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Unread 08-21-2007, 05:08 AM   #1
NuTone
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Unusual ZJ questions (keywords: daily driver, manual, sleeper).

Hi,
i had a 1995 V8 Grand Cherokee years ago and still miss the truck. Not a single problem with starting the engine (even in -22F/-30C weather), never stalled, not a single serious problem while we had it for 4 years and used it 7 days a week.
That time i was living and studying in US though and gas prices were 2-3 times lower than in Northern Europe where i'm living at the moment.
So lately i've been thinking about getting another V8 ZJ and perform a auto to manual conversion and build the engine abit (and driveline, suspension and the rest) to have a nice sleeper to hunt down those slow diesel X5-s and Land Cruisers and even fast looking but 2.5turbodiesel European sedans Don't get me wrong, we are having also a 330hp BMW in a family but love the idea of a oldlookin American ultimate sleeper you can use yeararound and on every surface.
I prefer manual tranny over auto and also manual should give better fuel economy when using it as a daily driver i quess (lot of highway driving).
Told my gf about the budget i'm planning to spend in coming summer and she gave me a green light, so this post is kinda the next step
I have done a lot research on building the engine, so there are no more questions about it now, only Jeep related stuff, hope you guys can help.

Engines, gearing and manual transmission regarding gas mleage:
Checked http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html and got engine rpm-s like those for 55mph:

Tranny: Gear: RPM: Speed: R&P ratio:
46RE 4th - 1596rpm - 55mph - 3.54 gears
t56 6th - 1318rpm - 55mph - 3.54 gears
t56 6th - 1389rpm - 55mph - 3.73 gears
t56 6th - 1527rpm - 55mph - 4.10 gears

So there would be significant drop in rpm-s using t56 or similar 6speed unit over auto.
Got 20+ on highway with 46RE and 5.2 V8 but can you guys give any estimates regarding those calculated rpm-s and 300hp 318, 350hp 360 and 350+hp 390 stroker engines? So i could choose which route to take after seeing some sobering estimates on mpg, as i said fuel here is expensive :S and would like to use the truck pretty often on highway.

The other question i had was about transfer cases, should i prefer NV249 QuadraTrac or NV242 SelecTrac for that project? Any pros and cons? And what would be good overall gearing for good off the line and not too bad high end?

Whoa, thats kinda it for now, hope you can give some advice on that topic.
Thans a lot.

Erik

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Unread 08-21-2007, 09:51 AM   #2
Sporer65
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You will have to get a lot of custom parts to make a T56 to work. A NV3500/4500 from a Dodge will bolt in better.
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Unread 08-21-2007, 10:16 AM   #3
5.9 ANDY
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get a 5.9 ZJ limited.....then do a stroker...that gives u 404 cubic inches, then get crazy cams. rocker, rod, crank shafts and all that fun stuff and u can eaisly have 500HP.


also the get the NV3500 manual tranny, it is a 5 speed.

for the t-case...i would get a 231HD out of a big doge or chevy truck.

with the kinda HP ur talking about putting in there...i recomend 4:11's...awsome low end but with ur kinda power u will keep hauling *** once u realy get going.

(BTW...i had plans to do this with my jeep also)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
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Unread 08-21-2007, 10:17 AM   #4
DTJ
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forged internals on a 5.2 and some form of power adder like a turbo or nitrous would make a pretty powerful ride and be more reasonable on gas than a bigger cube motor like the 5.9 or 390 strocker motor.



you are aware they make a grand cherokee srt8 right..... thats a pretty quick ride but they are also alot of $$ and doubt you could do it for the same price as a a zj
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Unread 08-21-2007, 11:27 AM   #5
rm2001wj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuTone
...
Engines, gearing and manual transmission regarding gas mleage:
Checked http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html and got engine rpm-s like those for 55mph:

Tranny: Gear: RPM: Speed: R&P ratio:
46RE 4th - 1596rpm - 55mph - 3.54 gears
t56 6th - 1318rpm - 55mph - 3.54 gears
t56 6th - 1389rpm - 55mph - 3.73 gears
t56 6th - 1527rpm - 55mph - 4.10 gears

So there would be significant drop in rpm-s using t56 or similar 6speed unit over auto.
Got 20+ on highway with 46RE and 5.2 V8 but can you guys give any estimates regarding those calculated rpm-s and 300hp 318, 350hp 360 and 350+hp 390 stroker engines? So i could choose which route to take after seeing some sobering estimates on mpg, as i said fuel here is expensive :S and would like to use the truck pretty often on highway.

