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Unread 10-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #16
MrObvious
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if you're quick to sell, why not rent a car for a week... (cheaper then a "money pit"), drop the tranny (with all your friends and some beer), dry her out, and replace the seals. You have done the oil, now do the tranny. Not saying we are similar by any means, but my tranny is leaking, my output shaft to my rear drive shaft is leaking, my front pinion seal and possibly bearing is bad, I have another oil leak (might be rms again)... It's a jeep that 15+ years old... you come to expect these things. But I love this damn thing, lol just think about it... Is dropping a tranny (3 days TOPS for your work), in all honesty it's not as hard as you may think, take your time, enjoy it with your buddies and you will learn quite a bit. And in the end you will learn and APPRECIATE the work you will accomplish!!

REMEMBER.. If you can READ you and WRENCH!!

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Got it stuck. It's still stuck. It's so stuck I could call insurance and say it was stolen and no one would ever know. It's so stuck I don't know anyone with a capable enough 4x4 to even to to where I got stuck to winch or yank me out.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #17
Uniblurb
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Bummer! Most likely the trans leak is the front seal and not all that expensive to have someone replace it. If fluid is still red it may be worth it. But you have to do what you feel you have to do. Good luck!
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
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Unread 10-20-2012, 07:18 PM   #18
x1n54n3x
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Alrighty, talked to the only mechanic I trust in town (they can be shady in small mountain towns, they know you need them) and he explained to me what is up with my trans. The leak is coming from the front and is not only red. This means, he told me, that it is most likely my transmission oil pump failing. This is why I thought it was an oil issue- the trans fluid coming out was discolored, making me think it was a rear main issue. The torque converter is most likely also fowled because of the pump failure.

TL/DR? I need either a transmission service (inspection of the torque converter and replacement of the trans oil pump) or I need a complete trans rebuild or I need a donor transmission and a transplant. In either scenario, a transmission needs to be removed, and then installed, translating to roughly 7 hours of work (7x90/hr= ~$630) This price assumes I provide a working transmission and it is a simple pull/install. That being said, I am considering sourcing my own transmission from a donor car and hat tip to MrObvious, I will consider removing my trans and replacing it with a donor trans.

Major obstacle number 1- I have never done anything this complicated before. I had considered the rear main replacement one of the hardest jobs I would undertake and now the rear main is something I would do "while I'm down there, just because it makes sense".
Obstacle number two- I had mentioned winter is coming. Storm is supposed to roll in on Monday night. Temps well below freezing, not to mention the abundance of white stuff that is expected to fall. Since I don't have a garage, nor do my friends, this complicates things immensely.
Obstacle number 3- The closest I could expect to source a transmission is either Reno, NV (4+ hour drive) or San Bernadino, CA (5 hour drive).

What should I do? Sell as a mechanics special? Afterall, all it needs is either a trans repair or a replacement trans. Should I undertake the replacement myself after this first storm rolls through? (The long term forecast is never accurate, while I would love a ton of snow, it would make any type of job like this impossible for me) There could be a break after the storm and they may not be. Mammoth gets a lot of snow once winter kicks in to gear, if this is just a early season storm, it would give me a window to work on the Jeep, but if it is not just an early season storm, snow will remain on the ground until at least May- two years ago it sat until August.

In a pretty crappy spot.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 11:59 PM   #19
Uniblurb
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Guess you need to ask yourself if your 94 is still in reasonably good shape? Engine still runs good, no wobble/suspension problems, not rusted bad, etc.? So with the front of the trans leaking were you adding fluid, it ran low, does it slip? Regardless, if the fluid smells burn't and/or is brown that's burn't clutch material in the ATF which calls for a rebuild or JY unit. Not sure about the front pump diagnosis since clutch materials will start working on the seals, like the front one.

Pulling/installing a tranny/transfer case is not as hard as you think, especially if can get help from a buddy, and there's plenty of threads around here on it. Doesn't take any special tools although a rental trans jack which bolts on the pan is nice. But most don't use them.

At about $2K for someone to rebuild it is likely out of the question. With a JY unit there's a warranty for usually 3 or 6 months but doesn't include labor. You would need to have a front/rear seal before installing.

