The stalling and restarting problem AGAIN! :-( - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 44 Old 03-10-2012, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Nick_S
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1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Los Angeles
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The stalling and restarting problem AGAIN! :-(

Well I am now faced with the infamous Grand Cherokee sporadic stalling and restarting problem. Yet I am amazed by the years worth of stuff online about people with Jeeps having this exact same problem, yet there does not seem to be any surefire fix for this problem, where even the Jeep dealers can not fix this problem right away. Yet mainly I’m trying to get some answers to see what I can do myself while trying to keep from tossing tons of money senselessly at this problem. I would like to explore a few do-it-yourself options before taking it to my mechanic, because he may charge me a fortune to try to find the problem by trial-and-error . . . which worries me, since I read of so many people saying that the Jeep dealer could not readily find out this same old stalling and starting problem that seems to have plagued Jeep Grand Cherokees for many years.

I have a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, with a 4.0 6 cylinder engine, with 2 wheel drive, and with about 165,000 miles.

Upon reading about this problem in so many online forums, I was wondering what was the “one thing” that “you did” to your Jeep Grand Cherokee that fixed this problem? When I say fixed, I mean what was the “one thing” that you did that totally stopped your stalling and restarting problems for at least 6 or more months?

To keep things easy and simple, it is not necessary to read beyond this paragraph, unless you want to know some of the background of my particular situation and problems. Mainly I am only looking for the “one thing” that "you did" that totally stopped your stalling and restarting problems for at least 6 or more months, so I can start experimenting with those solutions to see if I can quickly fix my stalling and restarting problems.

Thank you.


If you want to know more background on my problem, here it is:

I have the classic case of my Jeep is unpredictable, in regards to the stalling and starting problems. The engine tends to bucks at least 3 or 4 times upon driving it for 5 to 6 days. The engine now dies within 15 to 25 minutes of driving it . . . sometimes it will start right back up or at times, it will take 1 to 5 minutes to restart it. Yet if I dare park it (after driving 15 to 25 minutes), it is a 50/50 chance that it will restart. If it doesn’t restart, it will take about 2 to 3 hours before it will start. Yet it amazes me that I can try starting the engine to the point of draining the battery down and the engine will not turn over, yet if I leave it sit for 2 to 3 hours, it quickly starts right up with no hesitation.

Though the CEL has not been on in over 4 months, my mechanic said it only had one code, and the code was a PO138 Oxygen Sensor / Bank 1 Sensor, which he said would not be related to the stalling and starting problem. He said that he thinks the problem is electrical or it could be the fuel pump.

I had heard that adjusting some screws by the PCM (behind the coolant reservoir) fixes this problem.

I had heard that the CEL reader should pick up a code “11" (no crank shaft signal position signal detected), then once you replace the crank shaft sensor, this fixes this problem (I do not have this code reading).

I have also heard that by replacing various sensors, this stopped this problem.

I had heard that replacing the PCM fixes this problem. I wonder can I get a PCM from a salvage yard? I sure don’t want to buy a brand new PCM and it turns out that is not the problem, because I have heard of several people buying brand new PCM (for $200+) from the Jeep dealer only to discover that did not fix their stalling and starting problem.

Yet all-in-all, it sounds like trying to fix this problem could be just about anything and that I just should be prepared to throw out lots of money trying all of these various options until the problem is fixed. Yet I'm just trying to avoid this, since I'm living on a very tight income and budget (due to our poor economy) and I can't afford to get another vehicle at this time.


Last edited by Nick_S; 03-10-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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post #2 of 44 Old 03-10-2012, 04:47 PM
RazorbackZJ
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Replace the crank sensor. Mine used to die a restart going down the highway. And sometimes it would take an hour or two to start. Replaced the sensor solved the problem.
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post #3 of 44 Old 03-10-2012, 05:14 PM
ZeeJay1997
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Yes a salvage yard pcm will work if you can find one from a 2WD 96. The One thing I did was buy a spare PCM to troubleshoot with.

