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-   -   Thinking of doing brake lines before winter, some questions (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/thinking-doing-brake-lines-before-winter-some-questions-1783801/)

crazymjb 11-12-2013 12:25 PM

Thinking of doing brake lines before winter, some questions
 
I have noticed a good amount of rot on some of my brake lines when putting on the undercoating. The fuel lines seem fine but the stupid wire they wrap around the brake lines have caused them to rust to the point I'm afraid to touch them. I am really busy with school but I'd like to do them before the snow starts falling.

I have a few questions.
1. For those who have done them on a ZJ, how much time can I expect this to take?
2. I have ABS, I have heard as long as the pump does not cycle when there is no fluid in the system, there is no risk of getting air in the system
3. Any thoughts on these tools:
In line flaring tool (I had a miserable experience with the clamp style ones): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007S8M0OG/...I3H851MW07XUFW
Bender: http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44150-Tu...ke+line+bender

4. Any thoughts on if I should buy a coil of brake line off amazon, or just get the straight sections from autozone?

5. Anything special I need to know about doing this on a jeep, weird flares, etc?

I plan on priming the lines before I put it all back together and then bleeding the brakes the traditional way. Good idea? Bad idea?

Mike

Pierre_r 11-12-2013 01:04 PM

When i let a shop replace al of my brakelines it took them a day from 07:00am to 16:30pm (with breakes included 30 min breakfast, 1 hour lunchbreak and a 15 min coffebreak in the afternoon)

They disconnected the battery and bled it like a normal non abs system.
They used coppernickel lines on mine and they come in a large coil.

Make sure you can release the bleeders if they are stuck try to use a socket that fits the bleeder and then give the socket a good whack with a sledgehammer a couple of times, or heat around it to loosen it up.
But the easiest way is to is to just replace the cylinder/caliper if they start to give you trouble.

If you use the copperline you can bend it by hand its very soft. and the flaringtool you linked to dont look to be that good.
At work i use one of these to make the flares:
http://store.fedhillusa.com/007bbrak...aringtool.aspx

You will get perfect flares everytime once you have learned how to use it.

crazymjb 11-12-2013 01:33 PM

Unfortunately I don't have 400 to drop on a flaring too, or I'd be going with one of those or a hydraulic one.

I will probably order a 25ft roll of the nickel-copper line, its only about 30 bucks and I hear it is a helluva lot easier to work with than the steel I've used in the past.

Good to know it can get done in a day, I'll probably start spraying the nuts and bolts down the PB blaster this week. I've yet to come accross something I couldn't loosen with a torch as well. Including the farking axle nuts.

Also glad I can do it without having to go to the dealer to use a DRB scantool. I heard something about a bubble flair at the ABS valve-block, do you remember if that's the case, or is it a regular SAE flair?

Also do you recommend a cheap vaccuum bleeder, or just go with the old fashioned pump/tighten method?

Mike

Technohead 11-12-2013 01:39 PM

You need to use DOUBLE FLARES for brake lines. I see not indicatation that the tool you refer to is capable of creating double flares.

JasonStebbins 11-12-2013 01:40 PM

I replaced all four of mine in under two hours. It's very simple. Most of the connections are 13mm. Brake lines are around $8.00 a piece at Advance Auto. Don't worry about the ABS pump, just don't turn on the Jeep while your lines are disconnected. I didn't use any flaring tools when I did mine. Just buy the correct adapters when you purchase the new lines. Everything just screws together. I just bought plain old brake lines, they will probably out last my Jeep at this point anyway.

No special tools required for this job. Bleeding the lines at all four calipers is sufficient.

crazymjb 11-12-2013 01:57 PM

The kit does double flares. There is a die you put in, tighten it down, then you pull the die out, and tighten the triangle-thingie down on the flare again to roll it over.

I already had enough of a headache using the hard-lines that are only X feet long from auto part stores in the past. I've been doing some reading and I can order a 25 foot spool of the Nickel Copper line for 30 bucks shipped. Hand bendable, easier to flare, etc. I'll probably need to buy some fittings, or I suppose I could re-use the old ones.

Mike

JasonStebbins 11-12-2013 02:03 PM

What are you guys flaring? All you need is to buy the adapters that make new lines connect to the master cylinder and calipers.

crazymjb 11-12-2013 02:12 PM

Master cylinder goes to ABS pump. All those lines are corrosion free. The lines from the ABS pump to each front wheel, and the line from the ABS pump to the rear axle, as well as the lines on the rear axle, are all wicked corroded, I doubt they'll make it through the winter. So I am replacing all the hard lines. I may be able to splice the one along the firewall for the right front wheel closer to the wheel as there is no corrosion in the engine bay.

