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Unread 06-07-2011, 07:12 AM   #16
phbrown
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Thank you Tally and RM

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Unread 06-07-2011, 08:24 AM   #17
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Yeah, recovery points aren't something to be taken or built lightly. Because when they fail, they REALLY fail. I've seen a few shoddy mounts break and send things flying.
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Unread 06-07-2011, 05:25 PM   #18
TallyZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
Not often I agree with tally, this is one of those times. He pretty much nailed it.

It should be a piece of 3/4 or 1" stock run through the bumper and incorporated into the mount system so the load goes directly to the frame instead of the bumper. It would be welded front and rear to the plate. If you used box it would go all the way through. And should be welded 4-6" deep along the bumper mount tabs.
I don't remember us ever really disagreeing? Maybe a couple times but hey, I don't know everything, and I may have been in the wrong. I seem to agree with most posts you make. I think most of your advice is pretty solid.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 01:13 PM   #19
zjaholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
Don't use those rings for recovery. You may kill someone.
they are rated 15,000 pounds and welded pretty deep into 9/16 channel iron... they will hold.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 04:14 PM   #20
ratmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjaholic View Post
they are rated 15,000 pounds and welded pretty deep into 9/16 channel iron... they will hold.
It's built just plain wrong to handle the loads. No matter how good you think you welded it, and you didn't, it can't be made to handle a pull when built like that.

Those of us telling you not to use them have seen what happens when your tow points fail. People in the way get hurt.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 04:34 PM   #21
mike_breaker_5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjaholic View Post
they are rated 15,000 pounds and welded pretty deep into 9/16 channel iron... they will hold.
no they won't.

those rings may be rated at 15k but the way they are mount is not going to hold those kinds of loads. as stated twice before frame tie-ins are best.

they may stand a snowballs chance if back mounted, welded, and bolted, but even then after a few really good jerks you would start to see stress showing on the ring keeper portion of the back plate, if not a full failure. also remember the second you touched a welding rod to that steel you changed the strength of the steel entirely.

there are reasons everyone that actually plans on hooking to a recovery point with the intention of pulling on something uses 3/4" solid steel recovery points welded through their bumper on both sides and mounted to the frame if at all possible as well.

see those mounts top center of the picture? you want something that looks like those and the shackles attached to them as a recovery point.

EDIT: those mounts are made from a solid piece of 1" bar stock milled with a step to be welded to the face of the bumper, then proceed through the back, welded there as well, and were to get bolted to the frame but were too short (i have since changed my design and may not even be using them at all in favor of finding a way to tie into the frame)


take the heed of some people with a little experience. i am by far the best welder in the world (ask ratmonkey) but when it comes to afro american engineering i have pretty much seen it all. please, for the love of whatever poor soul trusts those mounts enough to let you hook them to his rig, re-think your recovery points and listen to those telling you they are dangerous.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 09:09 PM   #22
ratmonkey
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Want to give me those shackle mounts mike? I need to start on my rear bumper at some pont.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 09:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallyZJ View Post
I don't remember us ever really disagreeing? Maybe a couple times but hey, I don't know everything, and I may have been in the wrong. I seem to agree with most posts you make. I think most of your advice is pretty solid.
Get a room!
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Unread 06-08-2011, 09:58 PM   #24
TallyZJ
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Get a room!
No way! I was told that ratmonkey touched Anthony's Wiener!
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Unread 06-08-2011, 10:16 PM   #25
ratmonkey
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No way man, that dude has a 15 gallon head. He's like a peanuts character with that mellon.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 10:52 PM   #26
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i'm hearing talk about melons, peanuts and head... this guy is taking a step back.

monkey there's about a 50/50 chance i'm not using those mounts. let me figure out the no sparky problem and get the jeep running again before i make any decisions. i can always have dixon113a make you another set, after all i know him rather well and he would be more than willing to make you a set. i will need another set for my front bumper anyhow hen i get around to fabbing the front bumper.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 11:07 PM   #27
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When I first saw flat iron in the thread title I was like, "here we go, another redneck bumper build," but was surprised that it looks pretty reasonable.

