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Major problems with Classic Tube pre-bent brake lines.

7K views 45 replies 10 participants last post by  ricksheltra 
#1 ·
Not to duplicate threads but I'm trying to help another fellow member/friend out. I'm starting another thread since his comments/photos may be buried in his brake line thread.

Curious if anybody else has had problems with the Classic Tube pre-bent stainless steel brake line kits for a ZJ?

The Classic Tube website sure isn't much help and neither is their catalog. If you try to enter in a ZJ on their below site it only gives you the options for a Cherokee, Wrangler, and Wrangler TJ.

http://www.classictube.com/

Member ricksheltra had to talk to them directly to order a kit for his 97 5.2 and now it looks like they just threw a hodge-podge of lines in the box. The bends are not correct and he mentioned there's about 4 different size threaded fittings on the lines themselves most which don't fit.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/brake-lines-leaking-need-diagram-brake-lines-3693473/index6.html#post35273729

Classic Tube's "Bent on Perfection" sure doesn't seem to be the case here. And you would think in spending $230 on a kit they would get it right. Rick also has had little help in dealing with customer service through phone calls or emails.
Maybe Classic Tube is on it's way out as a business??

I also noticed in the below photo of his kit these hose connecting lines circled in red and I've never seen anything like this on a ZJ? Has anybody else?

Thanks for any comments or help in getting these problems resolved. Kit part numbers which may fit would also help.

Here's one of his brake line photos with the odd hose connecting lines. And these are not the hose to caliper lines for the front which don't come with his kit.
 

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#2 ·
i can only assume the lines in red are the flex lines that run from the master to the proportioning valve. as for the rest, line long folded line looks right for the rear shape wise, but if the threads aren't right then there isn't much you can do about any of them.

edit: i looked at the other thread and i'm not sure what the issue is? are the bends wrong or is it the flares/fittings that are suspect? they look like bubble flares on the lines, not great flares but serviceable. are the bends really off or just kinda off? i used a pre-bent line kit on my chevy truck and aside from a little tweaking, they fit fine. i wouldn't let a different hex size on the nut bother me as long as the thread was right.
 
#7 ·
I've been communicating with Rick via PM fairly often on his problems. He said there are 4 different thread sizes on the lines which doesn't seem right to me. Some are course and some are fine thread. Also to get some of the lines to bend into the right position he's on the verge of crimping them. And I'm not talking about bending the long lines out straight or to the position they're supposed to be in.

Granted this is his first brake line replacement but he's called Classic Tube for help and advice and has received very little. When he called on the threads being off the rep just said, "go buy some adapters", and that was it. And if he emails them on problems it may be 4 days before they answer if they respond at all. Just not good customer service and he's stuck with problems instead of good technical advice. Not what you would expect in buying a $230 pre-bent brake line kit.
 
#3 ·
I just want to comment since I was one of the people that recommended classic tube.

I had no problem with these lines for my Wrangler YJ, no problems ordering and no problems installing. I actually grew a bit concerned when he was having trouble with them on the telephone when originally ordering. He made it seem as if they couldn't be bothered with making a sale. Apparently, after making a sale, they also couldn't be bothered to make the correct kit.

Considering how much business is recommended for this company through this forum, I would expect they would want to make this right immediately.
 
#9 ·
Completely agree with what you're saying Mike! I wouldn't think a ZJ would be that much more complicated than a Wrangler. But as I mentioned before when you click on the model of Jeep on their webpage the ZJ doesn't even show up.

On his original phone order they even asked him which rear axle he had so you would have thought they'd get it right. Guess not and not a good situation or the way to do business!
 
#6 ·
Ok, I did some more searching around and did find those lines/hoses circled in red. According to the 94-96 ZJ parts list they're, "Hose assembly, Combo valve to HCU, primary & secondary."

One of the reasons I didn't recognize them is the hose fittings/crimps look so big and it has black brake hose on it.

I went out and looked at my 96 4.0 and sure enough they're buried under there. But mine have a real small stainless steel sheath on them which can't be any bigger than 3/8" diameter. Guess I didn't even recognize this as a hose since the transition from line to hose is so well done.

I took a couple photos and not easy to focus in the dark with other parts closer. The red arrows point out the stainless steel sheathing on the hose.
 

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#8 ·
I'm not a dealer for their parts but I've referred a lot of people to them over the years. They've always had a great reputation for quality and service.

