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Unread 06-29-2013, 10:13 PM   #16
JBrady5555
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Tomorrow I'm gonna get to cleaning the sludge out with a spoon and a shop vac. One thread I researched talked about removing the rockers and push rods so you have more room to clean. As a novice is it advised for me to do this? Is there any special adjustments to do besides just torqueing the rocker arm nuts? Thanks in advance for anymore advice.

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Unread 06-29-2013, 10:48 PM   #17
LoveHate
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using sea foam in the oil before your oil change for 3 or so changes will clear up the sludge. but its also going to make any hidden leaks worse since the sludge forms a ghetto gasket.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 10:53 PM   #18
HandsOn
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While I'm a huge booster/fan of oil additives, especially for keeping internals clean and cleaning up mild cases of PO neglect, I've always been skeptical of using anything like that in situations as severe as yours.
Not speaking from experience here, but it you rely simply on the cleaners, you could dislodge more and bigger pieces of the stuff in a situation (running engine) that is not a good idea.
Now, doing it AFTER the initial cleanup, that's a great tool. But doing it as the cleanup, maybe not so much.

Again, no direct experience. Just thinking out loud and wondering what others have experienced.

As far as the rockers, I'm interested too. Haven't searched yet, but if they're non-adjustable "set it and forget it" types, then yeah, that's about all you'd have to do. Other than verify the number of turns or the torque, just to make sure they're still in as-specified condition per the manual.
It's usually considered a good idea to still run the bolts out and down when the rockers are at their cylinder's TDC compression position, but it's probably not an absolutely mandatory step.
I just don't like the idea of removing or reinstalling a rocker when it might be under full-open tension, is all.

But that's just me. And as I said, I'm not familiar enough with all the ins-and-outs of the 4.0 to dispense forth. Just talking and uttering what my experiences have been with other engines.
Hopefully this just keeps it up near the top where some experts in 4.0 valvetrain work can pop in for comment.

Keep the pictures coming during the process too by the way!
Love to see the results of your work.

Paul
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Unread 06-29-2013, 10:54 PM   #19
JBrady5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveHate View Post
using sea foam in the oil before your oil change for 3 or so changes will clear up the sludge. but its also going to make any hidden leaks worse since the sludge forms a ghetto gasket.
Thanks, I would welcome the hidden leaks showing themselves since I'm trying to fix anything and everything that I can. I also seen in my research that auto-rx is good.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #20
HandsOn
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Ghetto Gasket. That's a good one!
And so true. But finding a few new leaks is probably worth the extra work to keep the engine happy. Cleaning it up might even help it run cooler. Which in turn helps the oil last longer.
If it's been running hot for years under the PO's watch, that added to extended interval changes is probably what got it here in the first place.
That and/or cheap oils, lack of tune-ups, especially the PCV valve, all contribute.

And speaking of which, definitely replace the valve (even if it rattles) since you don't know it's age or history, and check clean/replace the tubing associated with the PCV system.

When you're done with the cleaning, THEN you can put some solvent fluids of whatever kind down all the orifices to help flush all that crud down to the pan and out with your change.
I think you mentioned it already, but are you planning to check the lower end by taking the pan off? I hope so. Might be a real eye-opener to see what's in there!

Paul
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Unread 06-29-2013, 11:15 PM   #21
MasterOne
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I would try to vacuum as much of that sludge up with a shop vac and a small attachment. I have used a toothbrush before also, vacuuming up sludge as I scraped it off. I've even used a drinking straw connected to a small shop vac attachment to get in hard to reach places. After the valve cover is back on, I would run a can of BG Quick Clean, followed by an oil change with synthetic oil and a can of BG MOA. I would also replace the PCV valve.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 11:22 PM   #22
JBrady5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsOn View Post

When you're done with the cleaning, THEN you can put some solvent fluids of whatever kind down all the orifices to help flush all that crud down to the pan and out with your change.
I think you mentioned it already, but are you planning to check the lower end by taking the pan off? I hope so. Might be a real eye-opener to see what's in there!

Paul
I would like to not take the pan off. I've never done that before on any vehicle plus I'm working under a tree on a dirt driveway.

That being said I guess I could. I have nothing but time since this is my off season from work. Plus I have to wait on my new header to arrive in the mail. I am interested in these diesel fuel flushes I've been reading about tonight. How would I go about that? Just pour it in the engine just like you would do an oil change? Let it sit overnight and drain it the next day, refill with oil and new filter after? Might be just what I need after I spoon out the junk in my valve train.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 11:23 PM   #23
MasterOne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrady5555 View Post
I also seen in my research that auto-rx is good.
Auto-RX was originally designed for printing machines, and not to be put in engines. If you're reading about it on the site I think you heard about it on, just keep in mind that the owner of Auto-RX was a site sponsor, and had paid posters on the forum to write great things about the product. If you search enough, you'll find plenty of threads about how Auto-RX did absolutely nothing, and there are pictures to boot to show that exact point.

