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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:29 AM   #28861
Platinum5nine
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1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Middle Island, NY
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by big98tnzj View Post
The h1 was great for power and running through the sandy desert but they were comparing the new ifs wrangler to the h1 suspension. I dont think it stands a chance in hell climbing with the ifs as far as stock goes but longer control arms bj flips and spacers then it might be a decent rig but thats a lot of cash and mods and a lot easier to break on the trails

Sent from my tent in the woods using JeepForum
IFS works and it works well. The problem is lifting it. You are very limited due to how sharp an angle the shafts can be at. Now they make the drop kit that lowers everything down to keep the shafts at a good angle. WTF for? Hmm lets lift our trucks but lower the diffs? Great idea lol that should work great. The whole point is larger tires and ground clearance. Dropping the suspension down just to clear larger tires doesnt get you anywhere.

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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:31 AM   #28862
95GCL
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Location: catharpin, VIRGINIA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum5nine View Post
Id love to see the new Cherokee walk all over a ZJ in EVERY way. Never happen.
You do realize you keep saying Cherokee and we are discussing the grand cherokee (wk2) which is a completely different beast?
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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:35 AM   #28863
Platinum5nine
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1998 ZJ 
 
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Location: Middle Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95GCL View Post
You do realize you keep saying Cherokee and we are discussing the grand cherokee (wk2) which is a completely different beast?
I do realize that, neither is a beast. Yes the new WK is far more capable than the new Cherokee however neither can stand up next to a ZJ XJ TJ Im not saying that because i think both are ugly as hell and dont deserve the Jeep name, im saying that because its true. Soon enough both will be on the trails with us, the proof will be in the videos of us pulling them out of everything. They just arent built like the Jeeps of yesterday. While some things are better like the interior and the electronic toys they come with, the suspension and off road capability suffers.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:38 AM   #28864
95GCL
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Location: catharpin, VIRGINIA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum5nine View Post
I do realize that, neither is a beast. Yes the new WK is far more capable than the new Cherokee however neither can stand up next to a ZJ XJ TJ Im not saying that because i think both are ugly as hell and dont deserve the Jeep name, im saying that because its true. Soon enough both will be on the trails with us, the proof will be in the videos of us pulling them out of everything. They just arent built like the Jeeps of yesterday. While some things are better like the interior and the electronic toys they come with, the suspension and off road capability suffers.
What you're saying about them is like what people said about the zj in the 90s. Go look in the wk2 picture thread and even on YouTube there are videos proving that they can go offroad...
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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #28865
big98tnzj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum5nine View Post

IFS works and it works well. The problem is lifting it. You are very limited due to how sharp an angle the shafts can be at. Now they make the drop kit that lowers everything down to keep the shafts at a good angle. WTF for? Hmm lets lift our trucks but lower the diffs? Great idea lol that should work great. The whole point is larger tires and ground clearance. Dropping the suspension down just to clear larger tires doesnt get you anywhere.
The ifs does work but the angles of the cv shaft limit the amount of lift. I had 8 inches under my isuzu trooper and i had the drop brackets on my front diff. It wasnt bad on small trails but the bigger ones it started suffering because the angles were so severe it kept binding on me and i usually broke a shaft about every other trip. The straight axle is far superior to the ifs as far as lifting and offroad but the ifs offers better drivability and softer ride.

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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:47 AM   #28866
Platinum5nine
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Sure they can go offroad, so can a prius as proven by the guys on Top Gear when they drove it through the desert in Utah. Doesnt make it a good idea lol. Can it go through a little water, a little mud, a small rock, sure it can. Can it take the abuse of a ZJ or XJ? Nope it cant. Will a ZJ or XJ wipe it's undercarage with it? Absolutely will. We can go back and forth here all day, im getting tired of it though. You have your opinion, i have mine. If you love it so much why not sell your ZJ and buy one?
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Unread 12-24-2013, 07:51 AM   #28867
TurboTPI
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^agree 100%! There is no way in hell a new Grand Cherokee or Cherokee is as durable as a the old versions. (ZJ and XJ) You cant beat the durability of solid axles. End of story.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 08:04 AM   #28868
big98tnzj
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If the ifs is such a better suspension then why have all of the early jeeps fords chevys and dodges all come with straight axle with manual locking hubs? Straight axle will always be superior no matter what