Maybe someone should email them a link to this thread so they know about the frustration and that it's being discussed in open forum...
 
#10 ·
I'm not a dealer for their parts but I've referred a lot of people to them over the years. They've always had a great reputation for quality and service.

Maybe someone should email them a link to this thread so they know about the frustration and that it's being discussed in open forum...
Real good point! I told Rick to email a link to his other problem thread with photos and believe he did. I'll tell him to also send them a link to this one and if he doesn't I will.
 
#12 ·
Thanks to all of you for all this valuable input. If classic really is bent on perfection the right marketing guy will read this and realize while most orders might go ok the small ones are just as important.
I have been busy doing farming work (shearing the alpacas) and am done now. I was hoping for a call from classic however they seem to not really care. The person I talked to Larry seemed willing to help however didnt respond right away after I sent him pictures.
To be perfectly FRANK, if you will, I figured I would hold off on posting anything negative until I organized it or even better they just realized the mistake and replaced it and I could report they fixed it. Since it appears they will do nothing I will begin documentation tonight with pictures of the problems I am running into. I wonder if they realize you cant even find a kit number on the website for the zj. and Mike you are so right the point of buying a complete kit is NO ADAPTERS I mean come on to tell me , a customer Just go to napa and get the adapter WHAT!!!!! I took me an hour of back and forth to napa and still didnt have the correct thread
I could go on and on but I will save that for later and provide pictures so everyone can see what they are saying fits my zj.
thanks to this forum and UNI for the support.
rick
 
#13 ·
Summary of order from CLASSIC TUBE 97 ZJ w/ABS Dana 44A axle

Summary of CLASSIC TUBE ORDER of SS pre bent brake line tubing "kit" for 1997 ZJ 5.2 with ABS

After reading a very positive review from another member I went to the CLASSIC TUBE website and tried to find a model # for my Jeep ZJ.
The ZJ is not listed at all so I thought I would look into the company since there slogan or mission statement reads "BENT ON PERFECTION" Really sounded like a great solution to my problem.

I went to twitter and sent a message asking for some help with the website as far as getting correct model numbers. I think in this day and age a company would want to have the website be accurate for people to place orders or at least get accurate information however no answer for 3 days….and all comments are positive.

When a reply came I was asked several questions and sent pictures of axles to choose from i.e. Dana 44A (my Model)
I got on the jeep forum and asked the question along with a pic of my axel and confirmed 44a
I sent email to him with the requested info.
After waiting 3 days I didn't hear anything so I wrote another email and basically told him if you don't want to sell it to me just let me know and I will go somewhere else!

He answered in two days and said he apologized and I needed to call in as he is not at his desk to receive emails.

After thinking about it for a few days I decided to call in. The person who answered said he could take my order. I told him I was trying to make an order however the guy who I was talking to was too busy or having a bad day. He explained that the person"Don" was in the middle of changing positions and schedule is very busy…I just wanted brake lines and answered his questions about the specific vehicle and placed the order. He told me 2-3 weeks. That was the first time I heard about that kind of lead time however I needed the "KIT" .

It actually came the second week. I started with the master cylinder tubing

Had to remove the old lines first. Wasn't smart enough to just cut the lines (that I will throw away anyway) so I could get a socket on it. I tried to use wrenchs and they started rounding out. I gave up and used vice grips as I still didn't realize I could cut the old ones off! It wasn't until another member told me he went through the same routine that I realized it.
The only hassle with removing and replacing was the nuts were really frozen on there. Now I have to get some line wrench's to complete the job. I have been putting a little Ford hi temp anti seize on them in hopes I will be able to remove them next time. This is a picture of the distribution block before replacing with the classic tube lines.

Hopefully classic Tube will make it right but what a waste of time…I should have just bought a roll and bend it myself.

I was really hoping this kit would work but I think CLASSIC TUBE has really let me down with the accuracy of my order.
I will continue to update as I find out more.
 
#14 ·
Update on CLASSIC TUBE BRAKE LINE KIT FOR ZJ 97 w/ABS

:grin2::grin2::grin2:

They have decided to refund the entire purchase including shipping. I am a happy camper about that and will correct my facebook postings. I can not find where I asked a question on twitter about why things didnt fit properly.

Here is a copy of the emails between myself and Classic about parts not fitting.

