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Unread 12-16-2007, 05:59 PM   #16
kenbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples
If I'm not mistaken, the Rusty's exhaust is just the muffler and tailpipe.
it comes with the intermediate pipe, muffler and tailpipe and clamps.

i'd say if you'r just looking for a throaty sound the Rustys with a Flowmaster 50 is fine.

if the most performance is what you're after buy the entire Kolak system.

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Unread 12-16-2007, 09:20 PM   #17
bbehnke
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do you think that the headers would make much of a difference in performance? or would it be just as good just getting the cat and back system?
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Unread 12-16-2007, 09:47 PM   #18
Redbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenbuck
...a regular bender, makes wrinkles when it bends the pipe, reducing the diameter and smoothness of the bend and hurting the flow. ...i dont know of any after-market exhaust company that sells anything "crush-bent."
That may have some truth for race cars, with extremely high-output engines, but it's certainly NOT true for an I6 Grand Chero.

I have the advantage over you here: I have built exhaust systems and tested them on real-world vehicles, on the road, on a chassis dyno, and on an exhaust system flow bench.

The differences I saw between a reasonably well-made "open-bend" system ("open-bend" being the correct technical description for the common non-mandrel-bend exhaust pipe) and a mandrel-bent system is less than the test-to-test variability, less than 2% for most common automobiles.

That means less than plus OR MINUS 4 hp on a WJ 6-cylinder; having done extensive dyno testing on production engines, I defy you accurately measure a difference that small, and I know you'd never detect it in any real-world operation.

To prove this point, I developed an open-bend system for GM for the LT-5 "ZR-1" Corvette in 1992; it tested exactly the same as the mandrel-bend system that GM had in production at that time on a 475 HP Lingenfelter-modified car.

Most of the backpressure in production exhaust systems comes not from frictional resistance in the pipes, but from what for want of a better word I call "disturbance" resistance at the places where a pipe joins another pipe of different diameter, whether larger or smaller, and where it joins to mufflers.
For example, the worst thing you can do for flow resistance is having say a 2.5" pipe join a muffler with 2.25" inlets or outlets - or have a 2" diameter passage tube in a muffler that has 2.5" inlet and outlet nipples.

Mandrel-bending makes beautiful pipes, no question about it, but it also results in a great deal of thinning of the pipe on the outside of the bend, so it is usually not as durable, all other things (pipe material, wall thickness, pipe diameter) being equal. The thinning on the outside of the bend is occurring in part because wrinkling is NOT occurring on the inside of the bend.
And it also results in rather expensive pipes.

Now, if spending money is your objective, by all means go right ahead, but if a hotrod WJ is what you really have to have, that 6-cylinder engine just isn't going to do it - not by changing the exhaust pipe anyway.
Wanna go fast?
Trade it in on a V8, and you'll instantly have something that'll outrun all but a race-built 6-cylinder.

As to aftermarket companies not producing open-bend pipes: that's hogwash, pure and simple. The big aftermarket exhaust commpanies, including Walker (tenneco), Maremont (AP), and Arvin all make open-bends on virtually every pipe they make, as do all the big muffler chains like Midas. The reason?
Money savings.
Tooling for a mandrel bend is very specific to not only the pipe diameter and the bend radius, but also the pipe wall thickness, and to a lesser extent, the material used. This means the guy doing mandrel bends is going to compromise somwhere, either in pipe diameter or wall thickness, or he's going to tool for only a very few specific models.

My advice?
Save your money and put it towards a good set of tires, and regular thorough maintenance. Your Grand will last much longer, and you'll like it much better.

Regards,
- R
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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:00 AM   #19
bbehnke
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well im not looking for a hot rod im just looking for a few upgrades that will give the little I6 a little more punch if i was looking for a hot rod i would throw in a 289 HYPO from a 66 mustang that we have lying around. with the exhaust now and an intake later that would surely be alot better than stock.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:43 AM   #20
madcabbie
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Seriously...it isnt going to be alot better. Your mostly going to notice the sound change. Maybe a little bit in the seat of your pants dyno...

I would go with rustys...Its something you can put on yourself. All you need is a sawzall or a Grinder to remove the old pipe and then a wrench to put on the new one with clamps. I was worried about using clamps untill my exhaust guy tried to remove them....didnt work...

I also had him throw on a stainless steel tip when he welded it all up just because the turn down that comes with rustys system was dented and rusty...You do not need to do that nor do you need to have any of it welded.

Did you listen to my clip?
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:43 AM   #21
kenbuck
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Wow Redbob. Nobody was challenging your expertise in the exhaust arena.

When I refer to "after-market" i was referring to a "performance" exhaust, not stock replacement.

I'm a glad you have dedicated your life to exhaust systems, however, i would still take a mandrel bent pipe over an "open bent" system.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 08:25 PM   #22
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcabbie

I would go with rustys...Its something you can put on yourself. All you need is a sawzall or a Grinder to remove the old pipe and then a wrench to put on the new one with clamps. I was worried about using clamps untill my exhaust guy tried to remove them....didnt work...


Either of the two options can be installed in the home driveway (Rustys or Kolak) with simple hand tools.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 08:39 PM   #23
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kind of off topic....and im expectin to get flamed a little bit. But for the I6. Whats the best option for a muffler/cat combo to straight up make alota noise. I have no intentions of racing my Jeep or any excuse to have the extra HP that you can get from a performance exhaust. I just want one thats Loud. Probably what yall would call annoying and crappy sounding. I figured a high flow cat and some kinda flow master. Or mabe no cat...or even straight pipe? Im not a fan of the whole no cat thing...but id still be cool to have people hear me commin and know its me.

Flame on
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Unread 08-17-2009, 04:31 PM   #24
Steve01WJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthteddy View Post
kind of off topic....and im expectin to get flamed a little bit. But for the I6. Whats the best option for a muffler/cat combo to straight up make alota noise. I have no intentions of racing my Jeep or any excuse to have the extra HP that you can get from a performance exhaust. I just want one thats Loud. Probably what yall would call annoying and crappy sounding. I figured a high flow cat and some kinda flow master. Or mabe no cat...or even straight pipe? Im not a fan of the whole no cat thing...but id still be cool to have people hear me commin and know its me.

Flame on
Just go high flow cat with a resonator after it....it will be loud and sound like a**.
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Unread 08-17-2009, 04:35 PM   #25
dmolaver15
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i also disagree with the super 40 sounding bad on i6's
heres mine with a 44 and a sidepipe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxpu-fXO08c
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