[xbeakerx]

Originally Posted by gabrod72

I'm not going to knock your attempt at a recovery point for the front, and I think your D rings will probably hold. As suggested, you need to look into a way to put a metal plate with nuts welded onto them to reinforce the mounts if you haven't done so already. The only thing I'd improve on it is to cut off or severely shorten the center ball mount. My reason behind this is you're killing your approach angle and it will get hung up on things.

It actually isn't sticking out very far and I have already shortened it once by cutting 3-4 inches off. It shouldn't be an issue and if I put the bumper back on which I might not, it doesn't sit outside of the bumper any.

I have made a plate to put in there. I just don't have a picture of it.

Now this was a positive comment, Thank you.

[gabrod72]

No worries. I use similar d-rings and have pulled out lots of larger rigs with them. I used square tube 2x2 stacked into 4x2 and they're welded together, then ground down and slid into my unibody rails at the front. I'm missing my front bumper that used to be part of the unibody so my front bumper is also a structural support - more important for me to shoot through on both sides. I did notice you cut it much shorter and removed the chain rings, but I made my comment just because I'm very sensitive to improving approach angle... really helps get you up all kinds of stuff on the trails. When you're there, you should maximize it if possible. Whenever I get around to getting a winch, I'll make a 2x2 hole mount for it to be removable (also helps if you ever need to use it in the rear.)

[pincheburro956]

Beaker, its better than what you had. Keep it at that...Dont listen to haters on here....

[ratmonkey]

Originally Posted by WhiteOut

Take that off, seriously. I can understand the reason behind you doing this but it is not the correct way to do it.

1. The trailer hitch is off a car, most likely it has a 2,000lb rating. Your Jeep weighs about 4,000 give or take. Add in the shock and stress that is associated with a recovery and you are WAY past the failure point.

2. Your method of attaching it to the Jeep is below even what the stock hooks use. I bet you did not put a plate on the insde of the frame rail and there are no bolts running up into the rail from the bottom.

3. The D-rings, there is no way to attach a strap to them.

4. It doesn't look like the material was cleaned before welding, an apprentice welder would know to do this.

Pretty much this right here.

Originally Posted by xbeakerx

Why is it that just about everyone on this forum bashes anything that isn't the norm(ei. factory tow hooks or Kevin's) and feels like that they have to be a downer and not a contributor when it comes to something new. I made this to make an alternative to those that can't afford $150+ or have to fight someone to get the factory tow hooks in the junkyard. Yes, its a little crude in some places but isn't that how every great invention starts out. You are nothing but a nuisance to this forum.

1. Yes it "HAD" a rating of 2000lbs max before it got cut it up, shortened the receiver and welded it to the Radiator Support. I have no idea what the max is now but I'm sure it is what the ZJ weighs.

rating comes from material thickness and attachment points.
You did not improve either.

2. How is it lower that what The factory hooks attach. Being that the whole thing is welded to the RS and bolted up to the vehicle in all the same places as the factory does. I would say its better than the factory tow hooks which was my goal. I didn't remove the bolts in the Radiator Support, I only had it welded it to it. Which means if i have to take it off then I just remove the RS and the 8 bolts and its off.

The factory hooks attach in two planes and use sandwich plates. Your solution does not. Therefore it is weaker than the 10k # rating the two factory hooks when used together.

3. I will be using the method of "choking" with a strap, are you familiar with this method? If not, you must be new to offroading. The Eye hooks were from the previous owner and I just haven't taken the time to remove them.

Choking a strap in that manner can reduce it's capacity up to half.

4. He used a ARC welder which if you knew anything about welding you would know that it is a higher temperature welder which breaks through rust and paint. We did clean most of the spots he welded but I'm sure I missed some spots but was told that it would be ok. The man has been welding his entire life and just about everyone in the area goes to him. Show some respect.

Being an arc welder had absolutely nothing to do with being able to skip your metal prep. There's about two types of electrode that allow you to burn repairs effectively through rust, grease, and oil, i can tell by the slag he left on there he wasn't using those. His horizontal work is a bit iffy for a "master welder" too.

I'm done with my rant and I might be done with this forum if this type of attitude continues.