Are you sure there aren't JY's in your area which might not have a tranny? Did a search and saw some but maybe further away than I thought.

Now I can see where the weather/heavy snows could cause a problem. But I'll say I've done some extreme repairs to our family's 4 Jeeps in nasty winter weather and don't have a garage either. And you should try doing repairs working on frozen snow covered gravel covered with cardboard! LOL.

If you're willing to tackle the job we'll help guide you through it. Your call.

PS. my daughter lives in Solana Beach just N of SD. Just a tad warmer there than where you are.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 03:09 AM   #20
x1n54n3x
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My 94 is in pretty good condition mechanically, barring this issue.

I talked to a guy in my complex and he said there was a yard about 2 hours away in pearsonville. He also let me use his air tools- gotta love that. I'm going to quit acting like a puss, source one (if that yard has one, fingers crossed) and replace mine. This is all given there's some sort of break in the snow. If it just keeps snowing and stays below freezing then it's going to be really tough to bring myself to lay under there for hours at a time doing something that has potential to be insanely frustrating. If I get decent weather for a couple days then I'll track down a donor trans.

That being said, the job has now turned into a bit more than I had planned on because if I'm pulling the trans, I may as well do the rear main, oil pump and oil pan gasket. If I'm doing all of that, I may as well look at upgrades. What are some TC/trans junkyard upgrades I can look for? I'll research em, but can you point me in the right direction?
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Unread 10-21-2012, 04:46 AM   #21
Uniblurb
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Now that sounds more like a man who lives in the mountains! LOL. Nice that JY has air tools to remove one and only 2 hours away.

I'd stay with the stock tranny you have and not exactly sure what transfer case a 94 5.2 has? There's a red tag above the fill plug on the TC that will tell you and the tranny should have a number on it too. Others here should be able to tell you in you have the 249 and should swap it out with a 242 like mentioned in the below thread. But if you want to save money just go with both stock units you have and just replace the tranny. I paid $350 for a JY 242 and know prices are higher in CA.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/t...-np242-685644/

Once you get your FSM there's a whole lot of info in it to help you. Others hopefully will offer some input on any possible upgrades for your year. Good luck and will be back on later.

BTW, I live in the woods on top of a 900' ridge and have worked in the parks/woods my whole life. A propane tank with a heater on top sure comes in handy when working on things in the winter.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 08:11 AM   #22
Foundrydude
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If you're sketchy about the trans swap I sure wouldn't add a rear main to the job unless it REALLY needs one.

Think about getting a pair of kits for the push lock transmission fittings. Old ones tend to leak after being disturbed.

Good luck
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Unread 10-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #23
JrMechanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x1n54n3x View Post
Alrighty, talked to the only mechanic I trust in town (they can be shady in small mountain towns, they know you need them) and he explained to me what is up with my trans. The leak is coming from the front and is not only red. This means, he told me, that it is most likely my transmission oil pump failing. This is why I thought it was an oil issue- the trans fluid coming out was discolored, making me think it was a rear main issue. The torque converter is most likely also fowled because of the pump failure.

TL/DR? I need either a transmission service (inspection of the torque converter and replacement of the trans oil pump) or I need a complete trans rebuild or I need a donor transmission and a transplant. In either scenario, a transmission needs to be removed, and then installed, translating to roughly 7 hours of work (7x90/hr= ~$630) This price assumes I provide a working transmission and it is a simple pull/install. That being said, I am considering sourcing my own transmission from a donor car and hat tip to MrObvious, I will consider removing my trans and replacing it with a donor trans.

Major obstacle number 1- I have never done anything this complicated before. I had considered the rear main replacement one of the hardest jobs I would undertake and now the rear main is something I would do "while I'm down there, just because it makes sense".
Obstacle number two- I had mentioned winter is coming. Storm is supposed to roll in on Monday night. Temps well below freezing, not to mention the abundance of white stuff that is expected to fall. Since I don't have a garage, nor do my friends, this complicates things immensely.
Obstacle number 3- The closest I could expect to source a transmission is either Reno, NV (4+ hour drive) or San Bernadino, CA (5 hour drive).