From: Rick Sheltra [mailto:ricksheltra@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 8:00 AM
To: Larry Ralston
Subject: brake line kit

I'm not sure if this got sent or not so I am resending. Tuesday

Hey Larry,
I hope these pics will help'

IMG_0898.JPG
I took these out and installed the classic tubes. They fit perfectly.

now from the P/V to Dist Block
here are the classic tube I recd

IMG_0901.JPG

below is a pic of the lines on mine

IMG_0893.JPG

You can call or email anytime thanks
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Ralston <LRalston@classictube.com>
To: Rick Sheltra <ricksheltra@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, May 25, 2016 3:08 pm
Subject: RE: brake line kit

Rick
I see what you are questioning, we try to make all replacement assemblies with the rubber flex, and have had good luck them
Should not be a concern.
Thanks again
Larry at Classic Tube

From: Rick Sheltra [mailto:ricksheltra@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 4:32 PM
To: Larry Ralston
Subject: Re: brake line kit

Larry.
I still have the problem of the lines not fitting without adapters. I understand you all use flex hose thats fine but why should I have to put adapters in each connection? and why are they too long and bent wrong?
It has now been over a month I have had my vehicle out of service based on easy fit ss lines from Classic.
I have to tell you I am extremely frustrated with the whole order.
I would like to return what I have not used. That would be everything but the two small lines from the Master cylinder.

Larry I talked to you on Monday and it is thursday....you seemed very eager to help solve problems and took my number and would get back to me. Now you are getting back to me but no answers about the fact the rear line does NOT FIT..

I just don't understand classics commitment to service. The mission statement and ads on the phone while you wait are all about the customer being satisfied. That is not what is happening.

First I had to go through Not being answered on the website then answered by Don ? 2 days later then he dosent write back for 3 days and I write him again. He apologizes and said just call in because he is not at his desk for emails.
I called in and got you and explained my issue. You suggested get an adapter from napa...simple enough I went there they didnt have it. I ordered one from amazon and it dosent fit either. So then this past monday I called you to straiten it out. I thought for sure you were going to help me resolve it however there are no answers.
At this point I have to cut my losses and time and return the unused portion of this kit.

I explained to you that one of the forums thejeepforum.com
had recommended I try you all. A thread has now been started by another member who says I should make everyone aware of what has happened. I was avoiding that and hoping to just solve the problem and report a positive experience.
I can not wait any longer.
Does anyone oversee quality control on orders? I mean I just dont understand. I would have been let go from my job for not responding to a customer. I know you inherited this order as Don obviously did not want to deal with it. No bad feelings towards you as it appears you all don't have enough help in customer service.

Please give me information to return the product for a credit to my CC.

Respectfully submitted
Rick Sheltra

last email received today ....

Rick
Sorry we were unable to meet your expectations. We are going to issue you a complete refund including shipping charges. There will be no need to return any unused parts.
Thanks again
Larry at Classic Tube



It appears it is resolved and now I will try and start this project again. I appreciate the refund from classic tube and hopefully my posting will help improve the process of ordering. I hope so. It seems they have many satisfied customers.

Rick
 
#16 ·
classic tube refunds money for brake kit that did not fit

Hey there UNI. Thanks for starting the thread. Now I am going to try and do thiS again. Not sure how yet. I am going to check out all those links you sent me again. Maybe I will just try and order the brake line I cut off from dist block to rear coupling. The other side of that coupling was not too bad so I could maybe get by... As pointed out by others many times I sure dont want brakes going out.:eek:

It would have been nice if they had a tech that could have worked it out however I guess they are very busy and these small orders get lost in shuffle. Mike had a good experience along with many others.

You would think they would want to know all this and perhaps improve small order taking or just dont take them.... I guess we will see

This forum sure has some power...I thought I would be out that money and Classic Tube has come through with refund. I have a lot of wasted time but now I can start over...as the posting appears to have made the difference 3000+ views is a lot.

I will update my plan on how to proceed. I am going back to read all the great comments and links thanks to all
HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY TO ALL OUR VETS!
RICK
 
#17 ·
For the original author of this thread, you may want to edit the first post for people searching the internet to see if classic tube is a reputable company, you can edit it with a note at the bottom like:

EDIT (Today's Date): For future note, classic tube has refunded the full purchase price.
 
#18 ·
I have kind of mixed feeling on this Mike and glad the Classic Tube SS kit fit your Wrangler well with no problems. I'm also glad they refunded Rick his total purchase price after a month.

