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Unread 06-10-2007, 11:17 AM   #1
Aceladriver
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The V8 5spd ZJ question

Hate to beat what may be considered a dead horse around here but does anyone have any conversion info on putting a manual trans into a 5.2 or 5.9 ZJ?

I've done a bunch of searching on it and all I found was this...
S C started to do a conversion but temporarily put it back to stock from the last post I saw. S C, did you ever finish it?
wheelup1 at JU had a completed and running 5.9 conversion but I don't think he ever posted a full writeup on it. Pretty sure he sold it a year or so back.

I've seen lots of great 5 spd conversion info from Woody and others but I'm pretty sure it's all been related to I6 motors.

I have a 93 5.2 and a 98 5.9 ZJs. Tempted to do the 5.9, the 5.2 was "rode hard and put away wet" so that's just a backup driver. I know the OBDII thing has it's own set of problems associated with that swap.

Any info would be greatly appreciated - JC

BTW - A much less practical idea.. Has anyone ever stuffed a Mopar big block into a ZJ? If that idea is considered a sacrilege forget I ever brought it up :-)

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Unread 06-10-2007, 12:06 PM   #2
hckypro19ja
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http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9489

one of our moderators tim has done a 5 speed conversion for his 94 5.2, but his build maybe more than what your looking for
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1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Quadratrac, 5.2 V8, UC skids and tow package, 32 inch bfg m/t on procomp steelies, flowmaster 40 series, Rancho ss, skyjacker 3" lift, teraflex adjustable trackbar, zactal roof rack
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Unread 06-10-2007, 12:30 PM   #3
Sporer65
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You need a NV3500 or NV4500 5-speed from a Dodge. Can't remember which one. You will also need all other parts associated with a manual transmission. You will need a new crossmember as well. The get a clutch pedal and all other manual transmission parts from a 93/94 ZJ. After that. just cut open the where the shifter is for the boot. That should be it but I'm not sure.

And as for the big block, I doubt it. Although it would be very cool, there just isn't enough room. The 5.2/5.9 is already shoehorned in there, anything wider even with the lowest profile headers, I still don't think would fit.
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Unread 06-10-2007, 12:54 PM   #4
hckypro19ja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporer65

And as for the big block, I doubt it. Although it would be very cool, there just isn't enough room. The 5.2/5.9 is already shoehorned in there, anything wider even with the lowest profile headers, I still don't think would fit.
hmmm i smell a challenge....
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Unread 06-10-2007, 11:18 PM   #5
ras2001wj
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NV 3500 is a great tranny, and hauls ***** with a 318 and 3.73's
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Unread 06-13-2007, 05:36 PM   #6
Aceladriver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckypro19ja
hmmm i smell a challenge....
Here's how I came up with that idea...

I have two ZJs, a 5.9 and a 93 5.2.
The 5.2 was great for the 6 years I drove it.
Now - It has 207K miles, needs: Radiator, wiper switch. Infinity gold stereo is dead, drivers window needs bonding to track. Lots of little stuff.
Front end was knocked off by a red light runner (creamed him!) Whole front end was replaced except hood and left fender. A good job til I slammed my hood closed a year later and it broke the mounts for the grille and headlights!
Rear bumper taken off by a hit and run and the rear wheel wells are rusted through.

So.. I have this ZJ that actually looks good in spite of all the stuff I mentioned.
It's not worth fixing it to sell it. You could buy something ten times better for $1500.
It's not worth much as a parts car, who needs a drivetrain with 207K on it?!?!
In other words, I have it. I own it and it's not worth a damn thing to anybody but me.

So, in my idle time I start getting evil ideas :-)
I see an old New Yorker for short money. Hmmm, I say. How many times did I stuff a 440 or 413 into something else? (close to a dozen times)
Then I think: How hard would it be to mouse it into a ZJ, automatic and all?
Then I think: The 4WD is a whole other problem. But wait!! Don’t they have 2WD ZJs? A straight front axle with a big block. Old school musclecar!!
Then I think: If I want to do all this shouldn’t I just get a Mopar musclecar?
Then I think: Well, if I could afford a muscle car wouldn’t I already have one?
Then I think: I have a bad headache, I’m going to go watch cartoons on adultswim.

There you have it folks, one mans decent into ZJ madness.

In all seriousness though, I’m thinking the unibody construction is the main thing standing in the way of that project. That and MA emissions testing. Doubt I'll ever get around to trying it.

Hope you got a laugh at least - JC
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Unread 06-13-2007, 06:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckypro19ja
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9489

one of our moderators tim has done a 5 speed conversion for his 94 5.2, but his build maybe more than what your looking for

WOW! I just checked out that site.
Not only is it a great project but what a great tech writeup!

Ya, it's way more than I want to do plus I'd be going in a whole different direction.

I was thinking of aiming for a slight lowering and bigger brakes too. Street style.
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Unread 06-13-2007, 06:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceladriver
So, in my idle time I start getting evil ideas :-)
I see an old New Yorker for short money. Hmmm, I say. How many times did I stuff a 440 or 413 into something else? (close to a dozen times)
Then I think: How hard would it be to mouse it into a ZJ, automatic and all?
Then I think: The 4WD is a whole other problem. But wait!! Don’t they have 2WD ZJs? A straight front axle with a big block. Old school musclecar!!
Then I think: If I want to do all this shouldn’t I just get a Mopar musclecar?
Then I think: Well, if I could afford a muscle car wouldn’t I already have one?
Then I think: I have a bad headache, I’m going to go watch cartoons on adultswim.
Haha, yeah, I think a lot of guys are like that. I am like that with cars, old bicycles sitting around my house, 4-wheelers, boats, etc., etc.
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Unread 06-13-2007, 06:15 PM   #9
hckypro19ja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceladriver
WOW! I just checked out that site.
Not only is it a great project but what a great tech writeup!