You obviously don't want to hear from those of us with experience fabricating on our Jeeps, and those of us like me that earn or paychecks in industrial fabrication.
No one likes being told their idea was terrible or they put effort into something destined to fail, but it happens. You got to learn somehow. We'd prefer you not getting hurt seriously in the process though.

Originally Posted by pincheburro956

Beaker, its better than what you had. Keep it at that...Dont listen to haters on here....

What he had wasn't likely to kill someone or ruin their vehicle.

[xbeakerx]

So please tell me what is the difference between Kevin's and mine.


All theirs is a Radiator Support with 4 extra bolts(two on each side).


Mine has 8 bolts on each side with it welded to the radiator support(which makes it as one with the RS).



I want to get this straight of the people that don't read all the posts. These were never for towing. These were installed by the previous owner to tie down his kayak on the roof.

[Erbo1Kanerbo]

i would not let you pull me out/ i would not recover you from that tow point...just sayin

[speedbucket]

You put alot of effort into something that when pulled on will create a sheer load on the rail vs a pulling load. You had enough steel to build something like what I did that is effective and cheap. Mine cost me about 40$ with the giant shackles.
1/4" plate sandwhiching the frame rail from inside and out with hardened fasteners.

[samsonitesamson]

Originally Posted by xbeakerx

So please tell me what is the difference between Kevin's and mine.


All theirs is a Radiator Support with 4 extra bolts(two on each side).


Mine has 8 bolts on each side with it welded to the radiator support(which makes it as one with the RS).



I want to get this straight of the people that don't read all the posts. These were never for towing. These were installed by the previous owner to tie down his kayak on the roof.

In case you weren't paying attention KOR's is bolted on 2 PLANES, not 1.

[WhiteOut]

Originally Posted by xbeakerx

Why is it that just about everyone on this forum bashes anything that isn't the norm(ei. factory tow hooks or Kevin's) and feels like that they have to be a downer and not a contributor when it comes to something new. I made this to make an alternative to those that can't afford $150+ or have to fight someone to get the factory tow hooks in the junkyard. Yes, its a little crude in some places but isn't that how every great invention starts out. You are nothing but a nuisance to this forum.

1. Yes it "HAD" a rating of 2000lbs max before it got cut it up, shortened the receiver and welded it to the Radiator Support. I have no idea what the max is now but I'm sure it is what the ZJ weighs.

2. How is it lower that what The factory hooks attach. Being that the whole thing is welded to the RS and bolted up to the vehicle in all the same places as the factory does. I would say its better than the factory tow hooks which was my goal. I didn't remove the bolts in the Radiator Support, I only had it welded it to it. Which means if i have to take it off then I just remove the RS and the 8 bolts and its off.

3. I will be using the method of "choking" with a strap, are you familiar with this method? If not, you must be new to offroading. The Eye hooks were from the previous owner and I just haven't taken the time to remove them.

4. He used a ARC welder which if you knew anything about welding you would know that it is a higher temperature welder which breaks through rust and paint. We did clean most of the spots he welded but I'm sure I missed some spots but was told that it would be ok. The man has been welding his entire life and just about everyone in the area goes to him. Show some respect.

I'm done with my rant and I might be done with this forum if this type of attitude continues.

It's not bashing something that is not the norm. It is pointing out very real design issues that casue a safety hazard and have the ability to severely injure or kill someone.

1. It had a rating of 2000lbs, it still does. When used together, the stock hooks have a rating of 10,000lbs and people still manage to bend them doing recovery. Your setup will never be close to even half of the factory tow hook rating. How does welding it to stamped sheet metal triple its strength?

2. Same problem here. Yes, there are 4 bolts in the factory holes and it is welded to a piece of stamped 10 gauge sheet metal. The welds on the rad support are most likely weaker than properly bolting it on would have been. Lack of sandwich plates in the frame is also an issue.

3. Choking a strap is never the prefered way to do a recovery since it has to be properly de-rated based on position and angle. So your 10,000lb strap is now a 7,500lb strap or even a 5,000lb strap.

Lastly, properly bolting is prefered to welding. There is a reason the stock hooks are not welded, you don't weld a winch in position, you don't weld a trailer hitch.