Things you can do that are free that may fix your problem:

Check clean and reseat coil connector
Check clean and reseat cam sensor connector
Check clean and reseat all PCM connectors (take coolant bottle out)
Crank it while the coolant bottle is out and wiggle, press, twist, the PCM connectors and see if you get any reaction from the engine
Use a screwdriver handle or small wrench to tap the case all over and see if you get a reaction to the engine.
Find the ground on the block near the coil bracket, take it apart and scrub everything with a steel brush. Do this regardless of the appearance of the assembly. Do the same thing with the battery posts, the main feed to the fusebox under the hood, and the ground on the left fender. Look for stiff, swelled up cables that may have internal corrosion.
Take everything out of the fusebox under the hood. Take note of which position the relays and fuses come from. When reinstalling, substitute the horn and wiper relays for the fuel pump and ASD relays. Put the correct size fuses back in the right place, or do them one at a time, Clean all posts and use contact cleaner on the sockets.
Check fuel pressure with a gauge.

Sorry this is more than one thing, but to nail a ZJ stall cause (absent of a CEL) in one sentence is near impossible. You need to do all this before you buy the first part. I'm sure I left something out.


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post #4 of 44 Old 03-10-2012, 05:23 PM
Sandy97ZJ
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I had two crankshaft sensors go out without throwing codes. Cheaper than replacing the PCM... but you might have to do that too...
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post #5 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
Nick_S
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Thank you, Everyone. I greatly appreciate your help. I apologize for taking so long to get back in contact with you. I had a death in my family since I made my first post and Iím also dealing with an elderly family member who is going through some rough health issues at the moment. Now that things have settled back down again, Iím back online to work on my engine issues once again.

RazorbackZJ and Enriquei, Iíll put a crankshaft sensor down as a possible problem and look at it later, since that will be a more costly fix, yet I also want to hold off on that one for now, since I have read other people that replaced their crankshaft sensor, where that did not fix the problem.

ZeeJay1997, well I will work through your AWESOME & DETAILED list and see how I fair. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to write and share as much as you did. It is greatly appreciated. Thank you so very, very much.

The bottom line is, Iím going to try to see what are the free and cheap things I can try to do on my own, before taking it in to a mechanic. As I know that this is quirky problem, so I want to be able to go to the mechanic and tell him all of the things that I did on my own, otherwise I'm sure he will charge me an arm and a leg trying to find the problem and fixing it.

Thanks again Everyone, for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

Nick
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post #6 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 11:08 PM
rooster51
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DO NOT TAKE IT TO A MECHANIC. They will be unable to figure this out and will resort to throwing parts and labor at it. You can do the same thing yourself and save potentially thousands of $$, as many of us have done with the wealth of info on this forum.
Start with ZeeJay's list.
Hell, Jeep hasn't even figured this stuff out yet.

Terry

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post #7 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
Nick_S
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Rooster51, thanks for the vote of confidence, LOL!!! , however Iím not mechanically inclined, and I donít even know how to change my oil. LOL!!! So Iím pretty much at the mercy of a mechanic or someone that knows how to work on cars to this degree.

Yet I had a look at a YouTube video called Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Removal. This video is 4 minutes and 7 seconds long, and this video basically tells about the problem and how this sensor is replaced. However upon looking at this video, that is far too technical and complicated for me, so it is best for a professional to replace that sensor. Yet out of all that I have read online about this problem, the CKP sensor seems like it really is the problem. For now, I am going to work my way through ZeeJay1997's list along with trying to do the many things others have suggested, then if that does not fix the problem, then I think Iím just going to take it to the mechanic and have them replace the CKP, while not having them do anything else, and then see how the engine runs.

Nick
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post #8 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 07:43 AM
JS97ZJ
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If you can solder or get a practice circuit board and learn until you feel comfortable with re soldering connections, you can repair it yourself. It might seem challenging but a couple of guys here have tried and have gotten good results. The problem with re manufactured PCMs is that most places that that repair PCMs don't go through the trouble of doing all that is nessary inorder to really repair the problem.

I you try the following procedure and it doesn't work for you, you can buy a re manufactured one and send them the core back

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/9...tures-1303589/

i repaired mine in order to avoid going though what others have, and it's now going on 2 years without any trouble.

