RC 4 inch lift

am9010 · 02-17-2009, 11:00 AM

I've noticed a lot of people recently are interested in this lift kit. I've also noticed the people that buy it say its an incomplete lift for 4 inches. I am thinking about getting this lift and then buying other parts to complete it. the main reason why i want this lift is for the adj control arms so i can easily slip in blocks for another 2 inches. I know people will suggest that i buy the IRO 3.5 lift, however won't i be able to flex a lot more with the adj control arms that come with the RC lift?

I am assuming to make the RC lift more complete ill need front and rear trac bars, what else?

CoolGuyDave · 02-17-2009, 11:06 AM

i figured i would do the same as you, but i priced it out and its cheaper to get the IRO 4.5 premium lift. you can also get it with adj C-arms. just something to think about....
-dave

RingRingRing · 02-17-2009, 11:06 AM

I think your about to get flamed for the blocks statement...

am9010 · 02-17-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RingRingRing

I think your about to get flamed for the blocks statement...

Eh im not worried about it, its the internet, there's a lot of a******* on it that would rather call me stupid than lead me in a better direction

rugermack · 02-17-2009, 11:20 AM

The IRO kit is about $500 more and the control arms aren't adjustable. The upgrade is $160 for adjustable arms, which brings the kit up to $1300 or so. The RC kit is $639 plus trac bars, About $350-400= about $1000-1100. The adjustable trac bars will handle 1"-6" of lift, so 2" spacers could be added later.

am9010 · 02-17-2009, 11:54 AM

Would i be better off building a custom lift? i just want to be able to have control arms and a smooth ride without having to pay over $1000. Should i buy the 3.5 lift and add control arms so i can add blocks later? im stuck in a situation! haha

xgerstandtx · 02-17-2009, 01:00 PM

i run the 4'' RC lift. I used the IRO double sheer adjustable track bar. made my own disconnects for sway bars. I really like the way this went together. It works very well for short arms from what i have seen. I will be running 33''s on 4'' backspacing wheels, there will be a some trimming for sure.

shop around it still seems like a great deal, and good quality

rugermack · 02-17-2009, 01:37 PM

It's hard to find a kit with 4 coils, 4 shocks, and 6 adjustable control arms for $639. I'm thinking about buying it. I'll worry about trac bar later. My control arm bushings are almost shot anyway, then I don't have to change them.

**Jones** · 02-17-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugermack

The IRO kit is about $500 more and the control arms aren't adjustable. The upgrade is $160 for adjustable arms, which brings the kit up to $1300 or so. The RC kit is $639 plus trac bars, About $350-400= about $1000-1100. The adjustable trac bars will handle 1"-6" of lift, so 2" spacers could be added later.

This is from Ron. He couldn't have stated it better.

I'm starting to notice a large influx of newbies inquiring about lifting their jeeps around five to six inches. I'm wondering why you all desire this lift height and what you plan on accomplishing by doing so (ie. what size tires you want to run, specs on your lift/drivetrain, type of wheeling you plan to do).

The reason I ask is because, in my opinion, a 5-6" lift on a grand with short arms and stock axles/driveshafts is a very poor setup. This can be done but, the cost goes up!

Do you want to lift your ZJ 5-6" to fit a specific tire size? Do you realize the consequences on the drivetrain as a result of running that tire size? I'm guessing that most people who want to lift their grands this much are planning on running 33-35" tires, and that lift height/tire size is a wonderful combination that will likely not require excessive fender/bumper trimming and/or rediculously extended bumpstops. HOWEVER... to SAFELY and RELIABLY wheel on 33-35" tires, the axles will need to be regeared (especially if you have a 4.0L w/ 3.55:1 gears), or better yet, completely replaced with stronger axles capable of handling the loads that these bigger tires impose upon them. I swapped out my stock axles because I kept breaking them every time I went wheeling with my 33" tires...and even when my rig wasn't being wheeled, I was going through hubs and balljoints like crazy. I have ~4500$ in axle parts from doing my axle swap, and it would've cost a lot more had I not done all the work myself and made every single little bracket from scratch.

Control arm angles are another thing to consider. Anything above about 4" of lift makes for noticeably steep control arm angles. These steep angles suck because they do not allow the suspension to work properly. As the control arm angles get steeper, their bushings start to become the absorbers of vertical movement of the axle, which is supposed to be absorbed/dampened by the shock absorbers. Also, everytime a bump in the road is hit, the front axle not only travels up as usual, but it's also now forced to travel forward following the arc of the control arms pivoting at the frame...the more severe the CA angles, the more forward movement the front axle is forced to make when a bump is hit. This is not really a factor for the rear axle, as it is forced backwards when it goes up...which is much easier for it to do as the vehicle is traveling forward. Taking note of this should make it easy to understand why steep CA angles result in poor ride quality.

Another thing to think about with a 5-6" lift is poor steering geometry. The inverted "Y" design of the stock ZJ steering works very well at stock ride height since the tie-rod and drag link are relatively close to parallel. As the vehicle is lifted, the tie-rod and drag link become more perpendicular. Due to the geometry of the inverted "Y" steering, the toe of the tires will change significantly when a bump is hit if the two links are not close to parallel. If you can't visualize why this happens, make a quick model of your stock steering with a couple pencils and notice how the ends of the links where the steering knuckles would be move together and apart as the "ride height" changes via the mock pitman arm. The rapidly changing toe angles of the front tires after hitting a bump is a primary source of the dreaded deathwobble.

