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Unread 09-18-2012, 01:15 AM   #1
Uniblurb
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Injector upqrade questions

I've read most of the below thread which is very good. But since I don't know a whole lot about fuel injectors I was getting confused on the flow rates vs pump psi, rich running engines in some swaps, etc..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...p-how-1305456/

I'm still running the OE Siemens 53030778 injectors, have a couple leaking, and the idle is slightly rough on my 96 4.0 w/49psi fuel pressure.

In checking the local Pick-n-Pull (40 miles round trip) they want $8/per injector and I'd have to buy a $16 rebuild kit plus shipping. So I'd end up with $66 in parts. I'm tempted to go with the below "Bosch EV6 4 Hole Upgrade Fuel Injectors" for $99 with free shipping and a 1-year warranty.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-BOSC...8dd3c7&vxp=mtr

These Bosch 700's or 710's are supposed to be a direct fit for replacing the Siemens 778's. I've been trying to compare the differences in the specs in the below table/chart.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

The lbs on the Siemens is 23.2 while it's 18.25 on the 700-710's. Also the 778's are 49psi while the 700-710's are rated 43.5psi. Flow rate on the 778's is 21.86 and on the 700-710's it's 18.25.

I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me if these Bosch injectors would work? The specs from these don't look a whole lot different than the 703's, but there again I don't know how close to OE you have to get? I'd go for the 703's if that would be a better choice but I'd also like to find a good deal on them.

Thanks for the help!

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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
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Unread 09-18-2012, 08:12 AM   #2
HighLonesome
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From what I understand, all injectors are rated at 43.5 psi unless otherwise stated. There is a conversion formula out there somewhere...I think speedfreaks. The conversion factor is not a linear function. If the flow number is in the ballpark and the resistance is the same, they should work.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 11:15 AM   #3
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Thanks for the input HighLonesome. Actually those Bosch EV6 injectors I'm thinking about buying are yellow Ford 700-710's with an ohm rating of 14.2 compared to 12 for OE 778's. But I read in that swap thread as long as they're 12 and up it's OK. Also read where they may pulse a little faster at 14.2, increasing the fuel flow, which may be a good thing since they're rated at 18.25 lbs/hr compared to 23.2 for the OE 778's.

I found the conversion formula and hope I plugged the numbers in correctly and not backwards? It states, "Enter the current fuel pressure at the injector inlet. Enter the anticipated or improved fuel pressure at the injector inlet.". Then you plug in the flow rate of the new injectors.

I used the original fuel pressure of 43.5 since that is what the 700-710's are rated. Then I entered "New Fuel Pressure" as 49.0 psi since that's the pressure of the OE injectors and my 96 4.0. Plugged in rating of 18.25 lb/hr of new injectors.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html

New flow rate is 19.4 lb/hr and 203.6 cc/min. Hope this is close enough to the OE specs of 23.2 lb/hr and 243.8 cc/min? Since the flow rate is adjusted through my reman PCM, and pre-set for 23.2 lb/hr, I hope it can adjust itself for these new injectors with a lower flow rate.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 11:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
Thanks for the input HighLonesome. Actually those Bosch EV6 injectors I'm thinking about buying are yellow Ford 700-710's with an ohm rating of 14.2 compared to 12 for OE 778's. But I read in that swap thread as long as they're 12 and up it's OK. Also read where they may pulse a little faster at 14.2, increasing the fuel flow, which may be a good thing since they're rated at 18.25 lbs/hr compared to 23.2 for the OE 778's.

I found the conversion formula and hope I plugged the numbers in correctly and not backwards? It states, "Enter the current fuel pressure at the injector inlet. Enter the anticipated or improved fuel pressure at the injector inlet.". Then you plug in the flow rate of the new injectors.

I used the original fuel pressure of 43.5 since that is what the 700-710's are rated. Then I entered "New Fuel Pressure" as 49.0 psi since that's the pressure of the OE injectors and my 96 4.0. Plugged in rating of 18.25 lb/hr of new injectors.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html

