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Unread 11-11-2013, 05:22 AM   #1
kirkham715
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Performance Hi Flow Water pumps - yea or nay

I have little or no experience with water pumps, fans, fan clutches, flex fans, electric fans and auxiliary fans, but I am beginning to look into them to install in my '95 ZJ V8- so if any of you care to add your advice on any of these as far as doing it or not, brands to use, cautions etc. I would be grateful

I am currently installing hood vents to lower compartment and cabin heat and am looking for any fixes that will further cool the engine compartment and engine and improve A/C and other systems.

I am on my 4th water pump in the last 150K miles - all standard ones. Would I be better looking at the better/higher flow models such as GMB, FlowKool, Edelbrok etc, The prices seem to be 2-4x the standard price, but if they are better I am willing.
I have not heard much good for flex fans.
Most guys here are pretty pro electric fans and I am willing to do that move, but have also seen ads for a second add on aux. fan to improve cooling - does that mean running 2 fans at once - will that help?

I am also interested in insulation of engine items and spray on insulation for under hood ad sides of compartment and inner doors but I will leave that for another thread
Love all you input - I am in learning mode here and thisty for your knowledge - Thank you so much

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Unread 11-11-2013, 07:51 AM   #2
PolkaPower
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The biggest improvement for cooling my motor came from bypassing the stock transmission cooler in the radiator and installing a large auxiliary cooler for the trans. My temp for the motor runs between the 210* and the mark below that. So 195*-200* with a stock 195 T stat. Flowcooler used to be crappy but they revised their impeller design and now they are good to use. I think Kolak sells them. I use a stock water pump because it gets pretty cold here sometimes. If I lived in the desert I would get a high flow pump.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 04:59 PM   #3
WJ4x4LIFE
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I am going to put my "what is worth, if any" anyway... To start off, FACT: the factory cooling system, if working properly and efficiently should not cause any issues with overheating at all!

Opinion:

O.K. back to the opinion, If you are going through standard water pumps like underwear, then something is obvious wrong, could be a few things, craftsmanship of product, other cooling issues, or installer issue. I am not one to believe in "High" volume/flow this and that, but each to their own, I feel.

Best option:

I would be more likely to convert to (a single or dual electric fan set-up w/fan clutch system), rather than a "high volume/flow" water pump. If towing/severe duty is taking place with the vehicle. If not, there should be no reason to add or subtract any other component/s to the party with or without an issue.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 05:49 PM   #4
coralman
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If he is buying standard aftermarket pumps I can see his probs. I would also make sure you are not over tightening the belt. A belt deflection gauge like a Kricket will give a good reading or at least close until you get the feel for it. The twist method works too. I was eating pumps until I bought a mopar pump. Electrolysis can wreak havoc on pump impellers as well. As WJ said sometimes "high flow" may not be the best choice because some say you need dwell time in the radiator to cool properly. I would get the stock system in tip top shape,flushed out, new hoses and stat, no trash between the condensor and radiator, all pulleys checked and inline, and a good quality pump while that may be hard to do aftermarket. Jeeps hold heat under the hood pretty much no matter what you do. The vents will lessen it. I used to think a time delay OFF electric fan was a good idea until I kept seeing people jumping dead batteries cause the relay stuck on.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 06:06 PM   #5
kirkham715
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thanks WJ4x4Life and coralman
- no longer towing or off road. My past 3 or 4 water pumps maybe lasted 40-50K miles each so I assume I may have to install another in the near future. My ZJ does not usually overheat and in the few cases, a new thermostat and radiator cap and flush worked.
My bigger concern has always been the A/C which has never been more than minimally effective in cooling the cabin. I am in Los Angeles with many 100 degree days. Engine temps seem to be getting worse when I am using the A/C. I usually am about 185 degrees without the A/C and 215 with the A/C on and car moving. However at idle or stop and go traffic, the temp with A/C on goes to 245 and above, so A/C has to be shut down during those times. I am also wondering if A/C compressor can be at fault is becoming more of a strain on the car or is the car at fault for not being able to handle the A/C load.
I fully intend to move to an electric fan, but am looking at anything else that will help. I have new radiator since last year when somebody's bumper broke my grill and radiator. Car otherwise running well for being a '95 with 225K miles
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Unread 11-11-2013, 06:17 PM   #6
PolkaPower
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You can't over tighten the belt on the V8. It's auto tensioned. Maybe your clutch fan isn't working too well. Mine never overheated with ac on full in the Las Vegas heat. Also make sure all the air is out of the system. That will cause it to heat up rapidly. An E fan will help keep it cool sitting in traffic better than the clutch fan will.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 06:20 PM   #7
WJ4x4LIFE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkham715 View Post
thanks WJ4x4Life and coralman
- no longer towing or off road. My past 3 or 4 water pumps maybe lasted 40-50K miles each so I assume I may have to install another in the near future. My ZJ does not usually overheat and in the few cases, a new thermostat and radiator cap and flush worked.
My bigger concern has always been the A/C which has never been more than minimally effective in cooling the cabin. I am in Los Angeles with many 100 degree days. Engine temps seem to be getting worse when I am using the A/C. I usually am about 185 degrees without the A/C and 215 with the A/C on and car moving. However at idle or stop and go traffic, the temp with A/C on goes to 245 and above, so A/C has to be shut down during those times. I am also wondering if A/C compressor can be at fault is becoming more of a strain on the car or is the car at fault for not being able to handle the A/C load.
I fully intend to move to an electric fan, but am looking at anything else that will help. I have new radiator since last year when somebody's bumper broke my grill and radiator. Car otherwise running well for being a '95 with 225K miles
WOW, now that is H-O-T!


