why all these crazy high lifts without covering the basics first? - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > ZJ Grand Cherokee Forum > why all these crazy high lifts without covering the basics first?

USA Standard Chromoly Front Axle Shaft Kits with Dana 30 4Warrior Products @ Oconee Off-Road! 706-534-9955Advance Adapters SYE Kits

Reply
Unread 06-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #31
speedbucket
Registered User
1993 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: chesapeake, VA
Posts: 3,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagsc7 View Post
Where is that, and is there somewhere that we can look the law up? I knew there were stupid politicians, but a cop that'll actually enforce "dumb dumb"laws...



Sounds like a challenge coming. I've got a Stock ZJ currently. You wanna pay for my lockers and Skid Plates? There's a lifted ZJ out here that'll EASIALLY make it further than me just due to lift. Course, when the engine gets flooded, YOU GET THE BILL.
I think he's in Iceland iirc.

And techno is right. I had trouble keeping up with a tj on 31s with a LSD/lock right 4banger combo. I had LSD/open, v8, better wheel base, bigger tires , better ground clearance and struggled in comparison.
The only variable to his advantage was a front locker, and I had more experience than him. He was a new that actually listened when he was told to but a locker first
And whiteout is spot on with the "bolt on" reference.

__________________
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/speedbuckets-zj-build-1361322/
V8 zj at 6" . Double tri rear and true 3 link front. Stretched to 108"
speedbucket is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-03-2013, 03:51 PM   #32
Trick440
Registered User
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Waterford, mi
Posts: 195
Tow points are #1... If you're stuck and have no tow point... Heh.. You're an idiot.

Winch is second. Be self sufficient. Sure someone call pull you out but the confidence and ability to take care of yourself is priceless.

Riding area plays a big roll in your choices. If your in the desert, a winch is probably not very helpful. If yiu never see rocks, skid plates could be low on the list. Etc...
Trick440 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-03-2013, 03:58 PM   #33
CrawlingForward
Rookies Happen.
 
CrawlingForward's Avatar
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Posts: 2,322
I think a lot of it (at least in the want-to-offroad crowd) is education.

When you first get into it, you don't know about lockers and winches and armor and swaybar disconnects and upgraded axles and tummy tucks and other improvements. You think doing harder stuff is just about more clearance and bigger tires, so that's what comes first.

It's only once you start wheeling that you start seeing how important (arguably *more* important, the other things are).

I *still* don't get why everyone *immediately* gets rid of perfectly good wheels though, often alloy, for those damn black steel wheels.
__________________
My Other Jeep Is A Jeep - Crawlingforward's Jeep-Related Adventures

95 YJ, Rio Grande - The Wannabe Sleeper Wheeler
2010 JKU, Islander Edition - The Burly Stock Overlander

- North Shore Jeep Club -
Build/Wheel/Break/Educate/Upgrade/Repeat
CrawlingForward is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-03-2013, 03:59 PM   #34
Technohead
Old School
 
Technohead's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Exeter, RI
Posts: 6,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick440 View Post
. . . If yiu never see rocks, skid plates could be low on the list. Etc...
Then its not REALLY wheeling!

But yea, point taken.
Technohead is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-03-2013, 05:13 PM   #35
BuzzZJ9er
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sheffield, Vt
Posts: 244
Definitely depends on your wheeling/ play grounds. Up here its some trails but some mud bogs as well. I actually held a mud bog this past weekend and saw some very capable trail rigs struggle on 33s and 35s. The guys that had no winches or skids or bumpers with 38-44s did way better!
BuzzZJ9er is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #36
underpowered
Bouncin' on a Budget
 
underpowered's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: northern kentucky
Posts: 2,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
I don't see one single reason to lift a Jeep higher than around 4". Long- arms with WB stretch, cut the sheetmetal as much as required, patch the holes and run 35s or 37s. I'd do that if a Jeep like was street-legal where I live. However, the maximum size I can run is 32s without the cops taking my plates off and giving a ticket, so that's what i run with 1.75" BB.

I guess the biggests reasons for high lifts + large tires combos are that people want bolt-on parts and they want the look of a high Jeep with big tires. A lower Jeep with wider track, proper belly protection, cut up fenders, large tires and lockers would be a lot more cabable rig in all but swamps/ mudpits though. Can be built cleanly too, but requires quite a lot of fabbing..
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technohead View Post
Posers. The most BASIC modifications you can make to any offroad rig are, in order:

1.) Lockers
2.) Skid plates

Give me these on an otherwise stock ZJ and I will make it much further down the trail than any open rig that's lifted with 33's+

agreed as well, except for the skid plates part. they are nice, and can save expensive parts, but much farther down on the list for me.


most of what i will call "mall Crawlers" are lifted big, on flashy wheels with completely bolt on stuff for the look, that is it.


