Transfer Case Swap Info NP249->NP231 & NP242 - Page 16 - JeepForum.com
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Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > ZJ Grand Cherokee Forum > Transfer Case Swap Info NP249->NP231 & NP242

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Unread 01-04-2011, 06:52 PM   #226
PlatinumNiner
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1998 ZJ 
 
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Location: Long Island NY
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Your kind of wasting $ here. How much do you plan to lift it? Once lifted that nice new driveshaft may very well be to short and at that point you will need to buy a new one again. FYI there is no such thing as a SYE for a 242. Only thing out there is a hack&tap which works very well just want you to know exactly what you have.

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Unread 01-05-2011, 07:44 AM   #227
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumNiner View Post
Your kind of wasting $ here. How much do you plan to lift it? Once lifted that nice new driveshaft may very well be to short and at that point you will need to buy a new one again. FYI there is no such thing as a SYE for a 242. Only thing out there is a hack&tap which works very well just want you to know exactly what you have.
Have to disagree with you there. Check this:

http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html

It won't let me link you directly to the page, but if you click on the tailshaft conversion kit link and then choose the "242 Late Design" kit, you'll see that it is indeed an SYE kit. I think you are thinking of the 249 that doesn't have an SYE kit.

Now, if you are trying to say that anything that doesn't have the Advance Adapters name on it or doesn't use a custom one-off shaft isn't a "true" SYE kit, then yes, Tom Woods' kit is not a "true" SYE kit. Tom Woods' kit still modifies a stock main shaft, but they cut the shaft down significantly and then re-spline it. This is far superior to any of the "Hack 'n Tap" kits on the market. They also provide a new tail housing that is machined to accept a common seal.

Straight from Tom Woods' website, here's the stock unmodified shaft:


And here is after Tom Woods gets done with it:


And here's a picture of the complete kit:


Also, please bear in mind that this kit came already installed on a freshly rebuilt transfer case. Hard to beat (in my opinion) for $140.


Now, about the driveshaft, I tend to agree with you that this may be a "waste of money" since I plan on lifting it later. However, I don't currently have a rear driveshaft AT ALL right now. Much less something that works with the new CV yoke on the SYE kit, so I have to get something. I can't just let my Jeep sit for 6 months until I do the lift. I plan on lifting it 5.5", by the way. When I told them I planned on lifting it later, they were originally going to build the DS a half-inch "long". You might be surprised how little your driveshaft length changes because as the rear axle moves down, it also moves forward because of the 4-link setup. In fact, if the pivot point of the control arms was right where output yoke on the t-case was, there would be ZERO length change as the suspension cycled.

Anyways, when I measured for my new rear DS, I came up with 38-3/4" long, which they felt would give me vibrations if I went with the 2" 0.120 wall tubing we were originally planning on using. They recommended the 2-1/2" 0.083 wall tubing for my application. Unfortunately, you can't use their "extended travel" spline design (they call it an "XB" or XC" spline) with the 2-1/2" tubing, which means they can't build it 1/2" long. They have to build it to the proper length.