At 5/16" thick it must be heavy!

I don't necessarily see a problem with the recovery points. Its conceptually similar to my Hanson bumper shown below; the recovery tabs are welded to the bumper structure without any additional backing structure tieing them into the uni-frame. All of the recovery force must pass through the bumper. And my bumper is constructed from 3/16".

The important consideration is mounting the recovery shackles so that their line of action passes through the centerline of the uni-frames as closely as possible. Vertical alignment with the uni-frame minimizes twisting of the flat iron which is relatively weak in torsion (just about every bumper design thats out there is weak in torsion for that matter). Horizontal alignment with the uni-frame tends to minimize bending of the bumper structure since the recovery points are now (typically) mounted directly in front of the bumper mounting brackets.

Notice that the recovery points on my Hanson bumper are attached at the same height as the uni-frame and just slightly inside the bumper mounting brackets (a single 1/4" plate located where the front of the bumper bends and attached to the outside of the uni-frame rail.)

Looking at the recovery points on the OP's bumper it appears that they are a little below and a little (if any) inside the uni-frame rails. Considering that the bumper is made from 5/16" I can't image a problem assuming that the welds are adequate.

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Unread 06-08-2011, 11:12 PM   #28
ratmonkey
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I haven't seen a front hanson, but I have seen several rear and the shackle mounts are integrated with the bumper mounts.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 11:18 PM   #29
TallyZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technohead View Post
When I first saw flat iron in the thread title I was like, "here we go, another redneck bumper build," but was surprised that it looks pretty reasonable.

At 5/16" thick it must be heavy!

I don't necessarily see a problem with the recovery points. Its conceptually similar to my Hanson bumper shown below; the recovery tabs are welded to the bumper structure without any additional backing structure tieing them into the uni-frame. All of the recovery force must pass through the bumper. And my bumper is constructed from 3/16".

The important consideration is mounting the recovery shackles so that their line of action passes through the centerline of the uni-frames as closely as possible. Vertical alignment with the uni-frame minimizes twisting of the flat iron which is relatively weak in torsion (just about every bumper design thats out there is weak in torsion for that matter). Horizontal alignment with the uni-frame tends to minimize bending of the bumper structure since the recovery points are now (typically) mounted directly in front of the bumper mounting brackets.

Notice that the recovery points on my Hanson bumper are attached at the same height as the uni-frame and just slightly inside the bumper mounting brackets (a single 1/4" plate located where the front of the bumper bends and attached to the outside of the uni-frame rail.)

Looking at the recovery points on the OP's bumper it appears that they are a little below and a little (if any) inside the uni-frame rails. Considering that the bumper is made from 5/16" I can't image a problem assuming that the welds are adequate.

If I am seeing the OP's recovery rings correctly the only thing that is keeping them secured to the 5/16" plate is the weld bead that surrounds the mount. I don't understand how the tabs, even if mounted with a "correct line of action" to the center rails would even matter if none of the force is directly passing INTO the center line of the rails. If they pull away from the face metal of the bumper plate, end of action. Period.

Any serious tension against these mounts can peel them away from the face of the 5/16" plate. They do not look solidly mounted to me unless they are indeed welded through and into the back side of the bumper plate. Even then the quality of the weld bead would make a great deal of difference in the strength.

Mounting tabs for recovery rings cannot tell the difference in 1/4" plate and 3/8" plate. They can and will peel away from the metal plate they are welded too if there is no substantial anchoring other than a simple weld bead around their perimeter.
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Unread 06-08-2011, 11:38 PM   #30
mike_breaker_5
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op's bumper will fail in a recovery. stop denying it, and for gods sake don't compare a solid mounted clevis mount to a piece of sheet welded to another piece of sheet, the welds will fail plain and simple. lets stop all the debate and go yank on the darn bumper for gods sake. holy crap people it's a poor design and needs re-worked!
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
5.2lswap, metalcloaks, bedliner, tucked belly, d60's, soon to be nv4500 and d300.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...r-junk-990191/
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