IMO, any real off roader will build their rig. sure, there are guys who buy off the shelf lift kits and tons of "bolt" on goodies and can make a decently capable ride, but i truely think that if you are serious about it, you will built it custom. Not because the off the shelf stuff doesn't work, because a lot of it does, but because there is only 1 way to get exactly what you want, and that is build it yourself. In my years of wheeling, i have owned exactly 1 bolt on lift kit, and it was on a DD jeep and on it when i purchases the jeep.


my style of wheeling differs from most others i would say, there are places 31's simply will not take you, i have tried. But a locked rig on 31's-33's is plenty capable for most and will do some fairly difficult trails. But as the trails get harder, that is when you need Bigger tires, a bit more lift, and all that comes along with it. i wheeled a BB'd ZJ on 31's for years, then upgraded to 34's. yes i went more places on the 34's due to ground clearance, but i got into plenty of trouble on only 31's. now, as i said, there are places it simply would not go. No way i could go places in it i take my blazer on 38's.
__________________
1998 ZJ 2" bb and 31's. street queen but sees the woods once in a while.

2000 powerjoke tow pig

Anti-jeep--1989 K5 blazer. the new off road ride
underpowered is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 10:16 AM   #37
L_Kilkenny
Registered User
1998 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: , Iowa
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered View Post

IMO, any real off roader will build their rig. sure, there are guys who buy off the shelf lift kits and tons of "bolt" on goodies and can make a decently capable ride, but i truely think that if you are serious about it, you will built it custom. Not because the off the shelf stuff doesn't work, because a lot of it does, but because there is only 1 way to get exactly what you want, and that is build it yourself. In my years of wheeling, i have owned exactly 1 bolt on lift kit, and it was on a DD jeep and on it when i purchases the jeep.
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't know what someones ability with a welder and torch has to do with serious or not. The fact is that there are tons of very serious guys that are using nothing more than off the shelf, aftermarket stuff. Bumpers, lifts, sliders, racks, skids, anything. No, they don't have a bubba special rock buggy but that doesn't make them any less of a "real" off-roader.
L_Kilkenny is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #38
speedbucket
Registered User
1993 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: chesapeake, VA
Posts: 3,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by L_Kilkenny View Post
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't know what someones ability with a welder and torch has to do with serious or not. The fact is that there are tons of very serious guys that are using nothing more than off the shelf, aftermarket stuff. Bumpers, lifts, sliders, racks, skids, anything. No, they don't have a bubba special rock buggy but that doesn't make them any less of a "real" off-roader.
Generally deeper pockets = bolt ons. The "serious" guys I know that don't do any fabbing/installs are either disabled physically or have enough money to not care about the costs. Like I said before, the industry needs these people. And if someone is capable of doing their own work and doesn't, then they just like spending money. You can buy a welder and all the materials to build a suspension for less than the manufactured lifts costs. And truth be told if you really are serious about rig performance then bolt on/pre fab kits aren't the route to take. There is no one size fits all for suspensions. Run some of the prefab lifts through link calculators and you will come up with some far from ideal and pretty crappy numbers.
__________________
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/speedbuckets-zj-build-1361322/
V8 zj at 6" . Double tri rear and true 3 link front. Stretched to 108"
speedbucket is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 10:56 AM   #39
OldManTan
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Redlands, Ca
Posts: 276
interesting thread for sure.
I guess it depends on the owner. People Tend to "build" their vehicles over time. Some go small ergonomic features and necessities first, some go long arms and 37" tires first. Personally, I don't know how some of these 7"+ Long arm guys with open diffs and stock gearing make it to the trails with 35-37" tires and an inline 6 haha
to each his own.
OldManTan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #40
underpowered
Bouncin' on a Budget
 
underpowered's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: northern kentucky
Posts: 2,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by L_Kilkenny View Post
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't know what someones ability with a welder and torch has to do with serious or not. The fact is that there are tons of very serious guys that are using nothing more than off the shelf, aftermarket stuff. Bumpers, lifts, sliders, racks, skids, anything. No, they don't have a bubba special rock buggy but that doesn't make them any less of a "real" off-roader.
read VVV

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbucket View Post
Generally deeper pockets = bolt ons. The "serious" guys I know that don't do any fabbing/installs are either disabled physically or have enough money to not care about the costs. Like I said before, the industry needs these people. And if someone is capable of doing their own work and doesn't, then they just like spending money. You can buy a welder and all the materials to build a suspension for less than the manufactured lifts costs. And truth be told if you really are serious about rig performance then bolt on/pre fab kits aren't the route to take. There is no one size fits all for suspensions. Run some of the prefab lifts through link calculators and you will come up with some far from ideal and pretty crappy numbers.
the point i was trying to get at. sure logn arms are nice, but the radius arm style suspension is far from the best when you look at it. someone who is really serious about it would know this and 3/4 link instead of the long arm kits which are more or less radius arms.