What should I do? Sell as a mechanics special? Afterall, all it needs is either a trans repair or a replacement trans. Should I undertake the replacement myself after this first storm rolls through? (The long term forecast is never accurate, while I would love a ton of snow, it would make any type of job like this impossible for me) There could be a break after the storm and they may not be. Mammoth gets a lot of snow once winter kicks in to gear, if this is just a early season storm, it would give me a window to work on the Jeep, but if it is not just an early season storm, snow will remain on the ground until at least May- two years ago it sat until August.

In a pretty crappy spot.
This makes zero sense, and your mechanic is just looking for more money.

The only oil in your transmission is red transmission fluid. It doesn't matter if it's leaking out of the front pump or the rear seal, no particular leak is going to change the color of the fluid.

With that said, signs of a front pump failing include delayed gear engagement and partial engagement of the torque converter clutch. Does your transmission shift fine and not act like a manual in reverse? If so, your pump is fine.

Leaking from the bell housing area can be one of three things: Front pump seal (99% chance this is the problem and is the most simple), front pump gasket and O ring (rarely cause a leak unless they have been disturbed), or your torque converter has developed a crack.

All are easy fixes once the transmission is dropped.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 11:42 AM   #24
MrObvious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrMechanic

This makes zero sense, and your mechanic is just looking for more money.

The only oil in your transmission is red transmission fluid. It doesn't matter if it's leaking out of the front pump or the rear seal, no particular leak is going to change the color of the fluid.

With that said, signs of a front pump failing include delayed gear engagement and partial engagement of the torque converter clutch. Does your transmission shift fine and not act like a manual in reverse? If so, your pump is fine.

Leaking from the bell housing area can be one of three things: Front pump seal (99% chance this is the problem and is the most simple), front pump gasket and O ring (rarely cause a leak unless they have been disturbed), or your torque converter has developed a crack.

All are easy fixes once the transmission is dropped.
Agreed! Once you drop that bad boy it's all right in front of you. Do yourself a favor, take your time and save some money you can live with a rental for a week
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Got it stuck. It's still stuck. It's so stuck I could call insurance and say it was stolen and no one would ever know. It's so stuck I don't know anyone with a capable enough 4x4 to even to to where I got stuck to winch or yank me out.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 12:47 PM   #25
x1n54n3x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrMechanic View Post
This makes zero sense, and your mechanic is just looking for more money.

The only oil in your transmission is red transmission fluid. It doesn't matter if it's leaking out of the front pump or the rear seal, no particular leak is going to change the color of the fluid.

With that said, signs of a front pump failing include delayed gear engagement and partial engagement of the torque converter clutch. Does your transmission shift fine and not act like a manual in reverse? If so, your pump is fine.

Leaking from the bell housing area can be one of three things: Front pump seal (99% chance this is the problem and is the most simple), front pump gasket and O ring (rarely cause a leak unless they have been disturbed), or your torque converter has developed a crack.

All are easy fixes once the transmission is dropped.
Well this guy isn't "my mechanic" per say. I've only been to his shop to ask questions, he has never been paid by me to do any work, he knows I do most everything myself. Secondly, he doesn't do transmission work, he would just be able to drop/install. I trust this dude and so does everyone I've talked to about his shop.

The 94 does NOT shift fine as it is. It used to just slip occasionally as the trans fluid would leak a little bit- I would top it off and keep an eye on it and then it would shift perfectly. Right now, shifts are delayed (if it shifts at all) and a few times I've had to come to a stop, let everything chill for a minute and then try again to get ANY gear to engage. Keep in mind I've only driven it twice since the massive leak, one of those times was from my buddies house yesterday back down the hill to mine. (we towed it with tow straps up to his place.)

The red transmission fluid is highly discolored- this had me confused for a while as I had thought there were two different types of fluid in there because what was coming out was so much darker than the fluid I put in. He (mechanic) had explained to be that was because the clutch or torque converter was was burning up, leaving crap in the fluid.

In either case, I'm still faced with dropping and installing (repairs or purchase of a JY trans notwithstanding) the transmission myself...Not paying for a shops hourly labor to do that, the entire ZJ is pushing it's own value at this point.