Worst case scenario if my DS is too short after I lift it is that I send my DS back to Tom Woods to be lengthened, $65 shipped back to me. Hell, I only live about 2 hours away from their shop, I could probably just drive down one day and have them lengthen it on the spot, no downtime required.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 08:01 AM   #228
PlatinumNiner
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h very cool i didnt know of that kit. No im not saying that if it's not made by AA it's not an SYE they do make good stuff but so do plenty of other companies. Personally i used one from JBConversions in my XJ on my 231 Good info to know though thanks. TomWoods also makes good stuff but kinda on the high priced side. Plenty of local shops that will make a shaft that just as strong for less $ My local shop built me a 3" tube shaft with brand new DC joint, redseal race joints, brand new CV joint as well. 100% brand new construction painted ready to bolt in $300 out the door.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 08:04 AM   #229
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumNiner View Post
h very cool i didnt know of that kit. No im not saying that if it's not made by AA it's not an SYE they do make good stuff but so do plenty of other companies. Personally i used one from JBConversions in my XJ on my 231 Good info to know though thanks. TomWoods also makes good stuff but kinda on the high priced side. Plenty of local shops that will make a shaft that just as strong for less $ My local shop built me a 3" tube shaft with brand new DC joint, redseal race joints, brand new CV joint as well. 100% brand new construction painted ready to bolt in $300 out the door.
Mine was $300 from Tom Woods, too. I figured it would be less hassle because they are the makers of the SYE kit, so they would know exactly what to make. They are also somewhat "local" to me. The only other place near me that will make me a DS is 6 States, and in my experience, they are about as expensive as you can get. They would probably quote me $450 for the same DS. I should call them just to find out.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 08:08 AM   #230
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Not bad as long as he's using the same quality parts. Yea $450 is nuts. The only way to know the exact length shaft needed is to install the t-case and measure at ride height. Any good shop will take the measuerement and know exactly how long to make the shaft and where to center the CV for perfect fuction.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 08:10 AM   #231
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumNiner View Post
Not bad as long as he's using the same quality parts. Yea $450 is nuts. The only way to know the exact length shaft needed is to install the t-case and measure at ride height. Any good shop will take the measuerement and know exactly how long to make the shaft and where to center the CV for perfect fuction.
Agreed, any GOOD shop will. Unfortunately, we have a shortage of those here in Wyoming. I wasn't so much worried about the shop getting the length wrong, just more of connecting to the proper CV yoke on one end and the proper pinion yoke on the other. You probably laugh at my timidness, but I swear to you it's justified. I try to do any work on any of my vehicles myself because it seems like whenever I take something in to be done by someone, they screw it up.
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Unread 01-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #232
PlatinumNiner
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Your not alone. Its the same way all over the country. Most mechanics these days are a joke.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 06:53 PM   #233
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I'm usually over at XJ or MJ forums but been around awhile. Why would the swap work this way? Is a 249 a better or worse TC than a 231? I have a 96 249 case I want to put in my MJ behind the AW4. Doable?? sorry about the Jack.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 09:01 PM   #234
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231 and a 249 are nothing at all a like. The 231 is 2wd with a 4wd option. 249 is 4wd all the time. 242 has an option of 2wd, 4 full time, 4 part time which is what makes it a great case for guys who want to be able to run 4wd on dry parement or just any time they want to. Great for us 5.9 guys who cant launch unless we are in 4wd. I launch in 2wd i just spin the tires and kick the @ss end out.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 07:45 AM   #235
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumNiner View Post
231 and a 249 are nothing at all a like. The 231 is 2wd with a 4wd option. 249 is 4wd all the time. 242 has an option of 2wd, 4 full time, 4 part time which is what makes it a great case for guys who want to be able to run 4wd on dry parement or just any time they want to. Great for us 5.9 guys who cant launch unless we are in 4wd. I launch in 2wd i just spin the tires and kick the @ss end out.
Agreed. 231 seems to be the favorite of the hardcore offroad crowd because of the brute strength and simplicity of the case, as well as the aftermarket support. The 249 seems to be the least favored of the three cases. As mentioned, it is a full-time case, with the only two other available positions being neutral and 4LO. I *hear* that a properly functioning 249 case is hard to beat in terms of traction, but I have owned two of these cases and both had fried VC's. A VC rebuild kit is $400+.

The 242 seems to be a good compromise of the two. It seems to be more capable off-road since you have the 4-Part Time position, which locks the front and rear outputs at 50/50. 4-Full Time is available for whatever road condition you like. Then you have 4LO and 2WD, if you so desire. There is rumor that you get better mileage in 2WD, but I don't see how that is possible without locking hubs on the front. The 242 also enjoys better aftermarket support than the 249, tho it is still nowhere near that of the 231.