New flow rate is 19.4 lb/hr and 203.6 cc/min. Hope this is close enough to the OE specs of 23.2 lb/hr and 243.8 cc/min? Since the flow rate is adjusted through my reman PCM, and pre-set for 23.2 lb/hr, I hope it can adjust itself for these new injectors with a lower flow rate.
It's not close enough for your needs.
That's why it's the 703 swap, not the 700 swap for our vehicles.
the Jeep ecu can usually account for +/-25% in fueling needs. no need to Max it out when it should be at zero ltft.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 11:45 AM   #5
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My xj run just fine with the orange ford injectors out of a 4.6 v8 idk the flow rate
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Unread 09-18-2012, 12:02 PM   #6
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Uniblurb, if you just want to fix the leaky injectors, I have (8) 53030778 injectors laying around from my 5.9 swap. 90,000 miles on them. PM if interested.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 02:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
It's not close enough for your needs.
That's why it's the 703 swap, not the 700 swap for our vehicles.
the Jeep ecu can usually account for +/-25% in fueling needs. no need to Max it out when it should be at zero ltft.
Bummer, was afraid of that, and must be why the rebuilt 703's are twice the price on the net. Thanks for the input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLonesome View Post
Uniblurb, if you just want to fix the leaky injectors, I have (8) 53030778 injectors laying around from my 5.9 swap. 90,000 miles on them. PM if interested.
Thanks for the offer, appreciate it, and may send you a PM.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #8
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I got my 703's from a pull a part out of Dodge Neons. I paid about 35 bucks for them plus the 16 dollar rebuild kit. It's very easy to rebuild them. I pulsed them with a 9v battery and some wire with alligator clips and carb cleaner.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 04:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
I got my 703's from a pull a part out of Dodge Neons. I paid about 35 bucks for them plus the 16 dollar rebuild kit. It's very easy to rebuild them. I pulsed them with a 9v battery and some wire with alligator clips and carb cleaner.
Believe I read that in one of your posts Polka. So are there certain year Dodge Neons, or other Dodges, you need to find for the 703's? Also does the fuel rail come off, and the injectors are removed, like on the ZJ's? Thanks!
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
Believe I read that in one of your posts Polka. So are there certain year Dodge Neons, or other Dodges, you need to find for the 703's? Also does the fuel rail come off, and the injectors are removed, like on the ZJ's? Thanks!
Yes. There are certain year neons and minivans that have the 703's. I just checked all of them to be sure. There was one neon that had them but wasn't one of the ones listed to. There are 2 or 4 bolts for the fuel rail, those little retaining clips, and yes you just use a screwdriver to gently pry the rail up after it's unbolted. Have a rag handy because there will be some old nasty gas coming out. They just pull out of the rail. Don't bother getting the o rings out of the rail. Also cut one of the injector plugs with several inches of wire to make a injector cycler for cleaning. All in all it took about an hour and a half to put the new o rings, filter baskets, and pull the old ones from the ZJ and install. I cleaned them months prior to this and just got lazy about installing them.


Here is a complete list for the 0280155703, 2.0L or 2.4L:

CHRYSLER CIRRUS LX (1995 - 1997)
CHRYSLER CIRRUS LXI 1997
CHRYSLER SEBRING JX (1996 - 1997)
CHRYSLER SEBRING JXI 1997
DODGE CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE NEON (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON SPORT (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS ES (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH BREEZE 1996
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON SPORT 1995
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)
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Unread 09-18-2012, 06:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
Yes. There are certain year neons and minivans that have the 703's. I just checked all of them to be sure. There was one neon that had them but wasn't one of the ones listed to. There are 2 or 4 bolts for the fuel rail, those little retaining clips, and yes you just use a screwdriver to gently pry the rail up after it's unbolted. Have a rag handy because there will be some old nasty gas coming out. They just pull out of the rail. Don't bother getting the o rings out of the rail. Also cut one of the injector plugs with several inches of wire to make a injector cycler for cleaning. All in all it took about an hour and a half to put the new o rings, filter baskets, and pull the old ones from the ZJ and install. I cleaned them months prior to this and just got lazy about installing them.


Here is a complete list for the 0280155703, 2.0L or 2.4L:

CHRYSLER CIRRUS LX (1995 - 1997)
CHRYSLER CIRRUS LXI 1997
CHRYSLER SEBRING JX (1996 - 1997)
CHRYSLER SEBRING JXI 1997
DODGE CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE NEON (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON SPORT (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS ES (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH BREEZE 1996
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON SPORT 1995
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)
Thanks for all the info/models with 703's! Great tip of cutting off one of the connectors for use with a 9V battery for cleaning. I read in the injector swap thread where you can use a piece of clear fuel line attached to a plastic syringe to check to see if the injectors are leaking under pressure. Do you think 6 of them would do it or is it worth buying 1 extra in case you get a bad one?

I'm probably going to have to go to the Pick-n-Pull anyhow to pickup a rear door lock assembly since I checked w/the dealer and just one is $120-$150!
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 06:31 PM   #12
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I would probably get all the 703's I could find just incase one or more were bad. If you don't use them someone will want them.
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Unread 09-18-2012, 06:41 PM   #13
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OK, thanks, appreciate the advice.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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