In the end, you are free to do what you want. Is saving the $50 more that factory hooks would have cost worth even the risk of having this come apart? Regardless, any cursory tech inspection will fail these.

[xbeakerx]

Originally Posted by samsonitesamson

In case you weren't paying attention KOR's is bolted on 2 PLANES, not 1.

I guess neither were you. Mine is bolted to frame rail and welded to the RS. Instead of bolting it to the RS I welded it to it, which in my opinion would hold up a lot better.

I almost did the frame rail tow point but I didn't like it because of the chance of a side pull might bend it.

Today I'm adding gussets and adding more welds. I also have taken some of the people on here suggestions but like I said this was a crude design.

I was looking for positive feedback from everyone here but I see it now that most of you are just nothing but negative to anyone that are trying to do something different and this isn't the first time have seen this on the forums.

[xbeakerx]

I have asked to have this thread closed. If you have any questions or more negative comments you can PM me.

I will no longer be publicly bashed on here for trying something new.

[gabrod72]

I think what people are trying to say is looking at the idea, it's a good one but the approach needs to be much stronger for it to be trusted. I've had things fail around me during recovery and steel flying at your or someone else's vehicle is no fun. Why don't you test it and post comments?

Basically get a strap and find a tree. Put it in 4 lo and gently nudge the d-rings.... at least if something flies off it will be going towards the tree and if it doesn't, you'll have some new found confidence in your recovery points.

[WhiteOut]

Originally Posted by gabrod72

I think what people are trying to say is looking at the idea, it's a good one but the approach needs to be much stronger for it to be trusted. I've had things fail around me during recovery and steel flying at your or someone else's vehicle is no fun.

Find the thread where FCZJ built his and copy it. I think he was under $100 for his

[JohnnyZJ]

Originally Posted by xbeakerx

I guess neither were you. Mine is bolted to frame rail and welded to the RS. Instead of bolting it to the RS I welded it to it, which in my opinion would hold up a lot better.

I almost did the frame rail tow point but I didn't like it because of the chance of a side pull might bend it.

Today I'm adding gussets and adding more welds. I also have taken some of the people on here suggestions but like I said this was a crude design.

I was looking for positive feedback from everyone here but I see it now that most of you are just nothing but negative to anyone that are trying to do something different and this isn't the first time have seen this on the forums.

gussets and more weld will not make it stronger.

if you want to make this feasible, put a bolt plate inside the framerail to 'sandwich' the unibody sheet metal frame. that will make your mounting points stronger because sandiwching the sheetmetal increases the strength of the mounting surface. this is important on unibody jeeps.

important step 2 is to take off that 'hitch' thing, and replace it with something stronger. some 2"x4" tube or something along those lines. weld that into your mounts. that will be essentially 'boxing' the front of your unibody (like a proper hitch) and you can pull off that. then bolt on your towhooks from there.

the 'hitch' you have is nothing more than a piece of flatstock and when forces are applied to it that are not direct (like directly behind a car) pull it will bend and the welds will likely fail. you will get one good sidepull out of this setup, then likely have a hitch missile to deal with when it gets ripped off.
its salvagable though, and you can make it work

lastly, take the 'bashing' with a grain of salt. imagine what would happen if this were ripped off on the trail and oh, i don't know, went through someones rear window. would you fix the window for the person cause your mod failed? what about if they got hurt because of it? would you feel guilty?

yes these are long shot scenarios. but when you ignore them is when you end up on a trail waiting for the Medevac helicopter to come in and ship someone out.

how do i know they happen? because i watched a towhook get ripped out of a guys 'custom' winch bumper last year, and it became a missile that went through the rear window AND out the front windshield.

call me a loser for promoting safety; i don't really care. but you need to at least be made aware of it.

[AlphaLorde]

Sometimes you need to be open to criticism. Sometimes other people recognize and notice things you don't/didn't think of.

This would be a safety issue for you and others. Welding to the radiator support has no real structural strength for being pulled on. When you attach to the frame, with a unibody you need to sandwich the rail.

Welding something doesn't make something stronger.

But you know all beaker and IMO I'm glad I will not be wheelin with you. Take it or leave it.

Wheelin is a very opinionated sport and there is always someone that knows more. Just remember that, and you'll be better off