Good luck

P.S. Disconnect the battery before you disconnect the PCM connectors. You could end up frying the PCM if you don't.
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post #9 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 08:15 AM
RazorbackZJ
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Trust me, now that you have a ZJ you will get mechanicly inclined! I was the same before I got mine. Never worked on a car before, but I've learned soooo much since! Good luck!
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post #10 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 11:52 AM
Oldfrog
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I bought a PCM with a lifetime warranty from autocomputersdirect.com
It was perfect for 11 months....then it cratered. Then I bought another one from Oreilly's ( Cardone brand)...so far, it's perfect too. We'll see.

The other one is going back under warranty. ( I dont send the cores in....I'd rather have 2-3 on hand.)

BTW, the one from Florida (autocomputersdirect), came with California emissions.....which I only found out after hooking a code checker to it. He knew dang good and well I was in Louisiana when I ordered it. The warranty replacement better not be the same.

2007 5.7 Hemi, Ltd. QD II -
1997 ZJ, 4,0 select trac, Up country, track lok.
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post #11 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 02:01 PM
rooster51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorbackZJ View Post
Trust me, now that you have a ZJ you will get mechanicly inclined! I was the same before I got mine. Never worked on a car before, but I've learned soooo much since! Good luck!
This is the truth. If you own a ZJ and don't print your own money you will learn to work on it. Before my join date all I knew was how to change oil and spark plugs. With alot of research, your ability and confidence will grow.

Terry

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post #12 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 06:23 PM
RazorbackZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rooster51

This is the truth. If you own a ZJ and don't print your own money you will learn to work on it. Before my join date all I knew was how to change oil and spark plugs. With alot of research, your ability and confidence will grow.
Exactly right!
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post #13 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
Nick_S
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JS97ZJ, thanks for the additional help and advice, but I canít solder. Yet I will keep your information handy about buying a re-manufactured PCM

Iím only planning to keep my Jeep for another year or two, and then I plan to get rid of it. Because though I brought this Jeep brand new, however due to itís age now, the troubles keep mounting with it along with mounting repair bills each time it is a mid to big problem that only a mechanic can fix. I really should have gotten rid of it back when the transmission went out when it had about 98K miles on it in 2002, because it cost me almost 3K to have the transmission rebuilt. Yet at this point, Iím going to fix the things that need to be repaired to keep it running (until I get rid of it), and either do band-aid repairs or not fix the problems at all (i.e. not fix the problems that donít involve the drive ability of it) . . . i.e. the speakers are shot, the rear wiper does not work. Yet really at this point, I only plan to spend money on just the essentials to keep it running.

RazorbackZJ, so now, I wonít be getting mechanically inclined at this point. Also Rooster51, at this point, I donít have to worry about my ability and confidence growing. LOL!!! I admit, that I loved my Jeep until the transmission went out in 2002. Though since I have been having more-and-more trouble with it in the past 2 years, I will say that I overall loved my Jeep, but now it is past time to get rid of it and move on. When I brought my Jeep, I had planned on keeping it at least 30 years or forever (whichever came first), because I keep it in good condition, I always gently drove it, have been putting less than 5K per year on it the past 9 years. So I just thought it would be pretty much trouble-free for the most part . . . boy have I been wrong the past 2 years.

Oldfrog, thank you for the information. I will keep it handy as well, and I may use it if I end up buying a new PCM. Good luck on returning your other PCM.

Nick
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post #14 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 08:44 PM
rooster51
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I couldn't solder either, but I bought a $9 soldering kit at walmart, read the thread on headlight dimmer switch, and soldered it.
I can keep this up all year.
Just try it, its just a wrench. Whats the worse that can happen? Your jeeps already broke.




The force flows from everything around us.

Terry

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post #15 of 44 Old 03-26-2012, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
Nick_S
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Location: Los Angeles
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As I work on my lists of things that I need to check for my stalling and restarting problem, I was wondering, does the ďMAP sensorĒ or ďcamshaft position sensorĒ might have any major part in this stalling and restarting issue? Thus far, it seems the major players for this problem that I have most read about is the ďPCMĒ and ďCPSĒ. Yet Iím not sure if a ďcamshaft position sensorĒ and a ďcrankshaft position sensorĒ are one in the same or are they 2 different sensors.

Lastly, one recommendation I had read was to ďclean the throttle body and IACĒ, yet Iím wondering could this be related to the infamous stalling and restarting issue as well?

Your thoughts?
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