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Unread 08-03-2011, 11:52 PM   #16
jenniferny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
It will always take more torque to remove the lugs . The taper is designed to kinda , dig into the wheel , it distorts the alum/steel to the direction the lug goes tightening it up . Therefore , making it lock into position until forced off . Over torquing will show extra wear on the rim holes , I've seen some pretty gouged holes before .
FSM says 85-115 . Personally , I go 115
Always retorque after 1-200 miles
I am aware of the fact that it takes more to loosen them, which is why I after I tried unsuccessfully to loosen them I tried to tighten them to see how much torque it would take to move the nut and at 150 ft lbs it would not move and when I tried to loosen them I tried with I am sure a lot more than 150 ft lbs with my breaker bar and they would not budge. If I gave everything I had to try and loosen it and it still would not move and trying to tighten them the wrench just clicked at 150 ft lbs I wonder what the actual torque was that they were put on with. What ever it was it was way to much.

This time after they are put on with the correct torque and are re-torqued after 100 miles I am going to wait 2 months and see how hard they are to loosen to see if it is this hard then too, or if I am able to loosen them myself without a problem. If I can then I will know that they were way over-torqued this time.

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Unread 08-04-2011, 12:52 AM   #17
jenniferny
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After reading some of the posts about how it is harder to remove lug nuts after they have been tightened and had been on a while I decided to try something. I went out to my Jeep and went to the same wheel. I took my torque wrench, set to 125 ft lbs. and tried to tighten the lock. At 125 ft lbs the wrench just clicked. I then took my breaker bar and tried to loosen the lock. It was definitely tight, but I was able to remove it without much difficulty.

I decided to carry the experiment further. I went to every wheel and tried to remove every lug nut. I was not able to remove even one! Next I took my torque wrench and went to each lock. With it set to 125 ft lbs I tried to tighten each lock. The wrench just clicked at each lock when set to 125 ft lbs. Next I went back to each lock and tried to loosen them. I was able to remove every lock. Since I had insisted that every lock be put on and torqued using a torque wrench, in the past other shops that had tried to remove the locks that were put on by this shop using the impact wrench broke the key TWICE, I knew that they were at the correct torque. This tells me that my lug nuts were put on at well over 125 ft lbs of torque and every one had been way over tightened.
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Unread 08-04-2011, 03:40 AM   #18
CrazyMacaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technohead View Post
NO. The whole point of anti-seez is to reduce friction which in turns allows you to stretch the stud the proper amount with LESS torque.
I disagree, the whole point of anti-seize is to prevent corrosion and seizing of threaded fasteners. It's primarily an anti corrosive, not a lubricant even though it has some grease in it.
How often do you smear anti-seize on a rusted bolt to help loosen it instead of lubricating/penetrating oil, and how often do you spray things down with oil before tightening them instead of using anti-seize. Would you use anti-seize to pack a bearing or lubricate a race?

Also if a stud requires a specific amount of force to be exerted on it to stretch a certain amount that amount of force is the same whether it's lubricated or not. Lubrication does not change the properties or strength of the stud. So, if that stud needs the nut torqued to 100ftlbs to exert the correct amount of force then wet or dry the nut needs 100ftlbs of torque. The only thing lubrication might do is make it a smoother twist until that 100ftlbs is achieved so the pulling force on the stud is correct.

Just as a side note - the best anti-seize has more metal than grease and there's a few different kinds. Zinc is best against corrosion and has an adequate heat rating for lug nuts and most other stuff (700 or 800 degrees I think), nickel and aluminum have a temperature rating about 3 times higher and are better for stainless and exhaust work.
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Unread 08-04-2011, 02:58 PM   #19
Candymancan
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would it matter if one side is torqued to say 110 and another is torqued at 80 ? I know when i did a tire rotation i torqued mine at around 100-110lbs. My friend and I have been working on the Jeep replacing boots and checking out the rear diff and stuff and he took some of the tires off and torqued them at 80 with his impact gun. Problaby a stupid question but i just want to know.

Which reminds me i gatta losen my lug nuts and torque em on the tire that peice of crap mechanic messed with during my inspection.. he tightend them with his impact gun and a normal socket..
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Unread 08-04-2011, 03:33 PM   #20
jenniferny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candymancan View Post
would it matter if one side is torqued to say 110 and another is torqued at 80 ? I know when i did a tire rotation i torqued mine at around 100-110lbs. My friend and I have been working on the Jeep replacing boots and checking out the rear diff and stuff and he took some of the tires off and torqued them at 80 with his impact gun. Problaby a stupid question but i just want to know.