Have you thought about driveshafts? Odds are good that with 5-6" of lift and stock axles, you will have a very difficult time adjusting the caster of the front axle correctly without introducing terrible vibrations from the front driveshaft. With a double-cardan style front driveshaft, the axle pinion should be pointed directly at the transfercase...if it is not, the driveshaft will likely vibrate like a *****...which will not only annoy the crap out of you, but it will also quickly wear out your driveshaft U-joints, pinion bearings, and transfercase output bearings (these vibrations may also result in female passengers reaching orgasm while riding in your jeep, but we all know the female orgasm is only an urban legend anyway). So since the front axle needs to be close to its stock orientation to maintain decent caster, the pinion will not be able to point at the t-case like it needs to.
The rear driveshaft is not as much of an issue as the front axle if adjustable lower rear control arms are used. Adjustable/longer control arms will allow you to rotate the rear axle back to a "level" (stock) position, and will result in proper d/s angles so that vibrations should be minimal.

There are several other things I could go into detail on, but they're not quite as significant as the issues stated above.
But basically what I'm trying to make a lot of you realize is something I've stated several times before: you can lift a grand to about 4" very easily, safely, and inexpensively...but lifting it the next couple inches is a huge step that opens a huge can of worms that will likely cost you a small fortune.

So if you are a newbie to wheeling grands and are curious about lifting it, I'd strongly recommend you keep it at 4" or less lift and 32" or smaller tires unless you are very dedicated to working on it and wish to spend obscene amounts of money on it to make it drive and wheel properly. Keep It Simple Stupid!

If ya'll don't understand some part of this or need further clarification on anything, or disagree with anything I've written, speak up and I'll gladly address your concerns.

-Ron-

rugermack · 02-17-2009, 02:09 PM

I noticed you quoted me, I don't plan on lifting mine more than 3-4". OP has the 6" idea. I want to run 31s", with 3-4" lift.

I do understand what your saying, I like my trucks/ jeeps to be proportional to thier size. My truck has 6' lift with 35s. A jeep looks good and usable for me with 31s" maybe 32s" with about 4" lift. Alot less money and parts this way. Luckily I have some time to think about this, and here some comments on brands.

As far as being a nube, I've been lifting/driving trucks/jeeps for almost 25 years. I'm just new to this particular site.

**Jones** · 02-17-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugermack

I noticed you quoted me, I don't plan on lifting mine more than 3-4". OP has the 6" idea. I want to run 31s", with 3-4" lift.

I do understand what your saying, I like my trucks/ jeeps to be proportional to thier size. My truck has 6' lift with 35s. A jeep looks good and usable for me with 31s" maybe 32s" with about 4" lift. Alot less money and parts this way. Luckily I have some time to think about this, and here some comments on brands.

As far as being a nube, I've been lifting/driving trucks/jeeps for almost 25 years. I'm just new to this particular site.

That is just from the FAQ's, I didn't mean to direct it at anyone. Sorry.

rugermack · 02-17-2009, 02:55 PM

My ZJ will only see mild 4X4ing, when I go hunting. When I was younger I learned the cost of getting the "highest lift/tires". I'll stay away from that, it gets mighty expensive. Plus if you ever sell the vehicle, you lose alot of money in those upgrades.

waarp8nt · 02-17-2009, 04:01 PM

I've pretty much got the lift your talking about...on a 95 ZJ with a 5.2L

Mine is RC and it is the front off of an XJ and the front springs off of my ZJ to the back for a total of about 4" of lift. XJ RC shocks in the front and New RC ZJ shocks in the rear and steering stab. Got a XJ front adj track bar and a TJ rear bracket for the track bar. XJ lower front control arms and factory rear control arms. About all I have left to get is front disconnects and was going to make a longer set of rear links.

The reason for this is I got the XJ front for $150 including the adj. track bar. Plus the extra's from Rough Country aren't nearly as expensive as a lot of other places. For example the TJ rear track bar bracket is only $17 and the TJ disconnects are only $50 (yet to purchase). All worked well and only heated the TJ track bar bracket slightly to get it to bend into place so it could be bolted down.

Guess what I'm saying is if $$$ is a problem you can part together a kit pretty reasonable. You may even want to check into parting one together since you've already got a V8 and the springs can be used in the front springs can be used in the rear. Otherwise the extras that you will need, but don't come with the kit are not all that expensive from RC.

Mine has 31X10.5 tires and it drives great down the road. A friend of mine has 33" tires on his YJ and he is willing to let me run them to see how they fit when his jeep goes down for repairs (needs engine work). I'm thinking I'll need control arms for the rear if we try the 33" tires.

am9010 · 02-17-2009, 05:19 PM

Thanks for the advice I've decided i'm going to do what xgerstandtx did seems like a solid setup

by the way xgerstandtx, was that flexing pic with the pins pulled? cause that looks damn good.

xgerstandtx · 02-17-2009, 11:19 PM

yes the pins are pulled on my sway bars. i did a home made setup on these and it works realy well for me you can get a hinge pin and large"bodyclip" from your local hardware store. Post up some pictures and let us know how it works .
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=233814#post233814