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Unread 08-21-2013, 02:17 PM   #1
ryanfuscozj
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1996 ZJ 
 
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Turbo Jeep 4.0 Questions HELP

I have a 96 4.0 zj that I'm currently trying to turbo. I have the turbo, oil lines, and gauges. I'm working on getting the piping done. I have questions that I really need answering before I start this entire process.

1. Do I need fuel management? If so, then what should I use?
2. Will my air/fuel ratio be way off with the turbo even with 24# mustang injectors?
3. Will I need to tune my PCM? If so, then how and what to use?
4. Do I need to run a wastegate/bov?
5. Will I need to retard the timing? If yes then what would the best way to do so? MSD?
6. Based on all of these factors, how much would I be in the hole money wise? I'm already nearing $500 and I am on a budget and this IS my dd...

Any help or advice in anyway is useful thank you!

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Unread 08-21-2013, 06:14 PM   #2
ZeeJay1997
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have you posted this in the advance jeep tech forum? most of us guys here are just trying to keep ours running.
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Unread 08-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #3
ryanfuscozj
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No I haven't
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Unread 08-22-2013, 10:20 AM   #4
Jeeples
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So I take it that you don't have a wideband air/fuel ratio gauge? If so you need to get one as it will be one of the most important tuning devices you will have. Ideally you would also have a way to monitor for spark knock/detonation. Not sure if a Scangauge would work on our '96 OBDII, but that would be the best way to monitor knock. Those two gauges will tell you how much fuel to add or pull, along with what changes need to be made to timing. Those two gauges alone will just about double what you've spent depending on which wideband you go with.

You have to have a way to bleed off excess boost, which means a BOV/Wastgate is absolutely necessary if you want to get any sort of longevity out of your turbo. Once again, a decent BOV/Wastegate setup is going to cost around $500.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #5
OCDComputing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanfuscozj View Post
I have a 96 4.0 zj that I'm currently trying to turbo. I have the turbo, oil lines, and gauges. I'm working on getting the piping done. I have questions that I really need answering before I start this entire process.

1. Do I need fuel management? If so, then what should I use?
2. Will my air/fuel ratio be way off with the turbo even with 24# mustang injectors?
3. Will I need to tune my PCM? If so, then how and what to use?
4. Do I need to run a wastegate/bov?
5. Will I need to retard the timing? If yes then what would the best way to do so? MSD?
6. Based on all of these factors, how much would I be in the hole money wise? I'm already nearing $500 and I am on a budget and this IS my dd...

Any help or advice in anyway is useful thank you!
Wow...you've got a LOT of work ahead of you trying to do this from scratch. Wastegate should be part of the Turbo, BOV is something that is normally on some sort of a surge tank (totally different purpose than a WG). Yes, you will need some sort of fuel/engine management system because 40mph at 0 psi is WAY different that 40mph at 10psi.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
ryanfuscozj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples
So I take it that you don't have a wideband air/fuel ratio gauge? If so you need to get one as it will be one of the most important tuning devices you will have. Ideally you would also have a way to monitor for spark knock/detonation. Not sure if a Scangauge would work on our '96 OBDII, but that would be the best way to monitor knock. Those two gauges will tell you how much fuel to add or pull, along with what changes need to be made to timing. Those two gauges alone will just about double what you've spent depending on which wideband you go with.

You have to have a way to bleed off excess boost, which means a BOV/Wastgate is absolutely necessary if you want to get any sort of longevity out of your turbo. Once again, a decent BOV/Wastegate setup is going to cost around $500.
No I don't have a wideband yet, not even sure which to buy. Air/fuel gauges are only around $50 at oreillys. I'm looking at getting a vortech fmu for fuel management. I wasn't going to run any sort of wastegate because it will only give me a certain amount of boost for the fuel I'm giving it
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Unread 08-23-2013, 07:55 PM   #7
David97
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You need a wastgate... Pretty vital part of a turbo setup.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #8
ryanfuscozj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David97
You need a wastgate... Pretty vital part of a turbo setup.
Alright well I'll run a wastegate, would the vortech fmu work for fuel management?
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #9
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanfuscozj View Post

No I don't have a wideband yet, not even sure which to buy. Air/fuel gauges are only around $50 at oreillys.
Those are narrowband AFR gauges, great for a light show but useless for tuning.

