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Unread 05-15-2013, 12:12 PM   #1
ilive4cars0122
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1998 ZJ 
 
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Hey guys so for a while now my gauges have been working intermittently. For the past week however, they haven't been at all. Now what happens is that every time my gauges don't work, the windows and overhead temp display don't work, and my factory security light comes on. My gauges do light up with the headlights on and usually, but not always are working for a split second upon start up before dying. Also when this issue happens my dome lights and floor courtesy lights stay on after locking the vehicle. My negative battery cable is clean and tight. I have wiggled pretty much every wire harness in the driver door, under the dash, and under the hood with no luck. A few months I would say before this started happening, I spliced a new section of wire going to the ignition coil, although I don't know why that would matter. I have even removed the BCM and cleaned the circuit panels with rubbing alcohol and q-tips as described in the thread to fix the coolant sensor bad message although he resoldered the VIC first. ANY help is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone

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Unread 05-15-2013, 12:14 PM   #2
ilive4cars0122
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Oh by the way...sometimes NOT always, if I push down on every fuse in the relay box under the hood and then try starting the truck, the gauges will work for a split second before dying. It's a 98 grand cherokee 5.9 btw.
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Unread 05-15-2013, 03:22 PM   #3
ratmonkey
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yep, sounds like the bcm is probably bad.
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Unread 05-15-2013, 06:37 PM   #4
ilive4cars0122
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Today, I went out and upon leaving the store after a week or more with this problem...it suddenly fixed itself again. Later I received some help from my brother who works with wiring on cars as a living. He unplugged each front door and the gauges were still working. Then he checked wires and wiggled them as I watched the gauges. These wires were under the relay box in the engine bay and under the interior fuses of the kick panel. He then pulled each fuse of the relay box in the engine bay. THE FUSE THAT MADE THE GAUAGES DIE WAS THE MUX/T-TOW fuse. Then he went inside and there was a big wiring harness running horizontal under the glove box. When he unplugged this the gauges took a second to die but they died every time he tried this. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHERE TOWARD THE MIDDLE/DRIVER DASH THIS HARNESS GOES? He thinks there is a module further along that is affecting the gauges because the passenger side of this horizontal harness has power continued from under the hood area. WHEN HE UNPLUGGED ONE HARNESS AT A TIME OF THE BCM, THE TRUCK WOULD NOT STAY RUNNING. Obviously my truck runs but simply doesn't have gauges, windows, overhead temp, and dome lights stay on when the problem happens. Thanks all
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Unread 05-15-2013, 07:15 PM   #5
KoreaZJ
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PCM, BCM, and several other components (including those not working) all communicate with each other over twisted-pair CCD bus wires.

Any of these components could hang up the CCD bus traffic.

Overhead console
Instrument cluster gauges
ATC control panel
VIC
Radio
Memory seat module
Driver door module
Passenger door module
BCM
PCM

Unplugging each (except BCM/PCM) may help isolate your problem. Start with the easy ones.

Or it may be as simple as damaged/shorted CCD bus wiring to a front door.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #6
ilive4cars0122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreaZJ
PCM, BCM, and several other components (including those not working) all communicate with each other over twisted-pair CCD bus wires.

Any of these components could hang up the CCD bus traffic.

Overhead console
Instrument cluster gauges
ATC control panel
VIC
Radio
Memory seat module
Driver door module
Passenger door module
BCM
PCM

Unplugging each (except BCM/PCM) may help isolate your problem. Start with the easy ones.

Or it may be as simple as damaged/shorted CCD bus wiring to a front door.
Thanks for the help. I haven't had too much time to fiddle with this yet, but will try to this weekend. I think my brother when he helped me unplugged those CCD bus wires under the glovebox and It didn't do anything until he unplugged a bigger plug in the same area. I can probably eliminate the door modules and bcm as mentioned. The wiring to the front doors were checked as well unless its broken inside insulation.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #7
Redsand
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As you saw in my own thread I am having this problem also. My gauges do not work, as well as my overhead console. Although, my windows are working perfectly fine. I feel your pain
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Unread 05-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #8
AVR2
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When you say the overhead temp display doesn't work, do you mean the screen is completely blank? Or are you getting the compass display but something else in place of the temp readout?

The overhead console gets its temp data over the CCD bus via the ATC module. If it detects a fault on the bus it will actually display "CCD" where the temp readout should be. If you remove the ATC module it will display "OC" (open circuit).

In other words, if the display is completely blank, it's probably not a CCD issue, since the compass/temp module isn't reliant on the CCD bus for power.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 09:49 PM   #9
ilive4cars0122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR2
When you say the overhead temp display doesn't work, do you mean the screen is completely blank? Or are you getting the compass display but something else in place of the temp readout?

The overhead console gets its temp data over the CCD bus via the ATC module. If it detects a fault on the bus it will actually display "CCD" where the temp readout should be. If you remove the ATC module it will display "OC" (open circuit).