Would Classic Tube refunded Rick's money w/o posting this thread along with a link to his other thread bringing open light to his order problems? Not so sure and they sure didn't try to solve his problems by delaying replies or ignoring him through customer service. And the rep telling him to, "go buy some adapters", sure didn't help the issue.

I'm still not convinced Classic Tube can provide a stainless steel brake line kit for a ZJ w/o having problems? I was hoping someone here who has installed this kit successfully on a ZJ would have spoken up.

I also received a PM yesterday from another member who had real problems with Classic Tube. But this was for an older car rather than a ZJ. But they still couldn't get the order correct even though they said they'd have no problems filling the order.

Is Classic Tube reputable for giving a full refund on a problem order? Yes. Can they give good customer service in a timely manner and provide a quality brake line kit for a ZJ? No, at this time and still open to more positive examples for a ZJ.
 
#19 ·
Full refund is in process for this order

Uniblurb; Is Classic Tube reputable for giving a full refund on a problem order? Yes. Can they give good customer service in a timely manner and provide a quality brake line kit for a ZJ? No said:
I would have to agree. If I was in the business of fixing cars old or new I would expect better customer service. I read on facebook about a service shop that had to wait weeks for brake lines causing major customer problems for his business. In my case first Rep was not very helpful and second rep tried his best to apologize for first rep however he didnt follow through. It appears they do not have the ability to handle these smaller orders as far as manpower.

I am sure they have the proper equipment to manufacture these lines as they have many satisfied customers However they need to review the ordering procedures and improve model information on website. It is not very helpful for finding my model. (97 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD 5.2 engine with ABS Dana 44a axle)

If they are going to offer brake lines for all vehicles maybe they should look at the ordering process and find where the breakdown is.

I am by no means a mechanic and very new to brake lines so maybe they are used to just dealing with real mechanics and not us newbies.

I am borrowing a complete brake tube bending kit and flair maker from a friend and try to get this job done later this week
rick
 
#20 ·
Well, I assume what happens is that they have a database of many cars where the proprieter of the business pain stakingly measured the lines to get an automated machine to whip out the lines quickly. Then a person puts the fittings on at the last step on the assembly line.

I am also certain, that like many american businesses, once that outstanding individual that built the business had semi retired, the company was left with a less than competent staff. Probably along the lines of this speculative quote: "yeah, i'm not going to measure it, its probably pretty close to this other vehicle we have in the database".

I've seen so many companies go this route, usually because the administration is not willing to hire new competent staff at competitive rates. The owner is done with work, They just coast to failure. Chinese manufacturers attempt to pick up the slack (and they are getting better at it, which is really the scary thought).
 
#23 ·
Just installed new brake lines on my 96 ZJ. Suggest getting a tubing bender. For the front lines, I took the original lines and started at one end bending. I then taped the two ends together and proceeded to make the next bend. Worked out very well. Be aware of the metric bubble flares going into the ABS pump (HCU).
 
#24 ·
The one sold by eastwood is really nice. But I would have to make it do something else than brake lines. Cooking or making fishing lures,lol.
 
#25 ·
re starting brake line repair

OK so now I have to get my brake lines done.
I borrowed a brake line kit so i could complete the job.
As I was getting ready to start I recd an email from another brake line company offering pre bent lines.
So I said what the hell the other side of the brake lines looks perfect..no rust or leaks. So I decided to order just the line i needed.
So I ordered from the dist block to the rear connection before the split for the rear brakes. It came in 1 day and fit perfectly. The line came in two parts one from the dist block down to where it connected with a barrel type connector and then the long stretch from that point to the rear. (had to bend that long run as it ships easier bent in half)
I am now all hooked up and ready to start to try and bleed the lines. I am going back to the postings and see which method to use. I think the slow way will work for me. just let gravity distribute it and open bleed valves till i see some fluid :grin2:

The name of the company that provided the tubes is SS Tubes or also called "FINE LINES" The CS person asked questions on my model and immediately gave response and price with shipping. I recd the item the very next day and it fit perfectly.it cost about 65$ shipped.

I will keep this updated as I go.

Rick
 
#26 ·
Excellent news, please update us with how things fair.
 
#28 ·
brake line done now bleeder screws are rusted in place

:crying2:
another hurdle in the brake line novel.......
I went to remove the bleeder screws (after spaying them with PB and a couple of good hits to try and loosen them up. It seemed to be a 3/8" thread however I just could not get them out. Next I tried to use one of those grip tight sockets and that grabbed it so good it snapped it right off. So now I have a stud in the caliper. OK removed caliper and .... now I will just use one of my screw extractors and take it out and go buy some speed bleeders and be done with it!:smile2:
wrong again screw extractor broke off in the bleeder valve. I tried to use another screw extractor to remove the screw extractor that broke off but it aint gonna happen!