Erik
Some comments to get you to change your thinking a little.

1) For a particular engine, the power output required to keep the vehicle moving at some constant speed like 55 mph does not depend on the gears and does not depend on engine rpms. For lower fuel consumption, you need to improve engine efficiency so that less fuel is needed to produce the power needed to keep the vehicle moving. If the engine is more efficient at some particular engine speed, then thatís the engine speed that needs to be the target when choosing the gear ratio.
2) Engine horsepower ratings are always the maximum power produced by the engine, usually at some relatively high engine speed, with a load on the engine, and very importantly with the throttle wide open. At part throttle and at modest engine speed, the power output of the engine is nowhere near the maximum output. The power required to move the vehicle at some speed like 55 mph is nowhere near the maximum output. It doesnít matter what the engine is capable of; the power output required to keep the vehicle moving at some particular speed will be the same whether the is engine rated at 300 hp, 350 hp or 350+ hp.
3) Bottom line, get the standard transmission because it might be more efficient and you like to shift gears. Use tall gears because a lower rotation speed means less wear on engine and transmission. Go with a higher hp engine because you want rapid acceleration when you push the accelerator pedal down near the floor. Whatever the choices, the fuel efficiency of your ZJ will be pretty much the same as long as your driving style is the same.
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Unread 08-21-2007, 11:50 AM   #6
5.9 ANDY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTJ
forged internals on a 5.2 and some form of power adder like a turbo or nitrous would make a pretty powerful ride and be more reasonable on gas than a bigger cube motor like the 5.9 or 390 strocker motor.



you are aware they make a grand cherokee srt8 right..... thats a pretty quick ride but they are also alot of $$ and doubt you could do it for the same price as a a zj

it would'nt be that hard 2 make a ZJ faster than a SRT-8.....if u got enough coin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
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Unread 08-21-2007, 12:32 PM   #7
98zjdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.9 ANDY
it would'nt be that hard 2 make a ZJ faster than a SRT-8.....if u got enough coin.
The srt8 would have a huge advantage of suspension tweaks that I wouldnt think would be easy to match with a mid 90's zj. Even if you had the power, I dont know if you could match the 0-60's, or 1/4 times of that of the srt8 due to the great factory engineering that went into the vehicle.

To get back on topic, I would say if you were gonna build up a motor, start with a 5.9 and work your way from there. S/C and gears would be a great cost efficient boost in power.
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Unread 08-21-2007, 12:56 PM   #8
5.9 ANDY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98zjdave
The srt8 would have a huge advantage of suspension tweaks that I wouldnt think would be easy to match with a mid 90's zj. Even if you had the power, I dont know if you could match the 0-60's, or 1/4 times of that of the srt8 due to the great factory engineering that went into the vehicle.

To get back on topic, I would say if you were gonna build up a motor, start with a 5.9 and work your way from there. S/C and gears would be a great cost efficient boost in power.

with the price a SRT-8 cost i could make a 5.9 ZJ whip its *** on a drag strip so bad, it wouldnt be funny.

dont get me wrong, the SRT-8 is fast and i like em, but a JZ cam be faster, now as far as a race track goes, the SRT-8 will win becasue the suspension is supeerior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
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Unread 08-21-2007, 01:11 PM   #9
98zjdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.9 ANDY
with the price a SRT-8 cost i could make a 5.9 ZJ whip its *** on a drag strip so bad, it wouldnt be funny.

dont get me wrong, the SRT-8 is fast and i like em, but a JZ cam be faster, now as far as a race track goes, the SRT-8 will win becasue the suspension is supeerior
Well if you put 40 thousand into a zj then of course it will be faster
But I bet you something on that sob would break every other weekend at the track. Ask me how I know, ask me.
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Unread 08-21-2007, 01:40 PM   #10
5.9 ANDY
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what would break??

use a big tranny and a HUGE front and rear axles.
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hard working private first class in the United States Marine Corps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
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