I'm not saying there are not guys with bolt ons that don't take off roading seriously. they may not have the skills to build their own stuff or simply don't know there are better ways to do something. but if you have the coin to drop on a big long arm 7" lift, you are a pretty good ways toward paying for a custom link setup.

and yes, the industry does need these guys. a bolt on kit will satisfy 75% of jeepers out there IMO, but those other 25% are the "serious" guys i am talking about. I am of the mind set do it once, do it right. save up if you have to in order to get exactly what you want.
__________________
1998 ZJ 2" bb and 31's. street queen but sees the woods once in a while.

2000 powerjoke tow pig

Anti-jeep--1989 K5 blazer. the new off road ride
underpowered is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #41
ErikTheRad
Registered User
1993 ZJ 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marysville
Posts: 420
Quote:
Where is that, and is there somewhere that we can look the law up? I knew there were stupid politicians, but a cop that'll actually enforce "dumb dumb"laws...
HAHAHAHA!! My friend, come to California. Theres no shortage of completely inept moron politicians, laughably idiotic laws, and law enforcement officers by the thousands who have no trouble at all enforcing the nonsense.

Anyway, while it might confuse many people who are very serious about their rig and its ability to wheel effectively, the fact is that this industry relies on the "mall crawler" crowd for its black zone profits. Like it or not, those guys are the industry's bread and butter. If it were strictly the comitted off-roader buying these parts, I'm afraid the industry would likely dry up with only a handful of suppliers staying in the game on a smaller scale. So even if only for that reason, I say, "mall crawl on, brother!"
ErikTheRad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 06:30 PM   #42
eagsc7
Registered User
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sweetwater Cyt, WY
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikTheRad View Post

HAHAHAHA!! My friend, come to California. Theres no shortage of completely inept moron politicians, laughably idiotic laws, and law enforcement officers by the thousands who have no trouble at all enforcing the nonsense.

Anyway, while it might confuse many people who are very serious about their rig and its ability to wheel effectively, the fact is that this industry relies on the "mall crawler" crowd for its black zone profits. Like it or not, those guys are the industry's bread and butter. If it were strictly the comitted off-roader buying these parts, I'm afraid the industry would likely dry up with only a handful of suppliers staying in the game on a smaller scale. So even if only for that reason, I say, "mall crawl on, brother!"
LOL... I actually expected him to be from California.

Out Jeepin, usin the Mobile App
__________________
My Build Thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/steaks-zj-build-repair-thread-1552698/
eagsc7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 06:32 PM   #43
WhiteOut
Web Wheeler
 
WhiteOut's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagsc7 View Post
LOL... I actually expected him to be from California.

Out Jeepin, usin the Mobile App
He's from Finland, you had to read his post, there was no way to miss that piece of info lol.
WhiteOut is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #44
DeafJeep
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Emporium, PA
Posts: 294
Rock crawling in the Midwestern states would make sense. Here in the Northeastern states, don't see too many rock crawlers. The Jeeps up here are usually daily drivers for getting to work & home. Some Jeeps sit a little higher because of the snow especially some of the county roads are not covered by the yellow snowplow trucks run by the state's DOT.

When going to the Deep South, some Jeeps are built for the swamps. I would imagine from the Alaskan to the Californian coastline. The Jeeps are a little bit of everything including the Jeep being a daily driver to the beach in the summertime months.

IMHO , the terrain where you live dictates how you are going to build your Jeep or leave it stock like you normally would and beef up the tires.
DeafJeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-04-2013, 08:06 PM   #45
Technohead
Old School
 
Technohead's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Exeter, RI
Posts: 6,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafJeep View Post
Rock crawling in the Midwestern states would make sense. Here in the Northeastern states, don't see too many rock crawlers. . .
^^^ Sleeping during geography class?

The Northeast offers some incredible rock crawling. They don't call New Hampshire the Granite State for nuthin!!!!
Technohead is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.