By The way that was the right rear i tried first. Then I went to the left rear and same thing..... rusted so bad even with a days worth of pb and some hits it wont budge!
Ok on to the front...front right came right out front left is seized like rear.

At this point I am looking at AA for replacement calipers...
They dont look expensive but I dont understand the differences yet.

UPDATE TODAY.........

Well I just went and picked up new calipers from AA. I talked to some cs rep on chat and he gave me a couple codes and I paid 18.95 ea for the back and 27. ea for the fronts.
So I put them all on and replaced the bleeder valves with auto bleeders.
then i filled up the m/c and put cap back on and made sure all bleeders were closed. I Pumped the pedal a few times and fluid started to leak from the connections where the brake line enters the caliper.
I think but I am not sure there is supposed to be what looks like a copper or brass washer on the inside of that connection... That is where the leaks are. Does anyone remember if there is supposed to be a washer in there?
I dont remember seeing any however it looks like one was there.

I had to give up for the night but I will take some pis tomorrow and post them.
Everything else is ok just the connections to the calipers.

Another note.

Auto Or Speed bleeder valves listed on AA are NOT auto bleeders. If You read the reviews it states it dosent auto bleed.glad I saw it before buying
 
#29 ·
Yes on the washers,two on each caliper. One on each side of the banjo bolts. They usually come with the calipers.
 
#30 ·
Hey coralman thanks for the tip on the washers. There were two washers with the caliper bolts so I thought they went on with the bolts. As I look at it it dosent look right so I will take those washers out and put them on the banjo bolts. Do the bolts that hold the caliper require washers? everything was pretty rusty on the old ones but i think there were washers there too.
I guess that is why I have the leaks those washers must be what keeps it from leaking.... how does a brass washer stop the fluid from leaking? I guess it gets compressed so tight it works :confused:

I have to take a break from repair today and drive to cumberland, Md to get registration for the new (to us) pontoon boat. DNR really sucks as the only facility is over 100 miles away.
Ill be back to try and get my ZJ on the road tomorrow. Have a great day! and 4th of July
rick
 
#31 ·
Caliper replacement mistakes I have made

I am so in experienced and have made so many mistakes I feel like I need to point out the dumb a** things Ive done.:eek:

so as you can see from previous posts I lost a couple of washers so let me start there...

The new calipers came with 2 bolts and two copper washers. Since I doint know any better I thought well they must go with the caliper bolts so that is where I put them and tightened them down. I put in the brake fluid line with only one washer on one side and had plenty of leaks...coralman posted I needed two washers on that connection so I went back and took out the washers i mistakenly put with the calipers ( note the calipers do not require a washer the bolts have a washer type head that pushes against a metal spacer in the rubber boot)
another point that might be noted...the caliper bolts that are included with the Advanced Auto calipers (OEM parts) are a smaller size then the originals. Since the originals were in fine shape i used them and not the new ones.

So now I found myself with severely damaged copper washers for the connection of the brake lines to the calipers. Everything was closed of course so I fixed the ones I could and used a couple of drilled out wheat pennies and I am back in business:smile2: Probably broke some law but hey they were even softer then the original copper washers!
So next time i will realize the washers are actually for the caliper brake line and not the bolts in the same bag.

Another big mistake I made was the boxes that the calipers came in were not actually marked right or left. I ended up reversing both sides and had to remove them and start over.
In hind sight I should have noticed that protecting the threads for the brake line screw were a small cap on each one . red and blue. I guess that is right and left. I wouldnt know because I dont do this for a living. A mechanic would probably have know that. SO I got a chance to remove and replace the calipers twice LOL

now I have started the bleeding. I am going back to read all the info from uniblurb and others so I can figure out what I am doing wrong.

I put the brake fluid in the mc and opened the right rear bleeder and pumped till i saw some fluid then tightened it up (By the way these are autobleeder valves....) then I went to the left rear and then right front and left front. Brakes came up a little bit but not enough.
I had to take a brake (break) sorry :D its so darn hot out I need to wait until later tonight to try again.

I will continue to post as I progress
thanks to all for the help as always
Rick
then i went
 
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