@Foundrydude- if the rear main is leaking (fact) and if I have the trans out, wouldn't it make sense to take care of that while there? I really don't want to ignore one problem because there's a bigger problem being dealt with if I have the opportunity to more easily repair the less pressing problem.

@uniblurb- I wasn't aware that a 242 would be that much more $$, maybe I'm fine with another stock unit...unless I happen to come across an upgrade at a decent price.

I'm researching today where to find a donor. Last few hours of decent weather, so I'll be carless for at least a week. No worries though, I'm within walking distance to work and Mammoth has a good transit system for the mountain. Time to shred.

Last edited by x1n54n3x; 10-21-2012 at 01:11 PM..
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Unread 10-21-2012, 01:21 PM   #26
x1n54n3x
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I've tracked down an entire parts car in Reno for $500. Waiting for the seller to contact me back, fingers crossed.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 01:39 PM   #27
Kevinyj95
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****e too bad you didnt live near me my friends got one hes parting out. Offered me the trans and eng for 500$. This was a 4.0 though not a 5.2. I have a yj I was considering swapping. A transmission job isnt a hard as you think. Ive replaced a few trannys in driveways. Look in the right places and you might find one for as low as 300$ craigslist is good. Dropping the tranny doesnt get you any closer to the rear main still have to drop the front end and pan. The darker tranny fluid is burnt from overheating the pump wont work with a large leak in the tranny. Or you ran to low on fluid and it got cooked. But without the correct amount of tranny fluid in there she wont shift right anyways. If you have a leak like you say that me be your issue. But if you do get rid of it that 5.2 is worth some money part it out. Drop the Tcase drop the tranny replace the tranny drop the front axle and replace the rear seal. Looks like a day to a two day driveway job maybe 500$ depending on what you pay for the tranny. Swap is easier than a rebuild. Shops will rape you regardless. Never trust any shop. Enless there friends of family.Regardless what others opinions are. If people were smart enough to know the person was a scumbag he would be out of buisness. Some of the best mechanic conn artists are the ones people trust the most. Not sayying all but most.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 12:05 AM   #28
Uniblurb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x1n54n3x View Post
@uniblurb- I wasn't aware that a 242 would be that much more $$, maybe I'm fine with another stock unit...unless I happen to come across an upgrade at a decent price.
Actually the $350 I quoted for the 242 TC may have included a $50 core charge. So could have been around $300 w/taxes. One of the more expensive JY's around with some units on a shelf. Also in the big city where they charge more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by x1n54n3x View Post
I've tracked down an entire parts car in Reno for $500. Waiting for the seller to contact me back, fingers crossed.
Guess the most important question to ask is why is it a donor ZJ to begin with? Sure don't need another bad tranny and if the engine blew, or was running real bad for a while, may have caused some stress on the trans. But could still be good and with any used parts it's a crap shoot.

So would you just go there and gut what you need/want then junk it? With the distance involved surely it would be way too expensive to get it back to your place.

In doing some searching your 94 5.2 TC is most likely a 249 and transmission is a 46RH. You probably already figured this out.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 10:57 AM   #29
x1n54n3x
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I have a buddy in Incline Village (~35 miles from Reno) who said I could get the car running at his place, then I'll drive it to Mammoth from there. I have not heard back yet, hopefully it being a weekday will enable whoever to get back to me and at least let me know if the 96 is still available. Oh, I should probably figure out what trans/TC are in a 96 5.2 Limited..

It's dropping pretty good, probably looking at around 2-3 feet by Thursday. Next storm is forecast for the tail end of next week. Very discouraging. It also wasn't fun walking to work this morning while it was blowing sideways. At least I've got my new Northface jacket.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 11:50 AM   #30
MrObvious
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I have a 96 5.2 limited, its the 46 tranny and 249 t case.

Good luck to ya bud!
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Got it stuck. It's still stuck. It's so stuck I could call insurance and say it was stolen and no one would ever know. It's so stuck I don't know anyone with a capable enough 4x4 to even to to where I got stuck to winch or yank me out.
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