Toluene or Xylene and Timing Advance? - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 7 Old 03-19-2013, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
McCloudsZJ
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Toluene or Xylene and Timing Advance?

I have a 1998 5.9. I use 93 octane, ethanol free gas. Bolt on engine stuff, for now. Now thats out of the way...

Anybody running toluene or xylene in their gas with advanced timing (which I think you can do with the SCT???)? I know at least one of you has talked about it, but I haven't seen any threads with people actually doing it. Is it even worth doing NA?

Here's some mix (toluene:92 octane) vs octane numbers to think about.

10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
50%...105 Octane

Now, there was a fellow on here who said his SCT tune was running 40 of timing advance on E10 92 octane, and was getting pinging. Any reason I can't crank it up that high with a higher octane fuel?


March 2014 GCOTM. 1998 Deep Slate 5.9
On the Jeep:Hot intake, 52mm TB, Summit 8mm wires, catch can, 703s, insulated fuel rails, indexed Champions, Bilstein 4600s, Eibach lowering springs, Moog SS, Ironman mounts, Lotek 2GP, lots of gauges, sparkly paint.
In the garage: M1 4bbl
In the works: Addco/Hellwig sway bars, nitrous, full polly bushings, full exhaust, data logging, billet UD pulleys
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post #2 of 7 Old 03-19-2013, 02:10 PM
ratmonkey
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speed freaks is a better place for info on this kind of thing.

'97 zj 5.2, some stuff, some other suff, and some things that even work sometimes.

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post #3 of 7 Old 03-19-2013, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
McCloudsZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
speed freaks is a better place for info on this kind of thing.
I know... I posted it on there too but nobody responded yet. I also asked on dodgeforum, moparforum, and the 5.9 Facebook.

I'm just trying to get as much input from as many people as I can.

If you don't think it's an appropriate question to ask on ZJ tech, feel free to move or delete it.

March 2014 GCOTM. 1998 Deep Slate 5.9
On the Jeep:Hot intake, 52mm TB, Summit 8mm wires, catch can, 703s, insulated fuel rails, indexed Champions, Bilstein 4600s, Eibach lowering springs, Moog SS, Ironman mounts, Lotek 2GP, lots of gauges, sparkly paint.
In the garage: M1 4bbl
In the works: Addco/Hellwig sway bars, nitrous, full polly bushings, full exhaust, data logging, billet UD pulleys
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post #4 of 7 Old 03-19-2013, 08:35 PM
ratmonkey
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Just doubt you'll hear much input here is all

'97 zj 5.2, some stuff, some other suff, and some things that even work sometimes.

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post #5 of 7 Old 03-20-2013, 06:09 AM
Foundrydude
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The reality is if you're running stock pistons and aren't supercharged, there's not much gain for you.

People use additional octane to compensate for combustion conditions that force timing to be reduced. You don't have those conditions, so you're not restoring timing by adding octane.

More timing does not always equal more power. WOT your stock timing is probably pretty close.

good luck with the project!
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post #6 of 7 Old 03-21-2013, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
McCloudsZJ
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Thanks fellas. I'm researching and saving up for (mostly just researching) building a stroker. I'm looking at all of the stuff that needs to go with it or can go with it. I'm not looking for cheap HP, or mileage gains, or anything stupid like that. I just want a strong, healthy engine that's as free breathing and as powerful I can manage.

I'm seriously considering building the 408 stroker. I've always wanted to build an engine from the bottom up, and I think the 408 is what I want. I've rebuilt a couple of little motorcycle engines, a 33hp lawnmower engine, and a weed-eater, but never a V8, and I'm dying to. The 408 would put me at significantly higher compression. I want to play with the different gas mixes, maybe WMI or MEI, different intake manifolds, etc to see what I'm comfortable with. I know the stock niner isn't going to benefit tremendously, I'm just trying to get some input from people who know what the **** they're talking about.

I think I'm going to try some of the toluene, just to see what happens--the scientific method!

March 2014 GCOTM. 1998 Deep Slate 5.9
On the Jeep:Hot intake, 52mm TB, Summit 8mm wires, catch can, 703s, insulated fuel rails, indexed Champions, Bilstein 4600s, Eibach lowering springs, Moog SS, Ironman mounts, Lotek 2GP, lots of gauges, sparkly paint.
In the garage: M1 4bbl
In the works: Addco/Hellwig sway bars, nitrous, full polly bushings, full exhaust, data logging, billet UD pulleys
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post #7 of 7 Old 03-22-2013, 05:54 PM
Foundrydude
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IMO, the best route for a streeter is to get GREEDY with displacement. But keep the cam and compression moderate. Finicky engines don't last and building a street engine around fuel additives is a recipe for building it twice.

This is regardless of the effectiveness of the additive.

Now if you are boosted, and have the ability to crank pressure up for a track day, additives become a lot more viable. But that's a little less of a street situation, and can also be remedied with 10 gallons of race fuel that you can count on.

good luck with the project
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