Some people frown against solvent-based cleaners such as the one I listed above, but I know plenty of mechanics who use them and don't have comebacks. Steer clear of snake oil.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 11:28 PM   #24
JBrady5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOne View Post
Auto-RX was originally designed for printing machines, and not to be put in engines. If you're reading about it on the site I think you heard about it on, just keep in mind that the owner of Auto-RX was a site sponsor, and had paid posters on the forum to write great things about the product. If you search enough, you'll find plenty of threads about how Auto-RX did absolutely nothing, and there are pictures to boot to show that exact point.

Some people frown against solvent-based cleaners such as the one I listed above, but I know plenty of mechanics who use them and don't have comebacks. Steer clear of snake oil.
Thanks I did notice that the owner of auto-rx posted there alot. I'll do more research. Seems like diesel fuel flush and synthetic oil may be the way I go. After a few cheap oil, oil changes to make sure everything is clear of course.
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Unread 06-30-2013, 03:19 AM   #25
AVR2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrady5555 View Post
One thread I researched talked about removing the rockers and push rods so you have more room to clean. As a novice is it advised for me to do this?
It's easy, but it's essential that you keep everything you take off organised so that you can put it back exactly where you got it from (and pushrods need to be in their original orientation too, not swapped upside-down). There are no special adjustments when re-assembling, you just torque the rocker arm bolts to spec.

If it makes you feel any better, this guy had a sludge problem too:

4.0L cylinder head sludge
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Unread 06-30-2013, 04:00 AM   #26
xrunndonex
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Originally Posted by JBrady5555 View Post

Yea I'll probably use something like that in the post work oil change. What product will be best for such a bad sludge problem?
Seafoam
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Unread 06-30-2013, 04:45 AM   #27
Candymancan
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Just clean it up.... Geesh.. Yu think leaving it like that is going to help ? Uhh no.. Get a spoon or some kinda small spatula or something and clean it up all up as best you can.. Brake cleaner will deff clean that up really good and since its a spray with a little straw itll clean up the springs and everything.... That or Diesel fuel works really good I hear for cleaning up clogged lifters. But honestly I have found that brake cleaner cleans up really thick oil pretty damn good actually.. Get a cheap shop vac from sears.. they are like $35 use that to suck up the mess as you spray everything with brake cleaner.. Get like 4 cans of that stuff.. .. So clean that up, and drench the thing in diesel lol.. Then drop the oil pan and clean that up as best you can and put it all back together.. That is what I would do honestly..

Then I would fill it with synthetic oil and run hard it for like 500 miles then drain it again and replace the filter again.

If you watch this video he is doing exactly what I said to do.. You don't have to take your valve springs off.. he just took off the camshaft that's all honestly. ... Get a spoon or a long flat tip screw driver and scrap it all out and use brake cleaner to clean it all up and a shop vac with a tiny attachment to suck it all up.. If you even pause the video you will see he is using brake parts cleaner lol.. so yea do this..


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Unread 06-30-2013, 05:01 AM   #28
phitmein
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the old school way is replace the oil with kerosene which is a 10 weight oil and warm the engine up good then drain it and put in cheap oil and a new filter and change them both in a couple of hundred miles with good/better oil and a new filter .

you could also probably do a back to back kero. flush for very deep cleaning .

It's old school and don't trust me on it but do some Googling on it and see what you think .

I have done it a few times over the years and it worked very well for me .
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Unread 06-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #29
ZeeJay1997
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Whatever you do while you have it apart, run the diesel oil in it and use FL-1A oil filter because it has more capacity. Change filter after couple hundred miles. Change to more diesel oil after 500 miles.

You can monitor progress by cutting filters open to see what's in there.

When you get it all back together, make sure the crankcase vent is working. At idle, you should feel the vacuum on the front tube at the air breather.
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Unread 06-30-2013, 09:07 AM   #30
eagsc7
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Originally Posted by Candymancan View Post
Just clean it up.... Geesh.. Yu think leaving it like that is going to help ? Uhh no.. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC-SxrsgEwo
HOLY GUNK! Just watched Both videos(Part 1 and 2) with this issue. It's Amazing how people don't actually take care of their vehicles. I'm Now Adding this service to my jeep at the Next Oil change(will be at 300,000 Miles). It'll be FUN!?!?!
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