Ya, it's way more than I want to do plus I'd be going in a whole different direction.

I was thinking of aiming for a slight lowering and bigger brakes too. Street style.
if you are wanting to do more of a street style then i would check out www.jeepsunlimited.com , they are a little more street as jeep forum caters to more of the offroading type. but i still like the idea of a big block in a jeep
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Unread 06-13-2007, 06:28 PM   #10
Aceladriver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckypro19ja


if you are wanting to do more of a street style then i would check out www.jeepsunlimited.com , they are a little more street as jeep forum caters to more of the offroading type. but i still like the idea of a big block in a jeep

Hate to sound like a two timer but ya, most of the stuff I post on JF I also post on JU and vice versa.

On the big block thing - I was all excited when I first saw posts that said "BB in my Jeep" until I read them and found out they were talking about an off road suspension item :-)

Some day I may have to do some measuring on my engine compartment -maybe!
I think the 5.2 has to go back on the road while I figure out why my 5.9 doesn't have park. If it's going to need a trans, well that's when the 5spd might happen.
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Unread 06-13-2007, 07:05 PM   #11
nbjly
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I'd like to see this done, if the price is about the same as an auto rebuild I'd rather have a 5-speed.

I emailed ORM about it and they sent this reply:

We can Adapt the trans with the Motor and the transfer case .
I just do not know about the floor bore may have to cut some to make it work



Thanks
Brian Bowers
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Off-Road Motorsports,Inc.
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256-757-6155 Ext 103
256-757-5866 Fax

I saw a 5.9 on eBay awhile ago with an NV4500 and a blower but I couldn't get any details about it. In the add he said the Check Engine light stayed on and it threw codes relating to the (lack of) trans but that it didn't affect it otherwise.

On other boards I have seen a few pics of a different (I think) one, it doesn't seem to be difficult except you have to move some exhaust pipes because the starter is on the opposite side when using a Lakewood bellhousing, or maybe it was using some other OEM bellhousing. I can't find the link but he said he just used some standard bent tubing like that sold by Summit or Jeg's, he ran a pipe around the front of the oil pan. You might have to modify the trans crossmember, that should be easy.

So you're looking at this for parts -

NV 4500 / bellhousing / Xfer case adapter / shifter / clutch disk, pressure plate, flywheel, throw-out bearing / some way to operate the throw-out bearing, an internal hydraulic unit would be probably be easiest but not cheap, plus you would need a master cylinder. Some factory parts from the I6 setup might work.
A used 4500 would make it feasible, otherwise it'll cost way more than a rebuild.

I'd like a manual but the auto has lasted 155k so far, if I got half that from a rebuild it would probably take it as far as the Jeep is going, so -

So do it, take pics and write it up!!
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Unread 06-13-2007, 08:00 PM   #12
Hogweed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckypro19ja
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9489

one of our moderators tim has done a 5 speed conversion for his 94 5.2, but his build maybe more than what your looking for
i'm going to start that conversion tomorrow...i will post an update in about 3 years!! that is truly awesome!
gh
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Unread 06-13-2007, 08:16 PM   #13
Sporer65
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There are two engine swaps I would like to do. One: 5.7L or 6.1L swap. Second: V-10 from Dodge swap.
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Unread 06-13-2007, 08:45 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=nbjly]
I saw a 5.9 on eBay awhile ago with an NV4500 and a blower but I couldn't get any details about it. In the add he said the Check Engine light stayed on and it threw codes relating to the (lack of) trans but that it didn't affect it otherwise.

That would be wheelup1 at jeepsunlimited. One of his earliest 5spd posts is below

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...d.php?t=630574

He posted a lot of info on it but I don't think he did a whole writeup. He talked about sending the info to the people that were asking about it.
I've been thinking of PMing them to see if he sent that info out. Looks like his last post was a year ago (almost!)

I've seen Tim's project tortoise 5.2 swap and S C started doing the V8 swap but I don't think he finished it.
Those 3 are the only ones I'm familiar with from the JF and JU forums. I'll have to google again to see if I can find any other sources.

A large portion of the 5spd swap info from Woody and others is directly applicable even though it was written for the I6 motor.
The wrong side starter issue is one problem and I guess there can also be problems with the cranks not being drilled for pilot bushings.

When I only had the 93 5.2 ZJ I had entertained the idea of getting a complete 360Magnum/5spd/Tcase from a wrecked Dodge Laramie 1500. Even that setup seems fairly rare though.
That swap makes more sense if you're upgrading from a 5.2 or whatever. I couldn't see doing the whole deal on the 5.9 where it already has the same motor.
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Unread 06-13-2007, 09:34 PM   #15
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Even if you could just find the tranny and transfer case, it would be a good deal. The tranny might be a little longer and then you would have to move the crossmembers back, but the 241 would be work well and you won't have the starter problem.
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