Now, of course in all vehicles turning on the A/C system will increase the temperature of any vehicle as it is under a larger load of work. I can only see you getting that HOT even with the temperature at 100'F & up by losing some sort of fluid somewhere. I live in TX and although I do see 90-104' during summer with my A/C ice cold, I never see either of my Jeeps reach 200'F on the gauge. As the member above posted, I would see about that belt not tighten enough (something loose). I would also see about air flow between the radiator/condenser, maybe some trash or leaves. Another view is the A/C clutch on the compressor giving out or jammed causing HOT issues!
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Unread 11-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #8
Jpbooth
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I have a Flowkooler on my jeep. So far I like it. It helped with keeping the temps down. Also I ran an electric fan on my jeep for a few years, first I did the Taurus swap which I hated because the high setting would suck my electronics dry. So then I went to two 10 inch 2400 cfm fans and they fixed the electronics issue, but wouldn't cool the engine. So low and behold I went back to the stock clutch fan. Cools very well except when in traffic with the a/c is on. So I took one of the 10 inch fans I had and made it a pusher to kick on with the a/c. Jeep won't go past 195-200 ish even in Florida heat.

I do have hood vent and I love them. It actually helped with the floor boards getting hot. Doesn't really happen any more.

Hopefully some of this helps.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #9
bigbill888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkham715 View Post
the A/C which has never been more than minimally effective in cooling the cabin.
System probably needs charging. Easy DIY task
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Unread 11-12-2013, 05:10 AM   #10
coralman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
You can't over tighten the belt on the V8. It's auto tensioned. Maybe your clutch fan isn't working too well. Mine never overheated with ac on full in the Las Vegas heat. Also make sure all the air is out of the system. That will cause it to heat up rapidly. An E fan will help keep it cool sitting in traffic better than the clutch fan will.
4.0 in brain polka, thanks for catching it.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #11
PolkaPower
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4.0 in brain polka, thanks for catching it.
I do the same but the opposite.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #12
pageman
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if you want optimum coooling operation first a flush and clean all the crap out of the system. a new higher pressure rad cap or a new one(the easiest to over look but plays very important factor) if the rad is in great operational condition refill the cooling system with 75% distilled water 25% anti freeze and a bottle of redline watter wetter( this is for non freezing climate ONLY) and a huge help do the taurus e fan conversion(i just ran mine high setting to ignition and a kill switch inside for starting and in deep water). with all of these steps my motor stays at 185 degrees all day wether wheeling over rocks or stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and im a v8. i run my factory water pump and it hasent failed at 200k miles and my other zj with 146k i replaced with a advanced auto pump and have had no isses at all. with all my mods i dont even need a high flow water pump heck my younger zj has a stinking mitsubishi 3000gt single ebay fan and it stays at a 100% constant 210 and with a oe equivilant radiator would be bteer but i dont want to do 2 fan conversions( to lazy haha)
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Unread 11-12-2013, 12:57 PM   #13
PolkaPower
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Originally Posted by pageman View Post
if you want optimum coooling operation first a flush and clean all the crap out of the system. a new higher pressure rad cap or a new one(the easiest to over look but plays very important factor) if the rad is in great operational condition refill the cooling system with 75% distilled water 25% anti freeze and a bottle of redline watter wetter( this is for non freezing climate ONLY) and a huge help do the taurus e fan conversion(i just ran mine high setting to ignition and a kill switch inside for starting and in deep water). with all of these steps my motor stays at 185 degrees all day wether wheeling over rocks or stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and im a v8. i run my factory water pump and it hasent failed at 200k miles and my other zj with 146k i replaced with a advanced auto pump and have had no isses at all. with all my mods i dont even need a high flow water pump heck my younger zj has a stinking mitsubishi 3000gt single ebay fan and it stays at a 100% constant 210 and with a oe equivilant radiator would be bteer but i dont want to do 2 fan conversions( to lazy haha)
Sounds like your T stat is stuck open. When I had a 180* T stat in mine that got stuck open, it ran at about that temp as well. Sucked in winter when it wouldn't heat up enough for the cabin heat to work right.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 05:03 PM   #14
pageman
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im almost positive it is removed but since i live in sunny never frozen florida i never got around to checking it.when i finish my 231 swap ill replace it since its super cheap and easy
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Unread 11-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #15
coralman
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Lol,its cold tonight in floribama. South florida thinks we are part of alabama. We hardly ever get to even win the lotto.
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