couldn't have removed the high pressure fitting/flow control valve from that pump when you got your box. But I'm sure you didn't know you were going to have so many problems with your pumps back then.

I've located a couple of the Mopar online sites which sell the flow control valve as a separate part but unfortunately only for the 4.0. Don't know why they don't list these parts for the V8 in the below diagram from the parts list I have either? #12 is listed as the valve but only show it for the 2.5 & 4.0. Older 94-96 parts list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbizub5192 View Post
I just found this link about modifying the pump output. Might be worth doing.

http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...rsteering.html
Not sure if I'd trust driving down the road with this mod if the guy said he blew the whole top of the pump off just in his shop?

Curious if you've used the same OE pulley on all 3 reman pumps? Thought maybe if you bought a replacement pulley it could be a littler larger/smaller than OE causing the pump pressure to be too low?

Here's the diagram mentioned
zj-power-steering-pump-parts-breakdown-94-96-parts-list-p.19-510-640x500.jpg

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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 09:28 PM   #12
jbizub5192
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This info defiantly helps a lot! I wish I still had my old pump to use the control valve from it. Never though I would have this many problems. Why did the Jeep 5.2/ 5.9 get a different pump then the Durangos from the same year? I wonder if a Durango pump will work. It seems the Durango pump is very common and used on many different vehicles. But the Jeep pump seems only to be used on the Jeep 5.2/5.9, I cant even find any info on this pump. If the engine is the same for both vehicles(which it is) why would they change the pump? I also found another website that is a bit clearer on the pump pressure modification. http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articl...rsteeringmods/
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Unread 01-13-2015, 09:32 PM   #13
MurdaJs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbizub5192 View Post
This info defiantly helps a lot! I wish I still had my old pump to use the control valve from it. Never though I would have this many problems. Why did the Jeep 5.2/ 5.9 get a different pump then the Durangos from the same year? I wonder if a Durango pump will work. It seems the Durango pump is very common and used on many different vehicles. But the Jeep pump seems only to be used on the Jeep 5.2/5.9, I cant even find any info on this pump. If the engine is the same for both vehicles(which it is) why would they change the pump? I also found another website that is a bit clearer on the pump pressure modification. http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articl...rsteeringmods/
The dodge pump bracket is massive, different metal pulley as well. Too big for a ZJ engine bay. I made it fit by smashing down the hoses at the steering gear and clearancing the pump bracket but pre running cracked it so I went back to stock ZJ pump.

And I don't have problems turning 33s with my stock pump. If yours can't turn 31s at idle id imagine something is wrong with the pump, not the design of the pump needing modification
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Unread 01-14-2015, 09:39 PM   #14
jbizub5192
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Ok so today i picked up another zj pump as well as a durango pump. I wanted to compare the control valves between them. The durango control valve has a 1/8 orifice where as the Jeep pump was 7/64. I figured my old pump was on its way out so I couldn't do much harm to it anymore. I drilled the orifice to 9/64. The max from the articles I posted said 5/32. What a difference!!!!!! It is so much easier to turn the wheels at idle. The absolute easiest I ever felt the Jeeps wheels turn before. I could only imagine what it would be if I had a new pump. I will defiantly put my drilled orifice on the new pump. For right now I am going to keep my old pump on and wait till the weather gets warmer out to change it out. It also reduced my steering whine. It is a world of difference!!

Here are my comparisons between the Durango and Jeep control valves.

Main fitting (The part the hose screws into)- The durango has a larger nut which would not fit clear the plastic reservoir on the Jeep. The thread is the same so theoretically it would fit if it wasn't for the Jeeps reservoir getting in the way.

Big spring that sits below the control valve- The dodge spring is slightly longer then the Jeeps spring.

The control valve itself- The dodge had a physically longer control valve by about a 1/4 inch. There were also 2 shims inside the control valve.The Jeep pump did not have this.


I also compared the new Jeep pump to my old pump and everything was the same,(even the orifice before I drilled it). The quality of the remans are not the best and I saw that first hand. First off the new Jeep pump had a casting problem on the control valve.One of the passages was partially blocked(they should have cleaned that before assembling).Also the big spring was different between my old pump and the new one.My pump had a bigger spring.The new pump had a smaller spring. I mean the differences was small by like .1
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Unread 01-14-2015, 10:55 PM   #15
Kolak
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Crown still has some brand new ZJ pumps. As others have said, the quality of remans is very spotty. If anyone wants a price, just send me a PM.
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