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Unread 12-24-2013, 08:25 AM   #28869
GreenLeader
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I changed my starter in a grocery store parking lot last night.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #28870
comptiger5000
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1998 ZJ 
 
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For those who insist a stock ZJ is so durable, try actually wheeling one any bit hard without a lift. You're gonna do damage. On my last trip out (I'm stock height with barely taller than stock tires), I bent an LCA, smashed the y-pipe for my headers a bit, dented the muffler, broke the clips off a rocker cover, dented a rocker slightly, dented a pinch weld a little and scraped the hell out of the bottom of the D44a (enough that the cover is leaking slightly and needs to be re-sealed). Oh, and I also dented the trans crossmember slightly (and bent it into a slightly trapezoidal shape). And yes, I got it stuck once.

Plain and simple, if you push it hard, any of these vehicles will come out with battle scars and get stuck at some point. They'll just come out with different broken parts and get stuck on different obstacles. Just look at what some of the Liberty guys go through with IFS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by big98tnzj View Post
If the ifs is such a better suspension then why have all of the early jeeps fords chevys and dodges all come with straight axle with manual locking hubs? Straight axle will always be superior no matter what

Sent from my tent in the woods using JeepForum
Solid axles are simple and cheap, that's why. And for rocks and such, they work well. On the street, or for higher speed off-road stuff, a well designed independent setup will usually work better.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 09:07 AM   #28871
PolkaPower
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1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss, MD
Posts: 16,224
The Trail Hawk comes factory with full skids including rockers, front and rear hill climb and descent controls, 11" of adjustable clearance, the best 4x4 system offered by Jeep with 2.92-1 low range gearing quadra track II or quadra drive II, approach and departure angles of 30*, increased motor and transmission cooling, locking rear diff, beefed up tires, 9 speed transmission, and a v8 with 360 hp, and it's built more solidly.
It's better on road and off road than any ZJ ever was.

It has done the Rubicon Trail STOCK from the factory successfully and has been tested in Moab. No ZJ can do that. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, those are the facts. Despite that it's fairly ugly, it outperforms any Grand Cherokee Jeep has made from the factory off road.

Toyota, Nissan, HUMVEE, and a few others have been using IFS for years and I have seen plenty of capable rigs with IFS. Most of you won't even go on trails that it would make a difference on wether you had a SFA or IFS.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 09:14 AM   #28872
zj97ltd
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1993 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cape Coral, FLORIDA
Posts: 1,078
I actually think the new Grands look pretty nice. They're a bit softer than our ZJ's, but I sat in one the other day and oh man they're comfy. It's the new Cherokee that I'm not too crazy about. The Cherokee Trail Hawk that was next to me was noticeably taller than my stock ZJ and without pumpkins and straight shafts hanging down low I'm sure it has it beat in ground clearance. But good luck doing your own wrenching on one, that's part of why I like my old school ZJ. If it breaks (and it will), I can fix it.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 09:15 AM   #28873
big98tnzj
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: elizabethton, tn
Posts: 841
The front and rear hill descent and other offroad options tha t it has takes the fun out of climbing and wheeling. If i was going to push a button and sit and turn the steering wheel then i might as well sit on my couch and play playstation.

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Unread 12-24-2013, 09:23 AM   #28874
PolkaPower
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Location: The Abyss, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big98tnzj View Post
The front and rear hill descent and other offroad options tha t it has takes the fun out of climbing and wheeling. If i was going to push a button and sit and turn the steering wheel then i might as well sit on my couch and play playstation.

Sent from my tent in the woods using JeepForum
Again that is just another opinion. It does nothing to counter the fact that it is a much more capable 4x4 from the factory.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 10:58 AM   #28875
TurboTPI
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1995 ZJ 
 
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Location: Bensenville, Il
Posts: 569
Let us now how your trail hawk looks and runs in 20yrs with 250,000 miles plus. I will get in my ZJ and drive it anywhere with out worries.
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02 WJ Limited 4.7l HO-stock (Hers)
95 ZJ 4.0 Turbo-up 5.5 on 33x12.5's, Ford 8.8 w/Artec truss (His)
92 Firebird Formula custom turbo setup (His)
09 Polaris Dragon 800 (His)
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