Look at either an AEM UEGO or the Innovate MTX-L for a quality wideband at a decent price. Either option will run you around $200.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:27 PM   #10
ryanfuscozj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples

Those are narrowband AFR gauges, great for a light show but useless for tuning.

Look at either an AEM UEGO or the Innovate MTX-L for a quality wideband at a decent price. Either option will run you around $200.
Alright sweet that's not too bad, how would I tune my PCM? Is that something I could do myself
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:29 PM   #11
David97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanfuscozj View Post
Alright well I'll run a wastegate, would the vortech fmu work for fuel management?
I'm not too sure on that aspect. It's been awhile since Ive done anything related to forced induction. I just remember the basics lol.

Fuel management has come along way since when I was younger and messing with the stuff. So not too sure anymore.

The guys on thespeedfeaks.net would probably be able to help you out a lot. They're more about the performance then here. Or even just a forced induction forum.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:58 PM   #12
ryanfuscozj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David97

I'm not too sure on that aspect. It's been awhile since Ive done anything related to forced induction. I just remember the basics lol.

Fuel management has come along way since when I was younger and messing with the stuff. So not too sure anymore.

The guys on thespeedfeaks.net would probably be able to help you out a lot. They're more about the performance then here. Or even just a forced induction forum.
Okay I'll try that website; thanks. So I gotta get a fuel management unit and a wideband. Anything else beside all the custom piping and mounting?
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Unread 08-24-2013, 03:17 PM   #13
4x4nation
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1. Do I need fuel management? If so, then what should I use?

Yes, I would recommend a standalone, if you don't have the money for a new AEM or MoTech, Look for a good used one. Or even a cheaper option is a Piggy back ecu they are a cost effective option if you don't have a huge budget to manage your fuel and timing needs. A MAP ECU Ver.1 or Ver.2 you can get used for about 150 - 300 bucks or cheaper in my honest opinion its much better than an Apexi SAFC or HKS SAFR. Its mych easier to use. I'd recommend the MAP ECU for a budget.

2. Will my air/fuel ratio be way off with the turbo even with 24# mustang injectors?

You need a Wideband sir. An AEM wideband is about 200 bucks new Im sure you could snag a used one for 100 bucks ish. Make sure your boosting safely and staying on the safe side of detonation especially if you are going to be non-intercooled your charge will be HOT as it is this will lead to high cylinder temps. Wouldn't surprise me if you need to go one heat range colder on your plugs to keep from breaking up under boost. Wideband is a requirement hands down.

4. Do I need to run a wastegate/bov?

Both are required, Wastegate regulates boost pressure, There are two types internally gated turbos are simple there is no extra welding for a flange and dump tube like there will be for an externally gated turbo. In my opinion an external gate will be better in terms of reliable boost levels. Internally gates turbos especially the ebay ones have bad quality gates and tend to boost creep, Or they will start to open too early and boost will come on super slow. A BOV will keep your turbo from surging, Its argued that surge will not kill a turbo in the short term but in my opinion it is required for reliability.

5. Will I need to retard the timing? If yes then what would the best way to do so? MSD?

Timing retard is a good idea with an NA-T set up at elevated boost levels for sure as the ecu was not designed to see positive pressure there for it dose not really know how to deal with it. Going back to your First question timing retard is a feature you will find in a standalone ecu, MSD can help you out as well for the price of an additional component.

6. Based on all of these factors, how much would I be in the hole money wise? I'm already nearing $500 and I am on a budget and this IS my dd...


Take all this with a grain of sault, Remember

Fast
Cheap
Reliable

You can only pick two brother, Better to save your paper and collect the required parts of good quality than to slap a kit together just to have a turbo ZJ tomorrow and be replacing parts in the future.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 03:21 PM   #14
PolkaPower
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Just message TurboTPI and ask about his set up.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 03:36 PM   #15
ryanfuscozj
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Thanks man that helps a TON. Am I going to need a gauge with the wideband? I was told I needed one.

Polka power, I've tried talking to him but he's quite unresponsive
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