In other words, if the display is completely blank, it's probably not a CCD issue, since the compass/temp module isn't reliant on the CCD bus for power.
I get the compass and all other functions of the overhead console, except the temperature reads --
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Unread 05-18-2013, 02:45 AM   #10
AVR2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilive4cars0122 View Post
I get the compass and all other functions of the overhead console, except the temperature reads --
OK, then it's pointing to the CCD bus - either a bus power failure, or corrupt data. I don't have the pinout for the 98 ZJ overhead console connector, you will need to check for voltage/ground on CCD+ and CCD-. If you're getting proper power, then chances are the fault is due to a bad module somewhere on the bus causing data corruption.

If you can beg or borrow use of a DRB3 scan tool you can get useful information on the state of the bus; I have the diagnostic manual for the 93-95 CCD bus, and there are 11 possible error states for it.
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Unread 07-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #11
ilive4cars0122
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Hey guys just wanted to update you all to anyone who cares. I took apart my whole dash looking for short/loose wires etc and found nothing. After everything I took apart the bcm yet again and examined the circuit boards. A couple contacts looked a bit black and crusty where there was solder. I GENTLY scraped the black stuff off leaving the solder just fine. So far for about 3-4 weeks now I haven't had the no gauges/windows/overhead console issue. Lets hope it stays that way.
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Unread 07-22-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
ilive4cars0122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR2
OK, then it's pointing to the CCD bus - either a bus power failure, or corrupt data. I don't have the pinout for the 98 ZJ overhead console connector, you will need to check for voltage/ground on CCD+ and CCD-. If you're getting proper power, then chances are the fault is due to a bad module somewhere on the bus causing data corruption.

If you can beg or borrow use of a DRB3 scan tool you can get useful information on the state of the bus; I have the diagnostic manual for the 93-95 CCD bus, and there are 11 possible error states for it.
You wouldn't happen to know the error states for a 98 would you? Do you know what a drb3 scan tool would show somewhat? Will it show something only if the problem is happening then or will it show past faults? Thanks
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Unread 07-24-2013, 05:05 PM   #13
ilive4cars0122
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So I have around 8-9 volts on my CCD bus wires at the obd connector. I so far unplugged both door modules, memory seat module, overhead console and such to narrow down my issue. I'm still reading the same voltage. The voltage should be around 2.5 or something correct? Does anyone know if there is one module that feeds each of the others or if they are connected 1 module to another to the next? Thanks guys all help is appreciated as my jeep won't stay running now.
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Unread 07-24-2013, 05:09 PM   #14
AVR2
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OK, I've dug out my 93-95 body diagnostic procedures manual, which covers troubleshooting the overhead console. The basic principles here probably apply to the 98 as well.

First off, do the self-test check on the console. With the ignition off, press and hold the "Step" and "US/M" buttons, then while holding them down turn the ignition on. All the display segments should light. If they don't, the module is bad and has to be replaced.

If it passes that test, connect the DRB to the body diagnostic connector, select "Body System" and then "Compass/Mini-Trip".

The DRB will now check that the CCD bus is working and if it is, it will show "Bus Operational" and attempt to contact the overhead console module. If there's a problem with the bus, you won't see "Bus Operational", you'll get a CCD error message - see below.

Assuming the bus is working, you'll either see some kind of message about the overhead console module (the manual doesn't actually specify), or "No Response". If you get "No Response" then the problem could either be with the module itself or the CCD bus, and there's a specific sequence of tests to do to determine which.

Since they involve checking voltages and resistances and the 98 wiring and module are different to the 93-95, you really need to refer to the 98 manual for more information. It's possible that the DRB3 has extra diagnostics that let you avoid having to do any multimeter work.

These are the 93-95 CCD error messages:

Short to battery
Short to ground
Short to 5 volts
Bus + and - shorted together
No termination
Bus bias level too low
Bus bias level too high
No bus bias
Bus + open
Bus - open
Not receiving bus messages correctly

Note that the most common reason for the "bus bias" and "bus open" messages is having the ignition off during the bus test.

From personal experience, I was getting constant "bus open" messages even though I had the key on. Then I found the DRB option to monitor the CCD bus voltage levels in real time, and wiggled the connector while I watched.

Bingo! There was something loose somewhere, and with a bit of manipulation of the connector I was able to get the bus + and - lines to hold within their working voltage range (2.3 to 2.6 volts) and the magic "Bus Operational" message came up.
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Unread 01-24-2014, 10:37 PM   #15
ilive4cars0122
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Just to put a solved on this thread and give a thank you to all those who helped...the problem was a 455t doorlock interface bypass module that was hooked up with my viper security/remote start that must have been sending bad signals. The 455t uses the data system to unlock/lock the doors and such. My brother who hooked it up initially way before these problems (he is a professional car audio/starter installer) tore it out for me. I bought a new one (very hard to find and often expensive) from ebay hooked it up, and haven't had any issues in just about 4 months now.
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