Which reminds me i gatta losen my lug nuts and torque em on the tire that peice of crap mechanic messed with during my inspection.. he tightend them with his impact gun and a normal socket..
I am not positive about this, but it would seem that as long as the lug nuts on each wheel are torqued within spec that is OK, and I believe that each wheel should have the same torque on each lug nut to prevent warping. If all are torqued within spec and each lug nut on the same wheel is torqued to the same torque it should be OK, but I am sure that if I am wrong someone on here will correct me. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this board.
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Unread 08-04-2011, 09:15 PM   #21
ratmonkey
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Only matters targe nuts on each wheel are the same. Side to side doesn't matter. You're trying to get even clamping force on the rotor.
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Unread 08-04-2011, 09:21 PM   #22
KJK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMacaw View Post
...Also if a stud requires a specific amount of force to be exerted on it to stretch a certain amount that amount of force is the same whether it's lubricated or not. Lubrication does not change the properties or strength of the stud. So, if that stud needs the nut torqued to 100ftlbs to exert the correct amount of force then wet or dry the nut needs 100ftlbs of torque. The only thing lubrication might do is make it a smoother twist until that 100ftlbs is achieved so the pulling force on the stud is correct.
This is not correct. 100 ft.lbs. of torque on lubed threads versus dry threads will result in greatly differing clamp forces and stretch of the fasteners.
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Unread 08-12-2011, 09:33 PM   #23
jenniferny
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Final resolution, almost

Update:

Dunn Tire in Lockport, NY is the location that has now over torqued my lug nuts 3 times and have broken 2 wheel lock keys trying to remove the over-torqued locks. I went to the Dunn Tire in Niagara Falls, NY this time and they could not have been any nicer or more helpful. The manager was terrific. The technician that worked on my Jeep tried to use an impact wrench to remove the lug nuts but quickly found that was not going to work. He then got a long breaker bar and they still would not budge. Next he added a 5 foot long floor jack handle on to the breaker bar and after about 3 tries had all but one removed. This last one with two people pulling on it finally rounded the lug nut and removed the chrome cap on the McGard Lug Nuts. Next they put on a heat coil to expand the lug nut so they did not have to use a torch and ruin the wheel. After multiple tries and using a 'cheater' socket that was pounded on the lug nut with a hammer, rounded what was left of the lug nut and he said that he could not get it off. Another technician was assigned the task. He started with an air chisel and quickly moved on to a oxy-acetylene cutting torch and burned off the remains of the lug nut and the entire wheel stud. Doing that removed the finish on the wheel and I am going back at the end of August and they are going to have a wheel specialist come in and he is going to refinish the wheel for me. Has anyone ever had this done??? If so, how were the results?? Did the finish last and look good????
It is about 25 miles more to drive to the Niagara Falls. NY Dunn Tire, but that is where I am going from now on because the manager there is completely focused on the customer and I can not say enough good about how I was treated at the Niagara Falls, NY location of Dunn Tire and how terrible I have been treated at the Lockport, NY location of Dunn Tire. The last time I was at the Lockport location the store manager herself handled the problem. When she did my lug nuts were put on so tight that it took what I described above to remove them. She went out of her way to tell me how her technicians would never over-torque a lug nut or a lock and how she was going to make sure that my wheels were put on with the correct torque. The torque they used was correct if you believe that it should be necessary to use a 5 foot long floor jack handle and a cutting torch to remove them. If I sound a little negative it is because I am. They had already broken 2 wheel lock keys because of over torquing and this time, because I complained about how they had over torqued them, they got me back by putting them on so tight that it took the cutting torch to remove one and a 5 foot floor jack handle to remove many of the others. Because of their attempted revenge it is costing the company that owns Dunn Tire a lot of money to make it right, and that is sad.
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Unread 08-12-2011, 10:20 PM   #24
5.9 ANDY
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sounds like a crapy situation all around.

i would avoid the old shop, period... the new shop sounds prety good to go, yea, its a bummer that had to torch it... but hey, welcome to the jeep world.
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Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
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