Mike

Uniblurb 11-12-2013 03:20 PM

I bought all my brake lines, tools, fitting, etc., from Amazon for my 96 ZJ and son's 96 XJ. I didn't have any problems using the below "OTC Stinger 4503 Double Flaring Tool Kit" w/case which is only $23. Takes a little torque/muscle but made nice leak-free double flares.

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4503-Sting...le+flaring+set

I used the 3/16"x 25' roll of poly/amor coated steel line and while a little hard to bend was able to do it w/o any tube bender. And was able to get them about the same shape as OE w/o any crimps.

Also bought a bag of inverted flare nuts which were only $5 for 20 and worked well. Save the metric ones and use over which fit the master cylinder since they tend not to rust.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...121003%2020pcs

Also bought a bag of inverted flare unions (10pcs) for $5 and only used 1 since only did one splice.

About the best investment I made, and should have bought one years ago, was the below "Motive Power Bleeder - 0103, Chrysler", and my wife loves it! LOL!

http://www.amazon.com/Motive-Product...r+bleeder+0103

I also heard of someone installing an air valve in an extra MC cap and then using air pressure to do a one-person bleed. But it sure as heck doesn't work as well at the Motive bleeder where you just add the brake fluid and then add some more pressure to it by pumping it a little more.

Yeah, start hosing down all your brake line fittings now. I used to use PB but now use the acetone/atf mix which seems to work better. Make sure you hold the brass brake block on the axle which has the vent going through it tight with a wrench or vice grips when removing the fittings since you sure don't want to crack/break it. I also used a small wire brush on the fitting just to be able to get the rust cutter down in the brass threads. Doesn't matter if you twist all the lines/fittings off since you're installing new but don't want to damage this part.

Good luck!

crazymjb 11-12-2013 03:30 PM

Thanks. Any insight on whether or not it is a double flare or bubble flare going to the ABS pump? I'm replacing everything POST ABS pump, the lines from the master cylinder to the ABS pump are fine.

I am going to pick up a squeeze pump vacuum bleeder as I need to replace the fluid on my Harley in the spring.

Mike

OverlandZJ 11-12-2013 04:03 PM

Yes, it's a bubble flare at the ABS pump. Napa can sell you a short section of bubbled line.. add a union and double flare from there.

I'v done this job a few times.. unfortunately the line is not available from dealer anymore, but the XJ and WJ line is. Grab the 25' roll, you may need to address the hardlines on rear axle also. I'd also suggest a new softline from unirail to rear axle if it looks corroded.

Line wrench if you have the extra funds, always a good idea on brake fittings.

crazymjb 11-12-2013 04:07 PM

160 bucks later I should have everything by next week at the latest. On the plus side the line and fittings were only like 35 bucks.

Mike

crazymjb 11-12-2013 04:10 PM

I didn't bother with the line wrenches, I'll just cut the line and throw a socket on if need be. I will be replacing the hardlines on the rear axle.

Can anyone tell me why the **** they wrap all the old brake lines in this coil/spring? As far as I can tell that almost single handedly caused the rusting.

I ended up ordering a flare kit that allows for bubble flares to be made as well. It was about the same price.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Inline-...r+inline+flare

Mike

somebody5788 11-12-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazymjb (Post 17650401)
I didn't bother with the line wrenches, I'll just cut the line and throw a socket on if need be. I will be replacing the hardlines on the rear axle.

Can anyone tell me why the **** they wrap all the old brake lines in this coil/spring? As far as I can tell that almost single handedly caused the rusting.

The socket method is usually the best way to do it.

I think the spring stuff actually protects it pretty well. I've seen a lot worse with lines that don't have it.

Uniblurb 11-13-2013 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazymjb (Post 17650401)
I didn't bother with the line wrenches, I'll just cut the line and throw a socket on if need be. I will be replacing the hardlines on the rear axle.

Can anyone tell me why the **** they wrap all the old brake lines in this coil/spring? As far as I can tell that almost single handedly caused the rusting.

I ended up ordering a flare kit that allows for bubble flares to be made as well. It was about the same price.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Inline-...r+inline+flare

Mike

Believe that coil spring on the lines is for protecting it on high vibration areas, like rear axle, along with rocks/road debris hitting the line. But agree it just seems like it rusts the lines out quicker and don't think they bother with installing it on many newer vehicles. While maybe not necessary I cut some small chunks of fuel hose and installed them on the axle lines where I thought it might vibrate against metal like if it didn't fit tight under the tabs you pry up on the back/top of the axle.

I'm old world in using the old-style flaring kits for plumbing/brake-type lines with the clamp/tapered piece on the inside of the lines. Curious how that set you ordered works in making flares and is it much easier?


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