All three transfer cases are the same OAL, so if you find the right year, they can be a direct bolt-in for your XJ or ZJ. The only other thing you have to consider at that point is shift indicator's and the like.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 08:18 AM   #236
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The cases arent all the same length. I put a 97 ZJ 242 in my 98 ZJ and it's about 1.5" longer. Still bolted in with no problems though. The shift indicator is an easy issue also. Behing the VIC you have 2 red plugs and 2 black plugs. One pair will be plugged into one another and the other one wont. All you have to do is unplug the pair thats already plugged in to one another and find the other pair thats taped to the harness (not plugged into one another) and plug them in. Hope you guys follow that lol. That will make the VIC display the proper position. All ZJ's are wired for the 242 and 249 as it was an option and the harness is the same. Just gota swap that one plug so you have the proper display on the VIC. You can actually get to those plugs by removing the heater controls so you dont have to drop the whole bottom of the dash and glove box to actually remove the VIC
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Unread 01-19-2011, 08:24 AM   #237
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumNiner View Post
The cases arent all the same length. I put a 97 ZJ 242 in my 98 ZJ and it's about 1.5" longer. Still bolted in with no problems though. The shift indicator is an easy issue also. Behing the VIC you have 2 red plugs and 2 black plugs. One pair will be plugged into one another and the other one wont. All you have to do is unplug the pair thats already plugged in to one another and find the other pair thats taped to the harness (not plugged into one another) and plug them in. Hope you guys follow that lol. That will make the VIC display the proper position. All ZJ's are wired for the 242 and 249 as it was an option and the harness is the same. Just gota swap that one plug so you have the proper display on the VIC. You can actually get to those plugs by removing the heater controls so you dont have to drop the whole bottom of the dash and glove box to actually remove the VIC
Did the 2 cases have the same driveshaft type? TMK, all the CASES are the same length, less any differences in the tailhousing (which differs based on driveshaft type). And there are no hard and fast rules here. The 249 I just pulled out of my Niner had an internal slip yoke, whereas everything I read said that everything '96 and newer was supposed to have the external slip yoke. No prob, tho, since the 242 I got had an SYE already installed.

The shift indicator stuff you mentioned was exactly what I was getting at. I didn't go into detail because I was trying to leave the conversation general enough to apply to both XJ's and ZJ's. But since you brought it up, you're right. Electrically the 242 is an easy swap into a ZJ. 231 in a ZJ - not so much. 231's and 242/249's use different shift indicator sensors, so swapping between the two types is not always so easy. I hear it can be done, tho. Then you just have to locate the elusize ZJ 231 bezel. The XJ is simpler because it doesn't have a VIC, right?

Just trying to flesh this out for others who read this.
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Unread 01-19-2011, 09:42 AM   #238
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Ther only year ZJ that came with the 231 option was 1993 as far as i know. You are right the XJ can use anything it has no VIC.
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Unread 01-20-2011, 11:24 AM   #239
Erbo1Kanerbo
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i have a 96 zj with a 249 and i found a deal for an 89 xj 242 from what i have been researching they changed the sun gears and something else and i heard when you swap the parts from a 249 over to the 242 it could damage the case/ make noise is this true? somone help please i have to get this thing today if it will work!!
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Unread 01-20-2011, 11:28 AM   #240
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erbo1Kanerbo View Post
i have a 96 zj with a 249 and i found a deal for an 89 xj 242 from what i have been researching they changed the sun gears and something else and i heard when you swap the parts from a 249 over to the 242 it could damage the case/ make noise is this true? somone help please i have to get this thing today if it will work!!
The gear cut on the input is a different angle, that's what you are kind of alluding to. Also, the input (stickout) length is different for that case. When the only thing that is different is the input length, you can swap input gears. However, you can't do that with this case because the input gear you would be swapping in would have a different gear cut than your existing planets.

I *THINK* you can still use that case, you just need to swap the entire planetary assembly or even the entire front case half. I think this is outlined in the first few pages of this thread. Look there for discussion surroung gear cuts and input swaps. The information is there, it is just getting cumbersome to wade through.
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